Dog training question

[lostforgottensoul]

Here's a good video: (Donna Hill is a service dog trainer):

Is Your Dog Scared of the Clicker? Here's How to Counter Condition It.

I don't have anyone to help but can do it outside while playing.

I can call my dad's ex neighbor if 100% needed. He said he would help with training one weekend. So maybe?

The soft clicker has a different sound so maybe that would help?

Take the rest of the night off and just have fun with your dog. Tomorrow, pick his best thing (with Chip that's "Sit"), ask him to do it however you do and make a HUGE fuss when he does. Then do something else. You know what they say, "Baby steps".

He won't play right now so I am just leaving him to rest.

Chopper's strongest command is sit as well.

I'm not giving up. I'm the biggest no quiter that I know. It is just dishearting. Heart breaking. I am prepared for him to wash out but I wasn't prepared for this.

But I understand and I know I have to show him that there isn't anything to fear.

 

[desiderata310]

Try reversing things for just a minute.
Seriously, Right now you mark behavior we like with a clicker and then give a treat.
This time ask for the thing. Something like "look at me"
Say "YES" enthusiastically, give the treat and THEN click.
That way he remembers that the clicker means good things. After you are able to get it back to him having good connotations, reverse it again.
Also, don't be afraid to just give treats without the clicker to get him back on your side.

With words. Don't worry about it. If that word makes him scared, go to something else. You can sort this out. "lean" "wait" "ready" Anything that doesn't sound like brace.

 

[Friday]

FACE your dogs! >>> A dogfighting command.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

This time ask for the thing. Something like "look at me"
Say "YES" enthusiastically, give the treat and THEN click.

Tried that today. I actually didn't ask for anything. Just gave him the peanut butter and as he was licking it I clicked.

But maybe it was too soon.

He is listening to "leave it" and "settle" as we have thunder storms coming through. Had a tornado warning and I'm like "oh great. Horrid timing".

But, anyway, after he settled or turned his head away from the sound which is what I want with leave it, I said "good" and petting his butt as it was the only part I could reach and he didn't run away or seem freaked.

He's snoozing and it he seems way less freaked. Before he was like a lump. Like the most depressed person. He seems a bit more active. I haven't asked him to play or move but he just seems closer to normal.

Maybe he needed to sleep on it? Lol. I think time distance helps so I may not ask for much in the next few days. Just trying to get him to do any behaviors that he knows well and seeing if I can get that emthusism back up.

FACE your dogs!

That's a dog fighting command? Who knew?

He has never been faught. He may have been a bait dog but every single pit that I have seen that either was a fighter or a bait dog had some sort of scars and certianly behavioral issues. He has neither. So I don't know.

I don't personally know his previous owners. I was told she had 4 kids and moved and couldn't take him. He wasn't at a shelter but a dog vacation place. Like a border/doggie daycare ish place. She worked there. My step mom's best friend's husband also worked there and that's how my dad met him and found out he needed a home. I was living alone and a shooting had happened here months before so that's how I ended up with him. My dad called me and said "do you want a sweet pitbull?" I know by experience that it is VERY hard to rehome a pit in a good home. Much harder then other dogs so I made an agreement with the place that they would take him back if he didn't work out. The owner seemed very nice and accomendating on the phone. She seemed very concerned of him being placed in a good home but she never met with me.

I should say that this is a 3 hr drive away, in my hometown so she isn't local.

He just doesn't show any sign of seeing a fighting ring in any way. But I honestly don't know.

 

[desiderata310]

Maybe he needed to sleep on it

When I get triggered I'm better with time. Guessing this is similar.

I know by experience that it is VERY hard to rehome a pit in a good home.

Had they had him since he was a puppy?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Had they had him since he was a puppy?

Yes. Or so my dad told me she told him. She said he was so small he fit in her hand and I also know his dad is a red nose and his mom is pure white so I am guessing a breeder or a friend? To be that small he would have had to been just born or close to it.

ETA: I was also told that her husband is (was?) a military helicoper door gunner, thus his name, Chopper. Not sure if thats true, just what I was told.

Not that it matters. My dad is retired airforce and just likes to talk military.

 

[Friday]

That's a dog fighting command? Who knew?

He has never been faught. He may have been a bait dog but every single pit that I have seen that either was a fighter or a bait dog had some sort of scars and certianly behavioral issues. He has neither. So I don't know.

He'd have scars if fought or baited, but the command itself is trained. Really brutally.

Spoiler: Fair warning, most won't want to read this.

Electricity to face & genitals, which also clicks on & off / makes a snapping noise as the little band of electricity arcs / most people drag the cattle prod along the cage fronts &/or flick it on/off to f*ck with the dogs and get them angry. This is very very early training and one of the "benefits" of it is that it still allows the sale of submissive dogs, who won't leap forward and start ripping at what's in front of them even when anal raped with the live cattle prod. It's far from the only way this command is trained, it's just one that doesn't leave external scarring. Unless there's testicular rupture. Which is generally avoided, because they want the testosterone, but happens on accident sometimes. On an older dog, they just kill them, but a younger submissive one can be neutered & sold. Ditto those who train FACE by docking tail. Most people are fine with buying dogs with docked tails, and think happy thoughts about vets and anesthesia as opposed to fighting pups realities. Ears are usually saved for last. But even they can be cut on for awhile before they're too short to be sold without a lot of questions, that aren't worth the few hundred bucks they save by selling them. It's just not where most dog fighters who have legit fronts start. They start with electricity & genitals.

Some rescues know to test the command. Most don't want to, though, because it means legally they need to destroy the dog -in most areas- if they respond to it. Even a fear response, is still a response.

I'd just lay money on the table that "BRACE" in Command Voice followed by a sound like a cattle prod? Means he came from a fighting breeder (and I'd really like a few words with the chick your dad got him from) & Is just a big fat trigger for him. Hence the immediate reaction & why any kind of training right now is spooking the f*ck out of him.

I could be wrong. It just fits.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Hmm, that's intresting @Friday. Well, it's horrid animal abuse, that's not what I mean. I am thinking of his complete acceptance of the clicker and throughly loving it and the training with it until now. And when I was saying "face" outside (as I was trying to see if I could get him ok with it by words that sounded like it while feeding peanut butter) he seemed ok. Like I said "lick my face" (which he did and normally it's "give me a kiss") and I said "peanut butter on your face" and "stroke your face" when I was just petting him and all seemed ok. When I said "Grace" and of course "Brace" is when he freaked.

But maybe he just wasn't fully triggered yet. I don't know.

But he does have a knee jerk head jerk look at me and just like melted into a mush of terror in the street when I was outside. I have NEVER seen him do that. Even with his biggest fears in the past (mostly fireworks) he would bark and become protective. I have never seen him melt into mush like that.

He also still had his floppy ears and his tail and he was fixed before I got him.

But some of that makes sense. And no one knows what happened in the dog vacay place. I saw a very popular board and train take a broom stick and jab hard and constantly to a dog in a crate on a youtube vid designed to bring awareness to board and trains. And it was a pitbull.

He is terrified of the broom and he had a huge issue with feet that we had to train past. I had no idea and went to go step over him and he moved like I was about to kick him and because of that did.accidently. So I know something happened. I just wish I knew what the something was as it would be a hell of a lot easier.

He is also a very active sleeper and sometimes wakes up running. I always wondered if he was having nightmares.

That makes me so sad! People think pits are these horrid animals. One person told me that I should shoot my dog in his fat head and that all pits ahould be killed. But yet no one knows what these dogs go through to make them fight and make them mean.

I've busted fighting rings before with the rescues I have volunteered with but the process of it I wasn't fully aware of. I know of some "tools" used but just not the process like that.

ETA: This is just another hurdle. We'll get through it. We always do!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I just had a very successful "training session".

I had gotten up to switch the laundry and was calling him by his nickname "Chop Chop" which usually makes him super excited. Like if you said "Chop Chop come here" he would very pouncefully come to you like a puppy.

Anyway, I was doing that and was asking him where his ball was. Which he normally searches until he find it. Its a kong-like thing.

Anyway, i got him engaged in play while I sat on the floor, then interupted with a treat here or there. Then made the clicker make noise as it has a scrunchy keychain thing on it to keep it around my wrist and a carabiner to clip it on the treat bag and the clicker itself makes a noise. And he knows that noise. So made it make noise but kept him engaged in play.

Then I put the clicker under my leg and did a muffled click. He stopped for a min, I playfully asked "what was that" then gave him a treat, and got him back playing again.

He is so sweet! A few times he was unsure and he came in for a hug. He actually does this. He lays his head on my shoulder while I hug him. He is such a loving dog. I was pushing on his shoulders though, testing and he can and does bare a lot of weight without issue or pain.

So basically I switched up play, click during play, and treat. After a few times he was stopping and moving over to the coffee table where the treat bag was, ears up, waiting for the treat. And I just slowly unmuffled it.

I then showed it to him and he paid it no mind and went on playing. I then put it on my wrist.

He came in for another hug (I LOVE it when he does. He doesn't just do it when he is unsure. He does it when he just wants love. This dog LOVES to be loved on). So I gave him the hug but the clicker was in my wrist when I did meaning he let it touch him. And I again tested his abilty to bare weight and he can, no doubt, do this.

I then stopped play and asked for a sit, click/treat, down, click/treat, then more play. He waited to play again for the release cue that I had forgotten.

I did press on his shoulders and butt and said "steady" and so that will be a much better cue.

I stopped with play and let him go take the kong thing to the couch.

I'm not going to go right into training. I will probably do this play, click, treat, play for a few days doing less play and more click/treat little by little but he certianly isn't fearing me. My face got soaked while I was down there and he was climbing up me. He plays hard. Will need to work on that later but I am just happy to see my happy loving dog back!

ETA: Oh, also, early into the play, before I touched the clicker I was saying "yes" and "good" and then giving him treats.