Depression And Negative Habituation

[cragger65]

I'm slowly weaning off the meds, and I am starting to see things so much more clearly. My mind was so diffused and "limp" being on them, I could never make a dent in my mood with CBT because I couldn't feel any clear connection with my feelings. NOW, it is quite clear to me that the depression stems from my negative mental habits of rumination, self-attack and blame and undermining all attempts to focus upon the positive with shaming and guilt-tripping thoughts. Wow, I can't believe what I have been doing to myself. NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So neat to not only see, but actually FEEL what the Buddha described as the source of all suffering... clinging/holding onto/habituation/addiction. I can only hope this feeling lasts. I'm going to keep trying to see more deeply into this phenomenon, and practice detached observation.

thank you all for listening,
Dave

 

[SunnyBrookFarm]

Dave -

You are certainly tuned into what is going on in your mind and I am quite impressed. Can you explain the detached observation a bit (if you don't mind)? I'm quite interested in this post........

 

[cragger65]

Sunny,

Well, what happens inside my head is that the trains of thought seem to take on a life of their own, and take over my attention. I become so engrossed in struggling with memories that are traumatic to me, and so sucked in, I start to sink pretty quickly. Then the negative ruminations and self blame/critique starts up soon afterward.

Now when this happens, I try to picture these trains of thought as coloured ribbons, and I just try to keep picturing them flowing through empty space, delicate, free, and untangled. They become "outside" of me more, rather than all knarled and twisted up inside of me. Keeping this image in mind, it makes it possible to view the individual thoughts in a detached manner, not investing yourself in the "believing" part that makes me feel so damned bad about myself and my situation. It's just a train of thought, and I'm not buying in, I'm just watching it do its dance in my head. If I stick with it, I can weather a potential storm much more quickly and with much less discomfort.

Does that make sense?
Dave

 

[SunnyBrookFarm]

Dave -

So the rethinking (per se) is related to the negative thinking and self doubt correct? I completely understand what you are saying about the memories overtaking you and making you feel like your sinking - but I also believe THAT part has to be dealt with and then put away (she says - who struggles with this daily - LOL).

But to be able to release the other thoughts - those that make you question yourself constantly - would be quite a relief - because then I suppose you would feel more open to dealing with the memories.

Am I completely off base - or is that somewhat the line of thinking?

I would really like to try this out - but want to make sure I understand the actual goal first - my self-doubt can be quite high (overwhelming to be honest)- in fact - from your posts - I think we think somewhat alike - we just "hide" it well most of the time.

 

[Blues in NYC]

You sound good. Very good.

Word of caution Dave though based on some of the bumps I've experienced recently at a similar point in my recovery: be wary of moments of mania as much as you would be of depressive states and rumination. As I've begun dealing with similar stuff and at moments when I feel that "weight" removed, it occasionally is like letting go of a beach ball at the bottom of the deep end of the pool. The buoyancy is profound and striking. But it is not always sustainable.

But other than that, still sounds great man! Keep it up.

Your repeating of the words of the Buddha are enough to inspire me to get off my behind and into the studio today to get a few things done. Not out of shame but out of a desire to feel a touch of peace and calm. I'll be careful not to overdue it though. Don't want to tumble back into other patterns of workaholism and busyaholism! :crazy:

Thanks again for continuing to share accounts of your recovery with us. I'm really getting a lot out of reading of your progress.

 

[TLight]

Dave! When I was very young (20 or so), I sort of hooked up with an older woman who I traveled with and we lived with a spiritual teacher in New Mexico for a couple of years. We meditated, talking about healing, etc etc. These people were all survivors..........

At the time, I was pretty la-te-da and was enjoying Taos and margaritas........but I witnessed some incredable things with this woman.........I did meditate, but felt like it wasn't very central to my life at that point.

I didn't know I was a survivor at that point............denial? Gee, running around with a bunch of women who were sexual abuse survivors and I thought I was just fine, my Dad just hit me a couple of times.

Well, anyway, then at 29, wammo........major major breakdown after being harassed by men at work and Cynthia, this woman, abandoning me.

I really grasped onto the meditation techniques at that point, but unfortunately I was under too much survival pressure, too many triggering things, and my mind was 'off to the races' and there was little I could do to control it........the chemical stuff was just too strong. I was psychotic at times, stopped sleeping, etc etc..........terrifying nightmare.

But as I've begun healing more and more, over twenty years later.......the meditation techniques and 'watching' what my mind is trying to tell me........I often say, "My mind is out to kill me for sure!"...........I've been using a ton of the stuff I learned way back when.

Even though the experience left sort of a bad taste in my mouth because this 'friend' turned out to be a user (survivors can be a real mess and mess with others)......then she abandoned me several times (I let her back in only to get bashed again)..........still, the techniques, the teachings.........the spirituality I learned was a positive. I believe for sure, looking back, that I was with those women for a reason.

I'm so glad that you are not listening to that monkey brain of yours that is trying to ruin your life! I'm glad you are back with us...........you are valuable, wonderful, wise, probably handsome and a great being to be on the planet!

 

[NarcSis]

Dave, keep positive. We have hurdles to cross and sometimes we will stumble, its okay to stay down occassionally to rest, but getting back up takes courage and strength. It sounds like you have found your way back to harness your courage and strength.

The Dalai Lama has many good teachings that serve to guide us in our path to healing.

I am proud of you.

 

[Seeking_Nirvana]

Hi Dave, I've been doing the detaching technique lately. Not the dissacociation but the detachment. I read about it in a book (which I have so many of I can't recall the name) and I started detaching from small things and I'm working my way up to bigger issues.

I mentally visualize my mother as being my friend's mother, and when I do that I find no fault in her. She is just another person who did the best she could in a bad situation. I kept her there for a couple of days and then took her back as my own mother and I'm feeling different about her now. Less judgmental and irritated. So I'm thinking about doing that again with her and others and every time I bring them back to me I suspect I will find less fault in them.

It's trial and error now because I just started doing it but it seems like it's similar to what you are trying to do.

Take care and keep up the good work
Tammy

 

[cragger65]

Sunny, yes I think we're on the same track. I think of the detached observation as an ongoing practice, a way of not suffering unneccesarily. With time, those negative tape loops because less "real", less damaging. The other night was an extreme example of this happening to me, but detachement saved me from going down the tubes when I didn't want/have to. I think each persons' view and practice will be slightly different, because we are all slightly different, and we've got to find what works and makes sense for us. Good luck with that, hope we can help each other out with this stuff over time.

Blues, you've got it to a T. I think we have very similar experiences, and yes, there is a note of the manic to it. I'm down, i'm down, i'm down, then poof!! i'm UP, and I don't want that to end, so I stay up all night and ride it for all it's worth. But as I mentioned in another thread, the "crash" is not so much of a crash anymore. I've learned to recognize that the state is fleeting, and accept now that it won't last. But I still got some things done today, and not clinging to that high state makes readjustment the next day much, much easier. It took me quite a while to come to this, so now I can enjoy the "high" as a creative rush, and bid it adieu the next day. It's very reassuring to know I'm not the only one that experiences this phenom. Thanks.

TLight, wow you should write an autobiography, you have had such an interesting life. I'm glad your experiences along the way have given you some coping tools, that's awsome. So happy to hear about the job opportunity, too, I'm so pulling for you!!

Medic, thank you. Yes, I am trying to find my courage to try and fail and try again. I have a book on the Dalai Lama now that you mention it, "The Art of Happiness". It isn't written by him, but it is all his views and teachings. I'll have to pick that one up again.

Nirvana, that is an excellent technique for seeing your mother differently. Thanks for sharing that. It's funny you mention that, I was struck the other day by a friend's view of my Mom, and it helped me see her differently too. She was a very decent person, she did her best, and I've always known that. There is just some pain there.

 

[Blues in NYC]

Blues, you've got it to a T. I think we have very similar experiences, and yes, there is a note of the manic to it. I'm down, i'm down, i'm down, then poof!! i'm UP, and I don't want that to end, so I stay up all night and ride it for all it's worth. But as I mentioned in another thread, the "crash" is not so much of a crash anymore. I've learned to recognize that the state is fleeting, and accept now that it won't last. But I still got some things done today, and not clinging to that high state makes readjustment the next day much, much easier. It took me quite a while to come to this, so now I can enjoy the "high" as a creative rush, and bid it adieu the next day. It's very reassuring to know I'm not the only one that experiences this phenom. Thanks.

Precisely why I said be wary, as opposed to "avoid" or "don't make use of" or some other phrase. Sounds like you are learning to recognize the waves for what they are and surf them (like a champ?)! My doc has gone over this with me, that certain rhythms may never leave, certain impulses may never go away entirely. The trick is learning to turn these traits towards good in your life. Not necessarily good for others, as in complete selfless benevolence that bites you in the rear later on. But as a means to keep body and soul together and to enter the world of the functional again.

Looking back, I used a lot of these things in my own studio practice as an artist for many years. But as things fell apart, they got the best of me. So I too am going through a stage of learning to recognize these patterns and rhythms, especially now that I've FINALLY spent some good time dealing with some of the source trauma for the first time. Wish me luck. Continually inspired by your accounts Dave!

~ Blues

 

[cragger65]

I understand what you mean Blues, I think we have had very similar life experiences to some degree. I LOVE your doc's advice to learn to use these periods to good advantage, and am glad for the addendum you make about it not being for "the good of mankind" but for our own stability and health. I am dangerously all-truistic at these times, I believe. I need to keep my feet on the ground more, and I think I am learning this through trial and error. Sounds like you are making some excellent progress as well, that's fantastic to hear.

Over and out for now,
Dave