Does Being Here Make Us Forget What "normal" Really Is?

[Sandstone]

Like many people, my first reaction on finding this forum was delight that there were other people out there experiencing the same things as me and often articulating them far more clearly than I could. It was a huge relief to feel I wasn't alone.

I'm currently in a pretty bad state, and have been put under the care of the Crisis Team, which means I get visits and phone calls from a couple of people each day, They asked me yesterday about levels of desire for self harm and suicide. I replied "Self-harm, that's trivial. I just make holes in my leg and then keep picking at them so they continue to bleed. It's negligible really"

Afterwards, I thought that if three years ago a friend or colleague had told me they did that, I'd have been aghast. I knew self harm existed, and used to work in a hospital that served a major women's prison. There I saw some pretty spectacular ways to self-injure. But it was outside the norm for day-to-day life. Now, I'm saying that it is so normal as not to be worth mentioning.

So how do you strike the balance in your mind between the comfort of knowing that we are with people who really do get it, and the risk of becoming so comfortable that we stop recognising the need to move on to recovery?

 

[mamachick]

Stenni-that is a really good point. I think this is particularly true for those who use the forum in place of outside healthy relationships and socialization. I have come to not really prefer my healthy friends-they are doing things, going on vacations, working, planning kids wedding, laughing, having family gatherings, etc. I can't relate anymore.

I think that the forum can be most helpful if we also are in therapy and forcing ourselves to do the things that may be most difficult, like getting out of the house and going out to a yoga class, meeting up with healthy friends, doing something to make healthy friends, joining a book club. I think that if we do not push to do these things, it is easy to become stuck since we relate to others here so much that we normalize our inablilties and fears about moving outside our own box.

Thoughts and prayers your way (((hugs))) if wanted

 

[Meadowsweet]

It is a good point.

I think striking the balance is possible with the kind of awareness that your post shows. If someone does recognise the danger of becoming dependent on the forum, or if it's taking over other parts of life, then with awareness of it being a problem, it can be worked through.

I'm sorry you're in a difficult place right now. But well done for recognising the problem.

 

[heidi]

So how do you strike the balance in your mind between the comfort of knowing that we are with people who really do get it, and the risk of becoming so comfortable that we stop recognising the need to move on to recovery?

I don't feel that way at all. I feel like everybody is struggling to improve and I feel like this is a very positive place. This is a support group in the truest sense. I see people trying like hell. I don't think it encourages people to stay trapped inside a box. When you speak of inability I think the only inability people have is the inability to shake this. This is people managing something that can't be shaken. I absolutely do not see it as an enabling culture of normalizing fears or inabilities. I just don't see it. In fact having read a fair amount I would go so far as to say I don't think I've ever seen a single instance of that.

Edit: Sorry. I often think I'm prone to argumentativeness. But I've seen a lot of the type of normalizing and accepting inabilities rather then fighting them that you're describing and I just don't think I see it here.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I agree with Heidi. I don't really see normalizing going on here. Yes, there are others in the same boat, but there is no coddling, no saying "that's ok and you don't have to change your negative behavior".

I'm called out on my stuff all the time, and while I may argue, I often come to the realization that others have a point and I change my behavior.

I see being here as a way of finding others in similar situations with similar struggles, but I don't minimize my negative behavior to the point of saying my self harm is ok, my episodes are ok, etc. But....I can see how others may come to this realization.

I think it helps to keep things in perspective. Question....do you post in your journal and get feedback there? If so, I think that may be part of the problem. Why? Journals have a VERY different flavor than the rest of the site. There is a lot more (((hugging))) going on and less calling people out on negative behavior. I've seen this in a number of journals and while this may be helpful for some, it's not for me. I move forward more readily when given a well intentioned kick in the arse without all the hugging. I've seen a number of people continue on with negative behavior because all they get is a sort of huggy-coddling response in their journals. I guess people are afraid to say otherwise? Anyway, just my 2 cents on the issue.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear stenni, I think you bring up an excellent point, one I've both thought about much and also feared.

However, something came to me today. As for myself, this past period in my life has been wrought with experiences I could have never imagined or forseen. Perhaps even more so, or similarly, the concurrent emotions which have accompanied it, or the acknowledgment of them, and of all the emotions I never even recognized let alone allowed myself to feel.

But.. I recalled late last night, being at a rememberance day service, I remember a Cold Play song, "(I Will) Fix You". I was shocked. And almost horrified. Simply because I associate Veterans with more likely understanding and being familiar with PTSD, and also as per myself have had and have a near-pathological fear and expectation on and of myself that 'fixing myself' is 101% my responsibility. Not any one's else's responsibilty, capability, burden, or naturally desire. I could have cried (and did in my heart) at the pain of others, their burdens and losses, my own 'relief' that there could be any 'hope' of ever being 'fixed' at all, ever. That myself existing like this, with ptsd, *could be* not the burden I've always felt it is, particularly on others. I guess to say, the thought that anyone- in that case Vetrans who I admire (and perhap *even* then *myself* if we share the same disorder)- were deserving of getting help, in (our own 'eyes' and beliefs, let alone others (imagine that, -wow).

However, because of a lifetime of that belief, I've never allowed anyone to get near to who "I" am. But how can anyone heal without in some ways also taking the (huge) risk of trusting in others? So now I see the forum, (good) people, as a way we can hopefully help each other. My analogy would be going to the Doctor, they can't 'fix me', but they have expertise, if they recommend a treatment I can only give it fair thought, and even trust knowing more than I perhaps their direction will help. And then be compliant with what I may not have the same hope in, but to try.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think it's ok to reach out as necessary to those who understand and may be able to help. We do get accustomed to very graphic and difficult issues (because often we are living them), I don't think we are assuming they are normal, just trying to find a balance between not feeling self-hatred and shame of ourselves, but addressing the truth.

Do what you feel is right stenni, I feel you have actually a wonderful balance (though you may not feel that way about yourself), with reaching out to others, being honest, persevering, knowing what is 'expected' in the 'normal' world, but similarly speaking also an ability at the drop of a hat to discuss what others would shy away from. You are priceless. :)

 

[rockyspine]

Well, it's been awhile since I've visited here but I must say I agree with Heidi as well. I have come here in times of crisis before - crisis for me meaning feeling isolated, depressed, will-I-ever-make-progress and so on, not so much self-harming or things of a more serious nature like that. That said, Stenni, I'm sorry you are in that place right now.

But I think this forum as a whole is here to support - meaning, help us all move forward in our recovery. We each have to take the knowledge and skills we see here and apply them to our own lives. If we don't do the work, we can't expect results. People who need more hugs, coddling and things like that maybe aren't ready to face the reality of putting in that hard work. Doesn't mean they won't ever be ready.

For me, I find support helps me move forward. I spent a long time NOT working on my recovery and feeling like I wanted to, but not knowing where to start or how to start. I came to places like this before and realized, there are people like me and they do it, and here's some information on how to start. So I did. Took that and ran with it and adjusted as necessary to my own life and beliefs.

Also, being exposed to the situations that lead us here in the first place, I think it's true that they don't "phase" us as much as someone who isn't "living in this world". However, for me that made me realize that my past situations were NOT normal. Because I never knew anyone else who went through it or heard it talked about, I just assumed it must happen to mostly everyone and people just don't mention it because it's perfectly acceptable. Which is the not the right idea at all. So coming to places like this and hearing that this happened to other people and actually having someone spell it out for me that it wasn't normal, I was like, wow okay, I had that wrong. That was my first major step in realizing I needed help and I am so grateful for that.

Thanks, all.:)

 

[Tinyflame]

Some things I thought were 'normal' weren't, as rockyspine said above. Or truly, they were traumatic. But some of my traumas were not *all* the defining factor of who I am or was. Meaning, I rejected myself and still stuggle to presume everyone feels (or would feel) the same, that I deserve to be rejected.

I have worked my bum off and struggled and scraped to stay alive, I hope to continue to try, but hugs help me personally too. I do best with both.

So at the risk stenni of offering, (((((stenni)))). I've been where you are, there's hope of a way out and a way to integrate this in our lives and overcome it. A balance that doesn't deny the realities but moves forward with a different understanding, or empathy, or compassion.

 

[maddog]

I too think you raise a valid point Stenni, and it is somethingI try to remain ever mindful of also. For what it's worth, I didn't necessarily interpret your post as suggesting that the forum specifically tended to promote a culture of "stuckness" when it comes to recovery, only that, by its very nature, it is defined by people who are struggling with the same impulses, urges, symptoms and behaviours that you are, and so inevitably this may "normalise" them to some degree in your mind.

If this is what you meant, then I absolutely believe it is true and have experienced the same phenomena, both here on the forum and more directly within the out-patient trauma support group that I attend twice weekly. I am extremely aware, and frequently discuss with my therapist, that while that environment has been healthy for me in terms of validation and peer support, I am addament that it should not become my only form of social support or contact, and that I need to utilise the group for what it is and not engage more than necessary outside of the group setting. This is by no means a reflection on the individuals there, just that I know that I need to keep the balance in my life as much as possible so that my activities and hence my world don't become defined by trauma treatment and the people and places who embody it.

I think your awareness of the need to strike a balance is more than half the battle, as someone else said. I'm sorry you are struggling and glad you have support, both here and outside of this context. To that end, I hope you can continue to come here for support and validation of your experiences, and also that you continue to reach out both to other mental health supports and to other social and non-trauma supports wherever possible. It's a very valid self-reflecting question to ask yourself though in my opinion.

Maddog

 

[mamachick]

maddog's post is also how I interpreted your question stenni. Thank you maddog, that is what I was trying to say regarding normalizing. What I have experienced might be shocking to share with another group, but within the forum, it is pretty much the norm.

I think it is also important to remember that everyone reacts differently to a situation. I have heard others on here speak of content that triggers them so bad that they have had to take a break. Although I have not experienced that, I can imagine and understand anothers experience with this. Also in any recovery process, sometimes things get worse before better. If I have been using another defense mechanism to cope with the trauma and have come here and opened old wounds, it may be worse before better.

Im sorry that I dont know the entire circumstance but if you feel that you have come to normalize the content stenni, I would pay attention to that and if you are feeling worse, I am glad that you are seeking help.

I know that my therapist says that I have a distorted view of the world, which comes from my past experience. I need to be aware of what I watch on tv, too much news, toxic family, etc because it comes to a point for myself that all I hear about is negative.

I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

[intothelight]

So how do you strike the balance in your mind between the comfort of knowing that we are with people who really do get it, and the risk of becoming so comfortable that we stop recognising the need to move on to recovery?

I think the balance comes from looking at people that have the same struggles but are working to overcome them, and also looking at members who are recovering as an example of what can be achieved. The forum is really no different than any other support group, or therapy, you get out of it what you are looking to get out of it.

 

[Hashi]

I think it's a good point. I think any kind of support group, and this is definitely one of the best, is only one aspect of what we need along the whole journey of recovery.

It's really important to be in a safe place where you're understood and validated, to hear other people's thoughts and experiences, and to have the help of normalisation when dealing with issues like shame and struggling to do even the simplest of everyday tasks.

I also feel I need to be careful to keep moving forward with recovery - I see it as being about me rather than about the forum. Different resources are appropriate for different things. I need to be aware that for being out in the world, functioning, connecting with people who don't have PTSD, the forum can help with some of that but I also need other support and resources.

It's one reason why therapy is so important to me. My therapist models a different sort of interaction and engagement with life. I also belong to two real life groups that are based on an interest and nothing to do with PTSD or therapy - those really bring home to me how different the "non PTSD world" can be. Sometimes that's difficult, but overall its helpful, especially since I'm not working at the moment and have few other influences.

So how do you strike the balance in your mind between the comfort of knowing that we are with people who really do get it, and the risk of becoming so comfortable that we stop recognising the need to move on to recovery?

For me, the balance has to come from things outside the forum. Personally, I don't think everything I need for recovery is here, in the same way that I don't think 100% of what I need for recovery will come from therapy or any other single thing.

I agree with Maddog about not wanting my life to become defined by trauma and trauma treatment. I don't want it to be defined by struggle either. It is at the moment, but I want to move on from that when I can.

I see things like the forum and therapy as much-valued support for part of my journey, but I need to be careful to keep moving forward too, because getting too "comfortable", even with discomfort and struggle, is always going to be a risk for me with such good understanding, support and... yes, normalisation.