Discussing Transference..is It Shop Talk?

[ghotiff]

I know nothing.. but... I think that grieving is important to allow yourself to do. It allows you to acknowledge that life was unfair and that it hurt, and that you value yourself enough to allow yourself to feel these feelings.

Maybe this quote will help.
"The goal of grieving is not the elimination of all the pain or the memories of the loss. In [recovery] one shows a new interest in daily activities and begins to function normally day to day. The goal is to reorganize one’s life, so the loss is an important part of life rather than its center"

 

[NovemberStar]

@Skylynx. You're right in that yes - you probably will need to grieve for the 'fact' your T cannot and will not, be your mother or fulfill a 'mother type role'. But you don't do it alone. You work throughout it WITH your T.

You remind me of me so much - you've read up all about it, and have become your own T - analyzing it all, and thinking it through, and wanting to work on it all alone. :cautious: But that isn't the point - yes, you can keep doing that - but the GOOD parts of a transference with your T are the bits where you become vulnerable enough to allow her to know what is happening, and she continues to not reject you. She might however, put some boundaries in place - but you do not know what those are!

You say 'she won't allow the transference' - that is impossible =- it is already there! What she probably won't do is allow a repeat pattern of the relationship you had with your mother / significant tother or whoever she reminds you of, or represents. Why? Because it was probably a toxic or unhealthy relationship, with much hurt and pain. And repeating that pattern could add further trauma.

With our T's, we have the opportunity to experience a real SAFE relationship, with boundaries in place - and often firm boundaries - to PROTECT US. They aren't to protect our Ts, they are there to protect us. The relationship with her and your feelings can be addressed and she can help you work through these with you - in order for it to work properly YOU NEED HER - you can't do it all alone from reading widely on it ;).

Example: you have already identified how you are afraid your T will remind you 'I'm not your mother!!!' and maybe she will be cold and abrasive and 'not allow' the transference. If you have talked to her about your aunts' before, if she knows what they said and how it affected you, then she will know not to say that to you. If you haven't , then you need to, as you talk to her about what your feelings for her now. You might say "I have been struggling with this, I have something to tell you but I am so afraid of what you will say - lately I've been wishing you were my mum, or that I had had a mum just like you. I know it can happen in therapy, that its 'transference' but I have been so afraid of telling you in case you say 'I'm not your mother!" - that would hurt me so much, because it's exactly what my aunts said to me all the time growing up. I felt ………xxx…... as a result when they said that."

Yes, you may very well have to accept 'she is not your mother' BUT she won't abandon you or tell you to go away if you feel the pain in her not taking on the motherly role. Instead, she will be right beside you, hearing your feelings, and TOGETHER you can explore WHAT comes up as a result of that. Very unlike when you were a little girl! Can you see then, how healing can take place., by experiencing these feelings within a SAFE boundary? ;)

In the past, you were told those words, and you were badly hurt, and rejected and had to feel it alone. I doubt your aunts' said 'I'm not your mother' then gave you a hug, or let you cry about it with them, and let your know they were still there for you? Well, your T will still be there for you. Even if she does not 'hug' you, she will not give up on you and she will CARE you feel hurt. That will be a very different experience to when you were little. Which is one of the huge benefits of transference work within a safe, therapeutic relationship :).

No, your hurt feelings and pain will not make her change her boundary and she won't take on any motherly role, but she will help you find your way and be there with you, for however long it takes for you to work through the rejection feelings you MIGHT feel when you tell your T how you feel, and accept expressing the need you have (for a mother) won't lead to her BEING your mother. You will be able to experience what it feel like to NOT be rejected. And the experience of telling someone you have feelings for, feelings that leave you so vulnerable and afraid, and then that person accepting you anyway, not abandoning you, or berating you - it is so powerfully positive @Skylynx. I've felt so 'loved' by my T simply cos she hasn't run a mile when I let her know I have these feelings. The inner child in me was sure she would disappear or 'not want to talk about it'. And that was far from it - if anything, I cn honestly say, it has left me feeling closer to her, safer :)

(Even though it's still so hard and hurts, talking about my feelings and I have a LOT of hurt to work through with her about this)

Does that make sense?

 

[Skylynx]

Your post does make a lot of sense, Nov. I do tend to analyze and try to predict everything, summarize, and make everything black & white. It's the scientist in me. I'm just beginning to realize that transference is part of a larger relationship and will unfold even if not picked apart and given a schedule. I'm thinking that one of my problems with therapy is that I know little of the good, nurturing part that T fulfills, so tend to leave that out. I go straight to the negatives like separation and grieving without including the happy part of transference that I would grieve over later. It's hard to imagine things you've never had. It really helps to read on the forum here of others experience with transference and their therapists. I'm sure I put myself thru more distress about it all than needs to be. Thanks for your understanding, and I hope things work out for you in your therapy,too.

 

[NovemberStar]

I've been in therapy for much of the last 20 years - transference will not work itself out, and the T doesn't usually bring it up (if they are in any way sensitive to how big a thing it is). Your feelings won't just go away - the only way you can productively work through them is if you talk to your T about how you are feeling, and why. Not hinting at it, but by being direct.

As I said, I think its very brave of you to acknowledge this is how your feel to yourself, and by posting it on here - it took me many years until I was able to fully acknowledge it to myself, let alone anyone else. My first experience of transference id more harm to me, and that did not help either. When I was firs in the psych system, I had a day hospital nurse I ached to be a mother figure. The treatment team at the time probably did believe they were 'helping' me but how they tried to made it so much worse. All our one on one therapy sessions were viewed from behind a one way window. Yes, I knew there were two professionals on the other side, I even consented to it - because it was the only way I was going to be able to have one on one therapy with her. All it did was leave me feeling incredibly pathological, terribly flawed, even 'dangerous'. Given I had also been labeled 'BPD' and that 20 years ago it was believed those with BPD were pathologically manipulative, lying, and attention seeking in all expressions of distress / suicidal thoughts and feelings, it left me feeling they needed to 'watch' our interactions, least I manipulate the nurse - they were watching us for HER protection. That is how it felt, and the sense of deep and utter SHAME was huge.

They would also bribe me with not seeing her - if I didn't do the goal setting or attend all the groups, or eat my lunch, then I wouldn't be allowed to see her one on one, or having any interaction with her. I do think they believed it was to help me, not harm me, but the effects were devastating, and some of the depth of that I am only realizing now. Basically - it was repeating the trauma pattern with my mother - 'love' (from my mother); positive care, attention and affection (from my nurse) was controlled, withdrawn, manipulated in an attempt to control or modify my behavior. If I hadn't been previously traumatized within a close emotional relationship it would probably have been a positive thing and helped me.

@Skylynx - you say "I think I put myself through more distress than it all needs to be" - that tells me two things - a) you are minimizing it, b) you're blaming yourself for your feelings. In reality - your T represents what you never had, what your inner child is desperate for, as well as a potential threat in that it might lead to repeating the pattern you had during childhood - cold, rejection. That is BIG stuff, not just something you're created in your head hun:hug:.

Thing is - you may never bring it up with your T. BUT it won't go away. In time, maybe your feelings will change; but its likely to be a pattern in your life until you address it. If it's not with your T, it will be with another female figure in your life - a boss, a boyfriend's mother, a teacher .. anyone - BUT you won't be experiencing it within the safe T relationship, which has much bigger risks of rejection as well as not have any sensitivity or understanding as to your traumatic background - in other words, it would lack real understanding on the part of the other person. And in that context - it is so much harder and fraught with pain one hundred times fold (personal experience here with that one :().

The other reason your T needs to know how you feel is because while she probably suspects it will be there at some point, if she does not know for sure now, she won't be as sensitive as she would need to be otherwise. While I was so afraid my T would back off (trust me, I still am!!!), she has stepped up her sensitivity - she has always said she does not want to say or do anything that might upset me, or remind or of past hurt; but now she knows exactly what is going on, she is even more sensitive to it, and brings it up more often, and … well, she's just far more attune to it all really, as well as my ultra sensitivity.

Which means, there is less chance she will say or do something that repeats the traumatic interaction I had with my mother.

 

[Skylynx]

Excellent advice, NoveStar, and that was terrible how the therapy team manipulated you about seeing the nurse, and used a one way window.l That's beyond cruel! I'm thinking the people who raised you were smart and cunning to cause such damage. I know my aunts were, to make me so cagey and suspicious of betrayal. A kid has to have experienced advanced meanness to know all the ins and outs of it, eh?
I liked what you said about my T being likely to step on my toes from not knowing what my sensitive issues are! I hate and fear it when she says I can be the good mother to my inner child, But I think maybe she doesn't realize how unready I am to hear that, as I don't tell her. I expect her to read my mind, I guess. I'm saving this page on the forum so I can read it again...such wise people here who have experience.

 

[NovemberStar]

Oh yes, I'm familiar with the mind reading expectation. Honestly, if you have not even told her a tiny bit of how it was with your aunt's and mum, there is no way she will know and therefore MUCH more likely to say something that inadvertently hurts you.

I am the same as you - I cannot tolerate any 'self soothing' or 'be nice to your inner child' stuff - leaves me so badly triggered. My T knows enough that she would NEVER suggest such things, let alone use the word 'mother' in any context unless we are talking about it, and only with my ok to talk about it.

Can you ask your T for an email address - that way you could email her this thread, or copy and paste your parts of it - or print off your posts, highlighting the bits you are most afraid of letting her know (the transference, the 'mother' fears, the rejection fears, the talking about the word 'mother', the fear your have that if you tell her of the transference she will hurt you by reminding your 'she is not your mother' in the same very cruel was your aunts did) - take it to her, if you are so afraid of talking about it yet, then ask her specifically not to read it until you have left. As another safeguard, you could ask she emails you back or contacts you after she has read it, to reassure you she has read it and doesn't think anything less of you, and that she iw happy to keep seeing you and work it through with you. If you just wait to the next session to have any feedback, chances are your mind will be convinced she will reject you and the week long wait would be unbearable!

And if you are still afraid, put it in your email or write it down on the paper for you - that you might not be yet ready to talk about it in detail, and ask her to check it out with you before bringing it up.

Honestly, it will help so much if you can do this. Your T wants to help you, not hurt you.