Child on child

[Wipoz]

Personally, I think that if you have to ask, it crossed the line. Curiosity and experimenting happens, yes. Age difference is a big thing to take into consideration (age mates are considered 1-2 years apart as opposed to not being age mates), as well as age. Where I live, a child can be considered a perpetrator of sexual abuse by Child Protective Services at age 10. Under 10, they can only ever be considered a victim within that system, even if they are the ones initiating. In my line of work, I saw experimenting between children often, but much more rarely between siblings. The two times I encountered experimenting between siblings (even just alleged) the parents were required to monitor them at all times, even at night, whether that required bedroom door alarms, cameras, or what have you. Because it was wrong and needed to stop.

 

[Mero]

Personally, I think that if you have to ask, it crossed the line.

It feels like it was wrong but I have told myself for so many years that it wasn't a problem it feels too difficult to really feel that it was and have any faith in that. I get stuck in this battle and conundrum wanting both to be true.

He would have been 11/12 when it started and 13/14 when it finished, he is 3.5 years older. We played on our own a lot in a big house although I have feelings from other places that things happened outside the home too, other beds and places that feel wrong but it is hard to be sure. We were found. Nothing was ever said.

 

[Buho]

Nothing was ever said.

That's a common enough response by parents, but it sure didn't help either of you.

 

[Noda]

My older brother was 3.5 years older than me. I was 4, he was 7.5. I remember screaming. This happened until I was 11. I threatened to kill myself, and followed through by trying to down a bottle of my grandmother's blood pressure medicine. You were not old enough to give consent. That is it. It wasn't talked about at my house, if fact, when I told my mother he was hurting me, she said, "show me the bruises. Come back when you have bruises". I was mortified about the whole thing and I would never have showed her anything down there. To this day she buys me things and gives me money, so when I bring up anything from my past, she says, "how can you say that after all I've done for you."

 

[Mero]

My older brother was 3.5 years older than me. I was 4, he was 7.5. I remember screaming. This happened until I was 11. I...

Thank you for sharing your experiences, I am sorry you had to suffer through that and it wasn't recognised despite valiant efforts on your part. It builds a very difficult path and causes so many problems.

My brother could be violent, but didn't leave bruises. That just leaves me thinking that it wasn't that bad. It's a tangle and a mess.

 

[Guwed]

I was a step parent in a situation like this years ago. the mother and father of these children thought that their being naked together (up to the age of 10 and 12) was innocent. I refused to let it happen when I was around. Kids of that age should NOT have been showering together, being naked in any way. It was disgusting to me and I let that be known. There were many fights in the house about it, and unfortunately tied me to that family for longer than I should have been because of a misguided sense of protecting the girl.

Her parents were neglectful. They sexualized her. They had problems which ended up being her problem because nobody but me gave a sheist about it. It makes my blood boil. For you, for her, for any young girl who is placed in this type of situation.

 

[Mero]

I let that be known

Well done for standing by your opinion. For me it was certainly not behaviour that was encouraged, it was something done in private (secret?), but when we were caught it was never mentioned by our parents. Now that feels as if it has done as much damage as the events themselves.

 

[Hoju]

I was severely sexually abused by my older brother. For me, the situation was clear. Although it started out for sexual reactivity for him, it quickly became coercive and manipulative. But to be honest, it didn't make a huge difference to me -- it caused severe symptoms no matter what. So while he was also a child (two years older), it was definitely sexual abuse, not just curiosity and play. In my opinion, a brother soliciting sex and or sexual favors from a sister isn't normal. I've had a hard time figuring out how to feel -- he was a child too, and it's confusing and complicated, and I still have a hard time validating my own emotions about it all, especially surrounding my own role in it all. I also really wanted to please my big brother, and I was scared of him, so I really relate to what you're saying. I still struggle with the shame it all. But I'm slowly learning that it wasn't my fault, no matter what, and the same is true for you. I think I would call what you went thru sexual abuse. But that's just my opinion. I'm sorry that you went thru all this :(

 

[Mero]

What you say really relates, it is hard to read.

I also really wanted to please my big brother, and I was scared of him

This feels very true. It certainly felt like a mix of many different emotions which makes it confusing to decipher now. I knew I was scared of him, but in those moments he wasn't actively threatening. Was I scared of him in those moments? Maybe not. It's hard, the memories of how it started aren't really there. It feels as thought he created and orchestrated these situations but without all the information it is hard to be sure. I find it hard to have any belief or faith in the memories I do have, I've ignored them for so long but a rational side of me now can see it shouldn't have happened, that seems to feed the shame.

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences, I am sorry you understand and struggle with these feelings too.

 

[Gujole]

This feels very true. It certainly felt like a mix of many different...

I totally understand where you’re coming from. Sometimes I wish my brother was outright violent and forceful – it would leave less room for me to doubt whether I “wanted it” or not, or whether it was abuse or not. I still struggle with this issue. A lot. My mixed feelings about him -- he was both my best friend and my abuser -- don't make it any easier. And it’s compounded by the fact that, like you, my memories of the trauma are incomplete and foggy, and I often doubt their legitimacy at all. But here are a couple things I’ve learned.


1) I know, for sure, that the things that happened to me with my brother were devastating to me. They changed and shaped me, and they left me with severe PTSD symptoms and deep emotional scars. Did my brother mean to devastate me? I don’t know for sure. Probably not. But he still did. And when I’m in therapy and trying to figure all this confusing stuff out, I try to remember that I’m not in a court of law or a forensic interview. It’s not my job to try to figure out what was going on in his head, whether he should blame himself, whether he should be punished, whether he meant to, if he even knew what he was doing, any of that. It’s not my job to assign blame. It’s my job to understand how the experiences affected me and how to heal from them. That’s more than enough for any of us to do.

2) Even though my brother wasn’t physically threatening, or explicitly intimidating me in the moment of the abuse, there was a very real threat for me – the loss of love and relationship (with him, and with my parents. I was sure my mom and dad would be furious.), the loss of identity (in my family, I was the “good girl” who never caused any problems. Telling anyone about what happened would change all that.), and the loss of the last bit of stability in my already unstable home. Those threats were real enough. So even though I may not have been scared of him in the immediate moment of the abuse, I was scared of the consequences of anyone finding out. So I played along not because I wanted sex, but because I wanted peace and stability and love. I don’t know what your family dynamics were like, or what the implicit threats were for you, but I’m guessing they were similar, and I’m sure they were there. There’s a threat for every kid who’s being abused – even if it’s just that it feels like the whole world will fall apart if you talk about any of it.

I hope this is helpful in some way. <3

 

[Mero]

I hope this is helpful in some way

It is really helpful, thank you. It helps to know this struggle is part of the process. It feels a little reassuring the threats aren't necessarily always direct or violent. During this time I think we were friendly, we played together. I am not sure when the violent behaviour began but after these sexual incidents stopped I lost any of the nicer times, if he engaged with me it would be through bullying or aggression.

1) Yes, it definitely feels that these things have shaped me and affected me deeply. Like you say I don't know what he was thinking or what his intentions were, but most often it felt like it was to hurt me, to be in control and to assert his power. It seems as he got older his sexual desire was paramount to any other thoughts of the situation, of right or wrong, or me. I want to feel healed from these experiences but I know that until I am able to except them as abuse I am always going to be held back. The gaps in my memories, the uncertainty in my emotions lead to doubt and huge fears of getting it wrong. I am trying, I am pushing harder than ever before but still struggling.

2) These thoughts feel very conflicted. It felt that what was happening was very normal, I don't remember questioning it, I just went along with it, at the start there even could have been thoughts that it was fun, a grown up game. But at the same time I knew I definitely didn't want anyone to find out, there was a part of me that knew it was wrong, that I would get into trouble and I didn't want to upset anyone. Home was again very conflicted. On one hand very stable but on the other my dad had just left for another relationship, my mother found that unbearably hard, we all tried to carry on like nothing was happening. I don't remember it crossing my mind to tell anyone but the silence around when we were caught told me never to talk about it.

Even writing this sends my thoughts spiralling. I don't know what is true and what is not. I don't know which version of what happened is the right one.

 

[Cicote]

Yeah, I totally get the not knowing and doubting your own validity and perspective. So many mixed emotions, and it seems like there's always a voice inside of you wispering "It's your fault. You wanted it. It wasn't abuse because you allowed it. It's your fault. You shouldn't be so upset." It's so hard. My heart goes out to you.

I've just had to practice talking back to that voice and I'm gradually learning to see those thoughts as products of abuse, not truth. For what it's worth, it sounds to me like you were abused for sure. Even if he didn't "mean to," even if you feel like you didn't react like you were being abused in the moment, the fact that he put his needs for sexual gratification above you makes it abusive. It sounds like he used you as a tool to gratify himself. To me, that's abuse. Additionally, since he kept it a secret, that's a sign that he knew it was wrong. So even if you thought of it as fun, a game, at first, it's still abuse. I'm so so sorry that it happened to you. And I'm sorry that it was a "don't ever talk about this" topic in your home. That just makes everything so much worse.