Could I Be Partly To Blame For What Happened?

[anthony]

I have spoken with Heather privately, and cleaned this thread up from all the nonsense. I will warn any member, agree or disagree, I don't care, but do not derail a thread like this, when a member is putting sensitive information out there with questions, or else I will only ban next time, zero warning, zero post removal.

Heather may wish to put the rest of the information here, she may not... that is her choice. But be warned, there is more to this than above mentions, and neither way is her fault, mine for asking questions, or any other member who legitimately has questions or feedback for Heather. We ask questions about blame to ascertain it, not to have it defended or argued about. Blame is a real part of how we must heal our trauma, and we must know what we correctly own, what we don't, in order to determine acceptance and understanding at the emotional level.

Be warned and think hard before derailing a thread again please!

 

[heavenofcalyx]

Rape while drunk is still rape. It wasn't your fault, Heather, not one bit. *hugs*

 

[Heather]

Thanks heaven - I appreciate that. I accept responsibility for putting myself in that position. For drinking to the point of oblivion - not smart. My therapist asked me what I learned from that experience. I told him not to get butt ass drunk with a bunch of people I don't know very well. Lessen learned. Hugs back. Heather

 

[Heather]

I have spoken with Heather privately, and cleaned this thread up from all the nonsense. Heather may wish to put the rest of the information here, she may not... that is her choice. But be warned, there is more to this than above mentions, and neither way is her fault, mine for asking questions

I've thought about this and since my conversation with Anthony I'm not going to comment. He knows everything that happened that night. We talked about it. That's good enough for me. Reading all 58 posts and seeing how hostile and ugly it got still leaves me pretty shaken up. I come on here for support and to be able to say things w/o fear of judgement or a circus atmosphere. I don't feel like I can do that anymore. I know that a lot of you were defending me and I appreciate that but the whole post got totally and completely out of control. I prefer that people say nothing than have it turn into what it did.

I am not going to say anything more because I don't want this to launch into something huge.

I've said what I've needed to. Thanks again to Anthony for deleting all the nonsense. Heather

 

[Nicolette]

Hope you find some resolution with this Heather and sorry it wasn't here. Maybe you can continue working through it with your therapist.

All the best as it sounds like you have a lot bottled up and are still confused with some of it. It is good to see you can take ownership for your part which is powerful and hopefully you can put the appropriate blame on your attacker - I cannot comment on the rest but it sounds more and more like you were mistreated (raped) and I am sorry that it happened to you.

 

[cherryblossom]

Hi Heather,

I just want to say well done for handling all this with dignity and grace. I too hope you can come to personal resolve with the help of your therapist. I hope, given time, your faith in the forum and the people here will be affirmed.

Take very good care of yourself
CB

 

[Heather]

I stumbled across my journal from '97. It has this incident written approximately 2 weeks after it happened. I'm pretty much to blame for everything that happened that night. I have to own my behavior 100%. There's no way around that.

With that being said I still feel VERY VIOLATED by what he did to me. I think he knew exactly what he planned on doing before he did it. I froze. None of that has changed.

So, this is what happened summer of '97 word for word from my journal:

my roommates boyfriends gave me 2 -3 drinks right in a row but then he stopped and kept giving me shots to do. He put more shots down and after that I was completely "gone". That guy (Rob) told him, "that's enough, she's had enough". Told my roommate and her boyfriend that I needed pizza 'cause I drank all of that on an empty stomach. Supposedly I knocked over the pizza box and "smooshed" it into the carpet. I threw a glass of water up against the wall and I said to my roommates boyfriend (Dave). "Dave, Kelly reallly likes you and she's a true blonde, she's never dyed her hair before - those are her real roots! I also yelled out to Kelly "we are not friends. We are just roommates and I am leaving because YOU are a b*tch" I was sooo drunk. Kelly explained to Dave that I was kidding and it was a joke.

Then Kelly and Dave had to help me to the bathroom. Remember sitting on the toilet with my pants down around my knees and kelly opened the door to see if I was okay. Dave was peering over her shoulder. How embarrassing!!!!!!

Then they helped me into my bedroom. I fell onto the bed and puked down the side a little bit on the pillow and on my stuffed bunny rabbit. Kelly came and gave me some water. Rob came in and suggested I sit up. I said, "I think I'm gonna be sick" He said, "if you're gonna be sick then I'm gonna have to leave because it'll make me sick" I asked him to hand me the bucket and he did. But I told him I thought I'd be okay.

He said, "you'll feel better if you stand up. He helped me off the bed and we were standing there. I turned off the light. Rob said, "I like the light on". But the light was off when I pulled him down on the bed. I took of my shirt, shorts. Said to Rob, "put your fingers inside". He said take off your underwear. He then asked, "do you have a condom?" I said no that Kelly probably had some. Rob was on top of me and we were kissing. I said to take his shirt of and he did. We continued kissing.

This is where things changed. This is where I feel violated by him.
He said, "just lie still". and I said, "okay I will". He raised himself up and my legs were spread open ( I was thinking were we going to have intercourse). He had other plans. He unzipped his pants. His breathing became heavier and heavier. He moved himself up. This is when he shoved his penis in my mouth. He knew what he was going to do! Then he came in my mouth. I froze, couldn't move, didn't like it, didn't want it, didn't expect it.

From the journal entry 14 years ago it's clear I didn't like what he did to me. I was caught by surprise. I was disgusted by it. I brushed it off then and tried to tell myself that it was no big deal.

I have learned a very valuable lesson albeit the hard way no more getting butt ass drunk with guys I don't know at all and expect the outcome to be a good one.

 

[Reclusive]

It's a sad but true thing that we have to be wary when and how we allow ourselves to get drunk. But I think it's obvious, too, that Rob was taking advantage of you and knew it. You still have every right to feel violated and upset - it was not an activity you consented to doing. And that's that.

 

[Heather]

Rob was taking advantage of you and knew it. You still have every right to feel violated and upset - it was not an activity you consented to doing..

Thank you for validating the way that I feel. I think you are right just by the mere fact that he made that statement, "lie still" He knew very well what he was doing.

I go into this victim behavior and do what I'm told by just laying there and taking it. I'm just starting to talk about this in therapy. It's only taken me 20 years to be able to get to this point to be able to discuss it. I guess it's better than never getting there at all.

 

[Reclusive]

Well, he also showed that he knew you were too drunk by saying that you needed to eat something. He KNEW you were too drunk to resist or make decisions - even the making out and stuff was taking advantage of you.

 

[anthony]

This is not rape, and I do not endorse comments eluding towards that arena. Heather clearly admits and owns her part, both are at fault, not one more than the other in this specific situation.

I think it would be far greater benefit to help nut out Heather's feelings vs. providing sympathy to the situation and attempting to align blame onto the male and shift it from both parties.

Drunken, teenage, college, party sex. Not rape, not sexual assault, consensual sex. Consensual sex still can make either party feel abused or violated after the fact, just as this case has made Heather feel, but I do not endorse the commenting of the blame game.

I disagree with the statement of "lie still" also... and the remarks in comments to it, as there was also more to it than posted here. Heather, IMHO, I believe the parts you left out would not endorse the comments made above either. That is just my opinion.

I don't believe you should feel guilty for posting what you have sent me, because if that was the facts of the whole situation, then who really cares now? It was a long time ago in your life, hence why you own what occurred for your part in it, and he owns his part in it... please don't feel ashamed, because I also feel that the way it ends above, it ends favouring you vs. containing the entire truth.

 

[Reclusive]

Hi Anthony. I'm thinking really hard about your post and I'm trying to suss out my feelings about these kinds of situations. I've also been reading a lot of feminist stuff lately, so my point of view might be skewed by that and I'm aware of it.

From what Heather posted, it sounded like she consented to one kind of sex, but not the kind she received. And I know things happen at college parties and the like, and it's the reality of the situation, but it's still not fair that if a girl gets drunk she better watch out, but getting drunk doesn't pose the same danger for guys. Do guys get that violated/used feeling after drunk sex that women do?

Obviously you know more of the story than I do.

I guess I'm just leaning more and more towards a policy of ask before doing, that way there's no confusion or guesswork. Mmmmm... still working through it in my brain. Please feel free to delete or whatever if I'm being inappropriate.