General Confused

[LuckiLee]

Because combat veterans are trained to fight. They don't have the flight response.

 

[Ronin]

Not really certain why a combat vet sitting at a table is much different. Their trigger -- they need to figure it out without yelling and screaming at others. To me, that lack of rationality is them acting like a child and not a responsible adult.

I think here is a conflation of multi things.

Why be different, if you are trained for one response as highly preferable and saving your neck over and over again, the go to will be different.

Conflating anger (emotion, response, part of training) vs. abusiveness (yelling and screaming at others, or, lashing out without purpose and useful moving the others somewhere)

Just because something is not situ appropriate, does not make it childish.
(And to muddle the waters more: Not all childhood reactions would be childish.)

Responsibility is a whole other question.
It may well be even the lashing out stressed up vet IS being so out of it at the moment...precisely... because they ARE being responsible. And would not be so lashing out if things were not catastrophe and dark and fire and death, but clicking as anything else than, less than.

And, frankly, equating child and irresponsible does a disservice to all of the very responsible children taking care of themselves and their respective packs, families, communities.

 

[Sweetpea76]

... And no matter what, I fail to see how it is a supporter's responsibility to ferret out what their sufferer's needs are if their sufferer does not communicate it to to them. Or to know that there is a even a need in general.

We're not mind readers. Personal responsibility is a thing. How about just communicating needs when not triggered?

I get communication break down. My vet has had multiple TBIs, including one decently severe one that gave him cognitive issues. He loses words. He forgets stuff. He still has to tell me what's going on... because all that stuff doesn't erase the fact that I cannot read his mind.

 

[Friday]

Im not sure how much more clearly I can say it.

3 people
3 different trauma histories
3 different reactions to (a supporter) using 1 method (treat them like a child) of responding to them when triggered.

It’s not about what their reaction is to being thought of/treated like a child... it’s about supporters not having a magic wand response / an across the board “right” thing to do when their partner is triggered.

Always expect, in my opinion, that when someone is triggered they aren't in adult mode. Do not treat them as such.

^^^
May work for you.

It not only doesn’t work for Sweetpea’s sufferer, and a lot of others, but makes things worse.

That it makes things worse, doesn’t mean that their reaction is even more wrong.

Essentially... think of the WORST thing someone could do when you’re triggered (start shouting at you, slapping you across the face?), then imagine I said to supporters to always do that... and that anyone who doesn’t respond well to someone doing that clearly needs more therapy (or to be left), because this is THE way to think about / treat someone who’s triggered, doesn’t matter the trauma type, this is how you need to think of it. When it’s the opposite of what works for you, it doesn’t parse, right?

If not treating someone like an adult works? Awesome.
If it not treating someone like an adult makes things worse? Probably shouldn’t do that

There’s no clearly supporters should just do “this”. What may seem like common sense to us inside our heads (like don’t treat me like a child, or don’t start shouting at me) ... isn’t actually common sense, because it’s different for each person, different for different kinds of trauma backgrounds, etc.

I know you said you weren’t going to respond, just making a last ditch effort of trying to explain better, because I clearly missed the mark.

 

[Sighs]

@Friday - loved your earlier explanation. When my vet is triggered he is clearly an adult, highly trained, very responsible Company Sergeant Major. Therefore he verbally abuses the hell out of whomever is around him to make what he feels needs to happen happens right f*cking now goddammit. Is that ok? Hell no, but treating him like a 4 year old sure as shit isn't going to be the right thing to do. In fact, the last time someone tried that (not me - an off duty policeman) that person came within a whisker of being knocked out cold.

 

[Never_falter2]

I hope that does not derail this thread but that is something which is very close to my heart.
Not all vets are lean mean fighting machines. Vets are PEOPLE and like all people they vary.

My vet does not act like soldier when triggered, he acts like a father. For example when he is triggered in a restaurant he makes sure all of us leave it (like any father would, only that most fathers are not afraid of restaurants). When he is triggered by vomit he tries to make sure that it does not contaminate us). So he acts like exactly the person he is now, just very stressed version of that person.

I really do not think it is true what @LuckiLee says that Vets only have a fight response. He has a freeze response, he has a strong avoidance response, he has a strong get-them-out-of-here response, he has a strong continue-what-you-are-doing-while-trembling-and-stressed response. He has a very strong search-for-cellphone response. Actually the first thing he does when startled is often searching for his cellphone.
But he doesn‘t fight, though he admits he sometimes feels angry inside but it does not show.

Actually I do not say this to be mean @LuckiLee and @Sighs, you know how much your answers in here mean to me and that I do not say this to be mean, okay? I think what you are doing is not good for people like my vet, who thinks he is less if a soldier cause he has such a strong avoidance response. He is just trying to keep him and his family safe. There is no shame in feeling such a response, there only is shame in not fighting back against this response.

I really do not know, maybe he really does not have ptsd but something different but this is how I see it.

 

[Sweetpea76]

@Never_falter if he has been diagnosed with
Combat PTSD by a professional I wouldn't question his diagnosis.

Specific trauma, MOS, training, combat experience... lots of things are going to factor into each person's triggers and responses.

But yes... let's keep this thread on topic, everybody please. It has wandered into Combat PTSD, and it really has nothing to do with that.

 

[Never_falter2]

So sorry for derailing the thread. I will start another thread on that topic when I have the time (if nobody starts one before I do).