BPD Confused, c-ptsd comorbid with BPD???

[maryiscontrary]

I have some severe complex trauma due to abuse in childhood as well as in adulthood. I am also on the mild autism spectrum. I have also struggled with long bouts of and psychotic breaks, possibly due to a schizoaffective issue.

Surprise, surprise! have recently discovered that I have dissociative identity Alters. I dissociate for many hours a day, and I am in aggressive treatment to alleviate this.

Just for your information, I am making awesome progress! I am processing a lot of this s***, and I do have moments of delicious clarity.

Here is my question. Do I have BPD as well? There are times when I feel very hopeless and suicidal, but a lot of this is related to the hopelessness of my disability, extended periods of unemployment, extended periods of severe poverty, lack of support, lack of access to mental health care in the past, and intimate betrayal. Being extremely sensitive on the autism spectrum already, and enduring abuse on top of that has really been my biggest problem.

However, I do not have fears of abandonment. It is me that leaves because I cannot take the dysfunctional abusive b******* others seem to throw at me and over stimulation. I isolate and dissociate a huge part of the day.

I know that some bpd's have problems with lying and manipulation in order to maintain relationships. I am autistic, and I'm pretty much have always maintained some level of integrity. It seems like because I have trouble reading intentions, I'm the one who regularly seems to be lied to and taken advantage of. Thus, I have to constantly cut people out of my life who are toxic. I have had to end so many toxic relationships with people lying to me and misleading me. I may have a lot of dysfunction, but one thing I'm sure as hell not anymore is codependent. I learned how to overcome that horrible disease hard and fast.

I have never been alcoholic. I have never cheated on a partner. I have had problems with relationships because of people lying and stealing, or trying to take advantage of me. But not the other way around. Despite my problematic issues, I have usually been the one that people have relied on. I took care a both of my in-laws before they died, as well as my mom and my grandmother before they died.
I have had very long standing friendships of many decades, but I have had problems with attachment. I might just fall away for months at a time and come back.

I have friends who are borderline, and I just don't relate to some of the symptoms that they have. But according to some clinical definitions, I'm really not so sure.

However, I really get hopeless about my apparent mental illness, my inability to work around people in a profession without getting triggered or bullied by ruthless office politics. I have a science PhD and I am very gifted because of my autistic obsessions. Yet, I have lived much of my life in poverty despite a solid work ethic.

To be sure, my family is definitely a pile of cluster B's, quite self-destructive and quite malignant. But I do not relate to their dysfunction either. I've had to cut contact for a number of years for my own sanity. I basically pity them. It's like dealing with 5 year olds.

On the other hand, I've gone through periods of my life where I've been promiscuous. I have never cheated on a partner or slept with another's man unless it was a poly situation. And that was only two times. However due to my heightened sensitivity, I have been horny as hell during my single times in my life. However, it was never to try to avoid abandonment. I believe that this was just a phase, as I'm pretty much celibate now.

It's because of my autistic hypersensitivity that I'm horny as hell. I have never emotionally manipulated a person into sex as far as I know , it's just raw dirty horniness with friends with benefits or no strings attached. But it was never to validate myself.

Despite all this dysfunction, I have actually recovered quite a lot and have a lot of happy days, though I have my share of dark ones as well. I am healthy and take care of myself.

If any of you folks can help me untangle this, I would really appreciate any input.

Thanks ahead of time and bless you all.

 

[Friday]

A) Why do you think you might have BPD?

B) Clearly no one here can diagnose anyone else, even if they have the authority to do so face to face IRL, this is just the Internet. Similarly, self diagnosis is rife with problems. Moreover, personality disorders are huge diagnoses that even IRL aren’t -or shouldn’t be- entered into lightly. The DDX is massively important, and even more complicated than the baseline of ruling out other disorders and medical conditions for less complicated and profound disorders. Taken in the spirit of sharing info / kicking knowledge, however? (This sounds like that, talk to your doc. // This doesn’t sound like that -to me in my experience- but if you’re concerned, talk with your doc) Here are some diagnosis basics...

1. In order to be diagnosed with any disorder one has to have the entire constellation of symptoms, not simply a few of the symptoms.

2. All disorders share symptoms.

As an example...Feeling hopeless and suicidal? Isn’t unique to BPD. It’s found in Depressive Disorders, Mood Disorders, Trauma & Stressor Disorders, Eating Disorders, etc. (As well as people with no disorder at all. But since you’re already diagnosed with at least one disorder that carries a high risk of suicide? One would be less inclined to include that in searching out a different disorder to make your make sense.

Consider going to the doctor with a fever. Then being diagnosed with Strep Throat. You most likely do not have the 500+ other illnesses that also include fever as a symptom. Especially when you don’t have the other symptoms those illnesses require.

3. Each and every single disorder I’ve ever heard of has some version of the following in its list of criterion “Unless better explained by another disorder or condition”

Being promiscuous and suicidal? Simply fails to meet even the bare minimum number of symptoms required for a BPD constellation. Even less so when both of those aspects are already explained by the disorders you’ve already been diagnosed with).

IE What you’re describing doesn’t sound anything like BPD to me, in my experience, but if you’re concerned you might ask your doctor about it ;)

 

[maryiscontrary]

Thank you for your service Friday. I have had several therapists mention this, but honestly I do not think that they were trained enough to know the difference between C PTSD and borderline.

I have studied the nine traits of BPD, and have read extensively in the scientific literature, being an autistic nerd that I am. I think that for me personally, I have enough of an overlap with 5 of the nine symptoms, but then again C PTSD could be this too. I find that getting an affordable therapist that really understands the dynamics has been impossible for me. I go in with my autistic obsessiveness for knowledge to these therapist and I find that even so-called trauma therapists are not well schooled. At least the ones that I have gone to, which is about 20. seriously, I have struggled massively to get a decent therapist that really understands this.

I mean, I have had severe emotional dysregulation. I have had to cut people out of my life, but it's usually due to abhorrent behavior that I am not going to enable.
I do have problems with psychosis, I do have problems with dissociation. I do have altars for which I do not always remember popping up. I do have attachment issues for which I am aggressively working with.

However, the trauma I have been through has rendered me very distrusting of people in general, as well as a severe distrust that our higher power does not want to do me in. I have to fight against feelings that our so-called God is out to destroy me. This type of existential crisis is definitely that of c-ptsd.
Anyway, I wish I could find a good therapist that really understood this.
Again Friday, thank you so much for your input


I thoroughly welcome anybody else's input on this. Bless you all.

 

[Ronin]

I mean, I have had severe emotional dysregulation. I have had to cut people out of my life, but it's usually due to abhorrent behavior that I am not going to enable.
I do have problems with psychosis, I do have problems with dissociation. I do have altars for which I do not always remember popping up. I do have attachment issues for which I am aggressively working with.

Hi there Mary.

Thing is, emotional regulation issues are common to many MIs, & neurodivergences are quite known for them. Just because the brains process information differently.

So that alone could be well just autism talking.

Who diagnosed you with psychosis / are you sure it was not just overload / autistic meltdown going on for days or weeks, and the like?

Ditto, dissociation is fairly baseline for neurodivergences.

Having a crisis of faith in a highly religious country, where public rhetoric is full of religious pseudo reasoning and reinforcing reasoning as about God, daily, is not quite unusual, or by default an existential crisis with religion requiring separate dx.

Existence of alters is also quite common for higher functioning end of the spectrum disorders... similar, not making D.I.D., not making other personality disorder, just being part of being on the spectrum.

 

[maryiscontrary]

Hi there Mary.

Thing is, emotional regulation issues are common to many MIs, & neurodivergences are quite known for them. Just because the brains process information differently.

So that alone could be well just autism talking.

Who diagnosed you with psychosis / are you sure it was not just overload / autistic meltdown going on for days or weeks, and the like?

Ditto, dissociation is fairly baseline for neurodivergences.

Having a crisis of faith in a highly religious country, where public rhetoric is full of religious pseudo reasoning and reinforcing reasoning as about God, daily, is not quite unusual, or by default an existential crisis with religion requiring separate dx.

Existence of alters is also quite common for higher functioning end of the spectrum disorders... similar, not making D.I.D., not making other personality disorder, just being part of being on the spectrum.

Ronin, thank you so much for your very thoughtful answer. I've been locked up in the nuthouse and on and off because of psychosis and suicide attempts. it probably has to do with my oversensitivity, but when any human being is under stress, psychosis can happen for a myriad of reasons.
I asked the very experienced and wonderful folks here because the treatment for these very different issues is very different. For instance, treatment for C PTSD is different than treatment from BPD. I will say that probably a lot of folks here need both.
And I say this because basically all my immediate family is off off-the-chart cluster B. It could be possible that I might have fleas from this. But like I said before, I sure as hell don't enable any of them, and I had to go no contact for many years. My father got very ill, and we had to start communicating again for practical reasons.
I am not aware that d i d is actually part of the autism spectrum except as a response for unrelenting stress. I guess anybody with any constitution or diagnosis would crack and dissociate to "Extreme Measures" with the type of ass kicking that a lot of us go through.

One thing interesting to know is that when a person on the spectrum is surrounded by cluster B malignants, you learn to develop a mask in order to hide the obvious aspie symptoms such as rocking, jumping, melting down in an obvious autistic way, hiding deep interests, forcing oneself to make eye contact and to pretend like one is neurotypical to avoid ridicule and attack, especially from my father The stress of having to do this alone broke me, because I just could not be me without being even more abused. I know I'm not the only one and I know I'm not unique with this issue.

One of the big differences that I have researched between BPD and C PTSD is the loss of faith that God, humanity, or this reality is on your side. That this reality exists just to kick your ass sideways. I definitely have that and I'm working on getting my faith in humanity again so I am able to continue in my recovery. this loss of faith in humanity, the goodness of the world, or whatever is far less common with someone with pure BPD.

It's very interesting how these disorders overlap. And sometimes it's very difficult to tease the details apart from one another.

I will say this. I have lived in South America for 5 years, and going to the Jungle to consult with the shamans, as well as the plant medicine ayahuasca and the cactus San Pedro has really aided in my healing. I was so beat down by life, by my family, by my exes, by my poverty and crushing disappointment with my career, and by the stress-related physical illnesses , that I probably would have taken my life without these.

thank you so much again. I am still open for other opinions if anybody has any. Thank you so much for this wonderful forum

 

[Ronin]

I am not aware that d i d is actually part of the autism spectrum except as a response for unrelenting stress

No and not what I said, though.

I said that having *alters*, or dissociative experiences of that sort, is.

One thing interesting to know is that when a person on the spectrum is surrounded by cluster B malignants,

May be... But it also sounds as very common to abuse survival response. :) IDK I would think much on it as spectrum vs. other disorders question, where abuse mechanisms explain the same thing just as well, and may steer you to working on what is more mattering / going on in life, better.

I probably would have taken my life without these.

Good on you, & glad you had them in the time needed. :)

 

[maryiscontrary]

Okay guys, I found the paper by the NIH which distinguishes C PTSD from BPD. I want to direct your attention in this paper to table 1.
it appears that for me, my issue is with C PTSD, rather than BPD. I hope this helps other folks

Distinguishing PTSD, Complex PTSD, and Borderline Personality Disorder: A latent class analysis

 

[Friday]

which distinguishes C PTSD from BPD

Yep.

It drives me a little crazy when people try and conflate the 2 things together. CPTSD is NOT just another way of saying BPD. Nor vice versa, BPD is not simply misdiagnosed CPTSD. I can see why people do it (If all of their CPTSD symptoms break along borderline kinds of ways, it’s easy to believe everyone else’s does, as well. Not dissimilar to the divergence between fight/flight, and people who pull really strongly in one direction not being able to recognize people who pull really strongly in the other direction. Even though it’s the same durn adrenaline response.) Facts are, just as the paper references... whilst there are people with CPTSD with strong borderline traits, there are also people with CPTSD with few or no borderline traits whatsoever.

I’d been wondering if you had been looking at BPD following misinformation that CPTSD & BPD are essentially the same thing.

 

[maryiscontrary]

Yep.

It drives me a little crazy when people try and conflate the 2 things together. CPTSD is NOT just another way of saying BPD. Nor vice versa, BPD is not simply misdiagnosed CPTSD. I can see why people do it (If all of their CPTSD symptoms break along borderline kinds of ways, it’s easy to believe everyone else’s does, as well. Not dissimilar to the divergence between fight/flight, and people who pull really strongly in one direction not being able to recognize people who pull really strongly in the other direction. Even though it’s the same durn adrenaline response.) Facts are, just as the paper references... whilst there are people with CPTSD with strong borderline traits, there are also people with CPTSD with few or no borderline traits whatsoever.

I’d been wondering if you had been looking at BPD following misinformation that CPTSD & BPD are essentially the same thing.

Well, I have dug into the scientific literature, and there seems to be a lot of confusion there. So so I wouldn't call it exactly misinformation.

However, some of the descriptors for BPD are a bit vague, thus causing confusion for a lot of professionals and investigators alike.
For instance, because of psychosis, dissociation, poverty, and lack of support, and disappointment with my limitations, I often feel suicidal. I have been locked up two times for this. This could lead someone very easily to believe that I had BPD. However, it wasn't for manipulation, it was because life can be very hopeless sometimes.

I dissociate a lot, and recently found a number of Alters. Well, this is also a Hallmark of BPD.

I feel often times empty and lonely, again because of my poverty, and my limitations. I have incredible education and A Beautiful Mind. There's no logical reason other than my disability that I should be poor. Who wouldn't feel like this?

But like I said before, a big distinguishing factor is that people with c-ptsd do not trust that life is there to help them. For me, I often feel like life is there just my life is there just to Kick Me Down. And I don't trust people, because they lie all the time and manipulate. This is not a Hallmark of BPD.

So I think that the science of medical community are very confused themselves.

 

[Friday]

So I think that the science of medical community are very confused themselves.

CPTSD still isn’t technically a diagnosis, although the ICD11 preview came out last month (and it’s been up and running for review for a little over a year? Don’t quote me on that, my time sense is off & it could easily be more/less) it won’t be finalized until 2021, touch wood. So there is that. It’s hard to not be confused without an agreed upon definition.

One of the reasons it made it INTO the ICD, though, is because it’s not just a different name for another disorder... and because of studies like the one you linked which clearly show that.