CPTSD & People Pleasing Behaviours

[HomeAlone]

I saw this thread and read earlier posts on it. I to am a people pleaser. I have defined myself this way for a very long time. I've learned to say "no" in many circumstances. It is hardest when I am certain that saying no, or not saying what the person wants to hear is going to make them angry.



This is one of my biggest struggles. Does anybody reading this have ways that they deflect the anger of someone else without turning it inward?

I think the first thing is, AVOID them, and reserve the right to do so.
Keep your senses open for it, an angry person is easy to spot from a distance.
Then, just avoid that person; even if they try to talk to you, they have no legal or other right to stop you.
The best (only) way to win with an angry abusive person, is to avoid them
Also, don't be a hero and feel that you "have to" deal with them; if you sense trouble; before I was diagnosed with CPTSD, I used to give myself a lot of grief for not "handling it in a healthy way" or "standing up for myself" etc, and all the other things people try to push on you. But the fact is that it's simply a no-win situation to deal with abusive people, and nobody has any right to tell you that you "have" to or "should." Those preachy snits have no clue what PTSD is like, and usually they don't care either, they just blame the victim. (My brother even tells me that it's "self-inflicted," when he was a partial cause of it).

 

[HomeAlone]

When a family member invalidated me about my mom's abuse that I'm close to, I immediately got upset but I explained my side. She had lots of excuses for what my mom did, but ultimately, again... I knew it was a reflection on my family member, and I had answers to deflect her 'barbs' because I still had access to all the functioning parts of my brain.

'

I also want to say that in addition to avoiding angry people, it's also important to avoid people who seek to invalidate your feelings and condition; you don't have to answer to them, or convince them. You could give them all the proof in the world, and they can still deny and invalidate you-- often, they just want to blame the victim.

For example, I said to my brother that I had been absused growing up, and he says "how were you abused?"
Obviously this was a rhetorical denial, which was clearly an insult to me, since he was one of the abusers. Now I'd just say "are you denying it, or demanding for an itemized list? Either way, buzz off."

There's a tendency to want to validate ourselves and our condition, and prove that it's not our fault, or that there's nothing we could do; however the invalidator's response will always be that it is your fault, and that there are a million things you could do to fix it. So it's like giving flying-lessons to a fish, i.e. they can't possibly know what they're talking about, they typically just want to make themselves feel superior by talking you down and calling you weak, self-pitying etc.

And here's where it's most important to remember, that AVOIDING THEM IS ALWAYS AN OPTION.
We're continually bullied into talking things out, and "facting our probllems," that avoiding it is somehow unhealthy etc.
Here, it's important to reject such social-bullyng and pop-psychology, and just do what's best for "#1" by avoiding people who are hurtful to you, and not be a hero.
It's absolutely vital to make your own rules, since it's your LIFE; you can consider other people's advice if you want, but don't ever feel obliged to FOLLOW it.
Avoiding a toxic individual isn't like avoiding the dentist if you've got a cavity, or chemotherapy for cancer-- it's more like avoiding sugar or cigarettes that give you those things in the first place, and make them worse.

 

[Philippa]

I can relate to much of what has been posted here, and I'm very grateful to have found you all.

Today I managed to assert in my own mind that I " deserve better" than what I have been settling for...which is a creep of a guy who other women spend a few days with and then never call him again, and he tells himself that they are all "weird" but I think they are just able to see better what I have been making excuses for...that he's a dangerous person, and he has sold himself to me as being someone I can come to if anyone hurts me or hassles me...but he's the one doing the harm!

He disgusts me, and yet I keep sleeping with him...for the cuddles and warmth and the "protection". He is so totally on a different wavelength to me, and has laughed in my face before and called me the most horrible things, which I call him on, but he then says I have no sense of humor and he's only joking...which I know is abuse and tell him, and he just laughs.

I'm trying to be gentle on myself, but I'm messing up all the good work I've done with self-care, by giving him the time of day, let alone sleeping with him. I just don't know what's gotten into me? I know it has everything to do with self-trust and having so much trouble trusting myself and my perceptions after the sexual assaults and all the other dangerous sitches I've gotten myself into, which I can't believe. I'm an intelligent person, and I know it stems from my father and the way he's treated me over the years...as well as the trauma from the sexual assaults. I can't believe the person I've become. I used to be so different to how I am now, and I hate that I've been reduced so much.

I feel vulnerable right now.

 

[Philippa]

I'

'

I also want to say that in addition to avoiding angry people, it's also important to avoid people who seek to invalidate your feelings and condition; you don't have to answer to them, or convince them. You could give them all the proof in the world, and they can still deny and invalidate you-- often, they just want to blame the victim.

For example, I said to my brother that I had been absused growing up, and he says "how were you abused?"
Obviously this was a rhetorical denial, which was clearly an insult to me, since he was one of the abusers. Now I'd just say "are you denying it, or demanding for an itemized list? Either way, buzz off."

There's a tendency to want to validate ourselves and our condition, and prove that it's not our fault, or that there's nothing we could do; however the invalidator's response will always be that it is your fault, and that there are a million things you could do to fix it. So it's like giving flying-lessons to a fish, i.e. they can't possibly know what they're talking about, they typically just want to make themselves feel superior by talking you down and calling you weak, self-pitying etc.

And here's where it's most important to remember, that AVOIDING THEM IS ALWAYS AN OPTION.
We're continually bullied into talking things out, and "facting our probllems," that avoiding it is somehow unhealthy etc.
Here, it's important to reject such social-bullyng and pop-psychology, and just do what's best for "#1" by avoiding people who are hurtful to you, and not be a hero.
It's absolutely vital to make your own rules, since it's your LIFE; you can consider other people's advice if you want, but don't ever feel obliged to FOLLOW it.
Avoiding a toxic individual isn't like avoiding the dentist if you've got a cavity, or chemotherapy for cancer-- it's more like avoiding sugar or cigarettes that give you those things in the first place, and make them worse.

I'm part of a personal development forum at the moment, and there are a lot of people who are practising NLP people who encourage us to not avoid bullies, but to be more "empowered" and stay and work through it...but I think that for some that might be viable, if they feel strong enough and know how best to communicate with someone who is being a bully...and for others, it's just best to get the hell outta dodge,a nd there is no shame in that.

 

[anni]

I wish there were a 'Like a LOT, Holy Hell' button, since I'd click on it. I've been bullied all my life, quite simply. That's not a woe is me, feel sorry for me statement- it is what it is, the world is composed of various types of people and I'm quite easily bullied. Boy do the bullies take a lot of forms, too- they're not all wearing ill fitting tshirts and twisting your arm for lunch money on the play ground. The dynamics are the same- power, leave one feeling powerless, stripped, defenseless, worthless. Their justifications cover a ton of ground and standing up against all of it is shatteringly exhausting when the bullying takes the form of attacking one's core-not even one's physical body. I'd rather be shoved up against a locker- you could at least slug someone and run, then. Certainly, it's a great excercize in self worth to be able to sturdily stand up, counter point for point, face down the bullies every single time. I'm tired, I hurt, and getting out of Dodge just feels better sometimes.

 

[intothelight]

I engage in "people pleasing" behavior, even to the point of my own detriment, because of the lack of self-esteem that comes with abuse. I think (my opinion only) that we look for validation from others, because we cannot validate ourselves.

Sometimes I confuse validation with affirmation.

 

[HomeAlone]

I'

I'm part of a personal development forum at the moment, and there are a lot of people who are practising NLP people who encourage us to not avoid bullies, but to be more "empowered" and stay and work through it...but I think that for some that might be viable, if they feel strong enough and know how best to communicate with someone who is being a bully...and for others, it's just best to get the hell outta dodge,a nd there is no shame in that.

The key is, choose your battles wisely, i.e. don't face a bully you can't handle, or don't want to; you need experience in working up to it in a safe environment, just like any other training for a hostile situation-- like we don't just give soldiers a gun and send them into battle, it takes at least 2 years of simulation and testing.
But pop-psychologists will give you a few techniques, and send you out to fend for yourself; the simply are idiots who don't care what happens to you, and will feel superior by blaming you for the bad result.
For example in school, I would always get blown off if I complained of any abuse, or they'd just tell me something that was basically an exercise of power over me; and so I went through school just sitting there and taking the abuse, and telling myself that I didn't care because that "the intelligent" response; and in my home it was the same way against domestic violence; I simply had no experience in doing anything about it, and I had no freedom to avoid it; and so I'd feel very stressed by it, since I was both a) confined and b) helpless; but now that I have some experience and freedom then I feel a lot safer; however I do still go through constant flashbacks from before.

 

[HomeAlone]

I can relate to much of what has been posted here, and I'm very grateful to have found you all.

Today I managed to assert in my own mind that I " deserve better" than what I have been settling for...which is a creep of a guy who other women spend a few days with and then never call him again, and he tells himself that they are all "weird" but I think they are just able to see better what I have been making excuses for...that he's a dangerous person, and he has sold himself to me as being someone I can come to if anyone hurts me or hassles me...but he's the one doing the harm!

He disgusts me, and yet I keep sleeping with him...for the cuddles and warmth and the "protection". He is so totally on a different wavelength to me, and has laughed in my face before and called me the most horrible things, which I call him on, but he then says I have no sense of humor and he's only joking...which I know is abuse and tell him, and he just laughs.

I'm trying to be gentle on myself, but I'm messing up all the good work I've done with self-care, by giving him the time of day, let alone sleeping with him. I just don't know what's gotten into me? I know it has everything to do with self-trust and having so much trouble trusting myself and my perceptions after the sexual assaults and all the other dangerous sitches I've gotten myself into, which I can't believe. I'm an intelligent person, and I know it stems from my father and the way he's treated me over the years...as well as the trauma from the sexual assaults. I can't believe the person I've become. I used to be so different to how I am now, and I hate that I've been reduced so much.

I feel vulnerable right now.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's psychological compulsion to repeat the trauma as a means of controlling it, as opposed to fearing it happening again by itself; i.e. the fear of the trauma becomes greater than the incident itself, so you want to "get it over with" by making it happen, thus "beating it to the punch," while "learning to roll with it" etc.
Of course this is reacting to the inury, rather than accepting,protecting and treating it-- which might include re-enactment, but under controlled situations.
This is compounded by our being told what we have to "face up to our problems" and "not run away from them;" which is just plain stupid for every stituation, like an oncoming train or an approaching rattlesnake; also there's good ways and bad ways to deal with things-- and the first way to deal wth abuse, is to get away from it, and then maybe learn to deal with it under a controlled situation where you can get some experience. But never give an abuser ANY control over you, that's what creates trauma!

But the key regarding trauma, is to accept the feeling as a rational response to abuse, and not try to fight it or deny it by compensating for it-- i.e.subjecting yourself to abuse, or risk of abuse, being abused in order to "get used to it" or prove you can take it etc-- like I said, don't be a hero. This is a form of self-blame, and the fact is that abuse is NEVER the victim's fault; so it's vital to resist that temptation.

 

[HomeAlone]

I wish there were a 'Like a LOT, Holy Hell' button, since I'd click on it. I've been bullied all my life, quite simply. That's not a woe is me, feel sorry for me statement- it is what it is, the world is composed of various types of people and I'm quite easily bullied. Boy do the bullies take a lot of forms, too- they're not all wearing ill fitting tshirts and twisting your arm for lunch money on the play ground. The dynamics are the same- power, leave one feeling powerless, stripped, defenseless, worthless. Their justifications cover a ton of ground and standing up against all of it is shatteringly exhausting when the bullying takes the form of attacking one's core-not even one's physical body. I'd rather be shoved up against a locker- you could at least slug someone and run, then. Certainly, it's a great excercize in self worth to be able to sturdily stand up, counter point for point, face down the bullies every single time. I'm tired, I hurt, and getting out of Dodge just feels better sometimes.

Bulliies are ruthless social-predators, and it's a no-win situation for victims who aren't wise to them, since they will use any trick to get you; and claim that you started it etc. Even cyber-bullies do this, and I've had them give me death-threats and then say I started it.
And then of course others will blame the victim, since it's easier for them, and makes them feel superior-- and they ust don't care; and bullies are good con-artists who can get others on their side, while making the victim feel isolated, and helpless no matter what you do.
It's no wonder that we've got kids bringing guns to school, as well as Colombine etc; it's just the system's chickens coming home to roost, as schools use compulsory-attendance laws as a license to treat kids like chattel and treat them however they want, turning a blind eye to bullying that goes on, or just playing it down and blaming the victim.

That's why I made a whole web-page about how to deal with bullies at bullyjustice.webs.com , based on my own experience and knowledge; and soand it's the only one that works; everything else is pure B.S., since bullies make a game out of anything that doesn't have the force of law behind it, and those "awareness-programs" are made by people who usually ARE bullies, not victims of them.
With me, it wasn't just school, but home as well, i.e.my parents would just act like I was to blame for "not getting along with people" and "not standing up for mysef" or whatever, and so they'd just force me to go to school no matter what-- and when that failed, they forced me into an institution, where I didn't dare complain, since I knew they'd just keep me there longer and say it ws my fault.
The key is to protect yourself by taking positive action, not just ignoring it or taking it. The website has some good legal info, it's not some pop-psychology site that tells you to "make friends" with the bully or some crap like that; like I say on the website, "enemies make dangerous friends."
And as for bullies being "troubled indivduals--" that's called "criminally insane." I have more troubles than anyone, but I've never bullied anyone for it.

 

[Nora]

'

And here's where it's most important to remember, that AVOIDING THEM IS ALWAYS AN OPTION.
We're continually bullied into talking things out, and "facting our probllems," that avoiding it is somehow unhealthy etc.
Here, it's important to reject such social-bullyng and pop-psychology, and just do what's best for "#1" by avoiding people who are hurtful to you, and not be a hero.
It's absolutely vital to make your own rules, since it's your LIFE; you can consider other people's advice if you want, but don't ever feel obliged to FOLLOW it.
Avoiding a toxic individual isn't like avoiding the dentist if you've got a cavity, or chemotherapy for cancer-- it's more like avoiding sugar or cigarettes that give you those things in the first place, and make them worse.

I agree with this sentiment. Though, I saw my particular case with a family member somewhat differently than this. I hadn't become close to her (my mother's sister in fact) until a few years ago, when she reached out to me. For years, my mother has been telling her outright lies about me and had been my aunt's only source of information about me. And given that my mother did not have NPD when they were growing up, I am not surprised at all that she did not realize the extent of my mom's ability to warp reality. She didn't actually call me any names. I saw this incident much more as her screwing up royally with that statement, but then she did apologize and we moved on. I have been working on assertive communication and in general, for the relationships that I am interested in maintaining, it has made them much better. I expect that in going nearly no-contact with my mother, this will have effects on other family members. I do think it's helpful to recognize that I don't owe anyone an explanation or convincing them of my side, and that I could walk away at any point. In this case I think my aunt was very misguided, in the literal sense of my mother's input, but I don't find her to be a toxic presence. She's actually played a huge role in my healing process and has provided a window into the dysfunction of that side of the family, and this was the first time in a few years of candid conversations about my mother that she ever questioned me or my side. I believe in labeling behavior as toxic without any hesitation, but I think people who are not toxic can nevertheless do toxic things that are worth addressing together and working out.