Emotional Bullshit From Seperation - The Games Played

[WarHippy1%]

I guess this is where I have to disagree with dlj. As soon as you lower yourself to their level to play the game, whether it's to win or teach them a lesson, you've lost the game, you haven't taught them a thing, only that sometimes the game ends unfavorably. When I notice I'm involved in a game, I stop playing COMPLETELY. When you find yourself playing the game alone, you lose, and alot of times it hits hard because the person who starts it thinks they are 'all that' and wouldn't dream that someone just wouldn't at least play and try to win. It takes their self-confidence and runs it through the ringer. To the person who refuses to play, it boosts their self-esteem because they realize they didn't need that creep anyway. So, who wins if one person refuses to play? It sure isn't the game player, cuz he's playin with himself, in more ways than one. The person who says, "I'm just not gonna play, cuz yer not worth the game" is the winner, and as a nice added effect, imagine the other person's ego deflating like a balloon when you tell them that message, it's really worth doing face-to-face.
Just my humble opinion.....
WarHippy1%

 

[dljwhitewolf]

oh so false

No is all I will answer here in this forum, with adrenalin pumping out of respect I will not answer to a benign statement. Yes I adore you war, but enough is enough...
Me and Sarge,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Portabella]

I played horrible games with my first husband. I actually felt justified as he did not treat me the best, but as life has progressed I realize it was not as bad as I thought it was at the time. The worst thing I ever did to him was sell his car without his permission. I was 18 and he had a red corvette that he adored. He would wax and wipe it. Kept it in the garage, loved the car alot more than me I am convinced. Well, I ran an ad and sold it for $6000. I was in mint condition, candy apple red, louvers, sidepipes, window etching of strawberries and roses, button tufted leather seats, mag wheels, and had all the extra's. It sold in a day and he was ready to kill me, I really did not understand what I did that was so bad at the time, now.....I am amazed I am alive.

My second husband Paul (11 1/2) years of marriage, he would always tell me that he would kill me before I would ever leave him. I am going to zip through but I left him and took the kids. I will tell more in my diary about all the violence that ensued during the break up, but....during the second restraining order hearing (being amended) he brought a rose, he had always bought me a rose for birthday, mother's day, Christmas, it was kind of his thing. Well, here we are in Judges chambers, sheriffs officers and victims advocate present in case of trouble (violence) and he hands me a rose. The judge was floored. I left the rose on my seat as I left that day and was escorted to my residence by sheriff dept. Later, as I was to serve him with divorce papers he beat me to it by a day and had me served so the venue would be in Linn County Iowa instead of Colorado. He kept continuing the case and was standing strong on the fact that he would not let me go. Then I drove to Iowa, I was excited as he had not continued the case and when I got there I was told in the courtroom that they were sorry but his lawyer had continued last minute as he was out of town on business. I was pissed to say the least. When I got to my car there was a single rose on my car seat. Scared the crap out of me. So I re upped the restraining order in Colorado, as I took that as a threat. I also wrote the judge and told him that by him continuing the case over and over (had been 2 years) he was holding me captive. The judge actually granted the divorce the next hearing even though neither of us were there.

I have not spoken to him for many years and had the great honor (bleh) of speaking with him as he called me at work about 2 years ago. The venom is still in his voice, we have been split for literally 13 years now and the hate is thick in his voice. I still watch my back as I trust this will never be over. I believe he is the ultimate in mind games.

 

[anthony]

A vent... something that needs to come out IMHO....

And this just reinforces exactly what happened between Kerrie and I, where the emotional bullshit simply continues (the games she plays), and not only does she now attack me, but now nicolette, also now the forum members. This is an extract of information she sent to me in an email today:

Nice post on the forum about the hell I gave you…what a joke. Aaah if only you were honest and revealed what a lying cheat you really are. Bet your forum buddies don’t know that you were cheating with the chick next door do they, or that YOU threatened to call the police or that YOU wouldn’t give me the keys to my car. Actually some of them probably do know and probably knew before gullible ‘ole me figured out....

....No wonder you wouldn’t give me your address. Not a bit of moral fibre to be found in your body. She is welcome to you only I hope she is smarter than Susan or I ever was and figures you out before it’s too late. Whoops it already is dumb ass let you move into her house with her.

Now this is Kerrie's current emotional state. We broke up and our marriage cease in January this year, yet I didn't even meet Nicolette until end of February at Logans birthday party. Funnily enough, we had never even chatted until end of February, as she had her life, we had our lives... then i had my life. Kerrie seems to think now that I cheated on her because I am still married to her, though seperated. WRONG... that law is not the case here in Australia, far far from it. You do not need to be divorced in order to be in another relationship here, simply you must be seperated and all is well. Nice try... another emotional attack and game in order to try and justify in her own mind another reason for our breakup other than we just failed one another, we just failed together as a marriage. Simple as that, yet she does not want any responsibility in the failure, instead she would rather tell herself that I cheated on her after we broke up... exactly how that is cheating once you seperate, but to her it is, and no doubt will be for some time.

These are emotional games... this crap is absolute BS in my mind. Grown adults cannot accept responsibility for their actions, so they play games. Its funny though, in that she mentions my threat to her about calling the police, which I did threaten her to call the police, no issue with that, and the only reason was because she remained in MY house, not her house, but my house without my permission after I had told her to leave. She dangled the kids in front of me once again... something like, "you wouldn't put your kids out on the street, would you?" Funnily enough, silly me once again, didn't call them and let her have her controlling way once again, as she did our entire marriage, thus the next morning she wanted the keys to her car as the transport was here to pick it up... the old beat up corolla I had here, as she TOOK the new car herself.... yet I simply wanted her set of keys to MY house in exchange, yet she didn't want to give me the keys, so i told her I wouldn't give her the car key, hence why she called the police on me, the police arrived, and kicked her out of the house, told her to pack her shit and get the hell out as she was illegally staying in the house without my permission and had no authority to be their as she was not financial with the property, only myself... exactly what I told her and threatened her to call the police in the first place, but she did it for me... this is what I laugh about. So she got removed from the house, I gave her the key to the car and the police made her go and hand my keys back to the agent. Chuckled once again... because her manipulative controlling behaviour backfired on her.

This is mind games, and this is the exact shit I refer in this thread that I believe is well and truly unacceptable. Now as to why I wouldn't give her my new address... like dur, do I really want to rub it in her face? No... I am not that much of an arsehole these days. Yes, I used to be years ago and most likely would have done stupid things like that, ie. been just as nasty and certainly lowered myself to the same level, but I did not and will not as I am a completely different person nowadays to what I was, yet Kerrie still has not moved on within herself to see for herself that my new relationship has nothing to do with our seperation, nor was it even a thought at the time of seperation.

I believe to Kerrie that my relationship will never be acceptable until such time as she has let go and moves on in another relationship herself... whilst she is miserable, she wants me to be so... go figure... like I didn't see that coming. That is a pretty standard game in relationship breakdowns from what I see and have experienced myself.

Kerrie thinks I hide things, yet those with access to the PTSD only section would now that I don't, and discussed this openly the entire time, bouncing things off others, getting feedback, looking for other solutions that I have not though... yet emotional games get played. Things would be much easier if children weren't involved, though she uses them like pawns, still trying to control me with them. I would have thought she would know better by now, but still obviously not.

Now to me, I would think that not everything should be mentioned about a relationship breakdown, as i hadn't mentioned here because IMHO it would have only discredited Kerrie more, yet she attacks me with this type of nonsense, attacks Nicolette now and she has nothing to do with anything apart from being my new girlfriend after Kerrie and I had seperated, and now the forum members... what next? Maybe she will attack the kids? Maybe Melbourne itself is at fault for our marriage breakdown? Why can't adults simply be honest and look within themselves before they go jumping to others, pointing fingers and looking for someone to blame? I know why... its easier to blame someone else than it is to blame yourself. Something to do with denial and looking inwards I believe? The exact things you must do in order to heal PTSD, hence why those who heal PTSD or trauma are generally much more intune with themselves, honest with themselves, than people generally are who have not suffered trauma.

 

[batgirl]

Ugh maybe I should follow in my Auntie Brenda's footsteps and become a nun... :p

 

[Marlene]

I have been with my husband for 21 years now and thought that I had nothing to add. But reading things here have brought some thoughts forward. Before I met my husband, I was a very good game player. And tended to attract the same kind. Makes for miserable relationships. After I got with my husband, it took a while to work the kinks out and learn that I didn't have to play games with him. That's also when I learned that game playing is a form of self-defence. A bad one, but one used a lot just the same. It's also a form of control since through your actions or words you're attempting to control another's words or actions. Again...not a good thing to do.

I've told my daughters (especially my oldest who is an adult) DO NOT play games. Be honest, be yourself. If that's not good enough for someone...screw 'em! Then they're not worth your time. I've also had to explain (a number of times in a number of ways) that being a legal adult does not make you an adult. It has nothing to do with age and everything to do with who you are, how you act and taking responsibility for yourself and your actions. All of it...good and bad.

The mention of healing traumas with PTSD present requiring honesty was definately right on the money. At least for me. I've had to be honest with myself in ways that, I thought, were too humiliating to contemplate. But I've done it and I continue to do it because lies (even to yourself) only lead to more lies. It's a real no-sum-gain proposition. It's also lead to a deeper honesty in my marriage, my family, my friends and my life. It becomes 'If I won't tolerate dishonesty with myself anymore, why would I tolerate it in other parts of my life?' Yeah, I've lost a few friends, but I've gained a whole lot more respect for myself and better relationships with those that count.

Anthony you asked

Why can't adults simply be honest and look within themselves before they go jumping to others, pointing fingers and looking for someone to blame?

Being an adult entails taking responsibility for your actions rather than pawing them off on the most convenient person/place/thing. Some people don't fuction like that and refuse to even entertain the idea. A heard a quote years ago about adulthood. 'You become an adult when you won't take your pleasure at the expense of another's pain'

Lisa

 

[Jim]

Ugh maybe I should follow in my Auntie Brenda's footsteps and become a nun... :p

No no Evie please my dear, one bloody self-righteous nun in the family is sufficient, thank you. Besides which fear of relationships is not a valid reason to join a religious order. Face your fears my girl, don't avoid them.

Anthony, you have my sympathies. Only been married once thank Christ. Kathy and myself went through similar difficulties during our trial separation. However. That's 30-odd years back and this old head is not what it used to be. Perhaps Kathy will recall a specific incident to share. Probably getting into hot water with this one, but females seem to have a knack for remembering past wrongs, even decades later! ;-)

Bottom line - Kathy and I were both of us young and immature, reckon in our early 20s. Both acted in ways we now regret. If I may be so bold, 35 is a bit old to still be carrying on in this fashion. Understand it is a difficult thing. Kerrie is hurting and angry, obvious that, but the expression of that hurt is self-defeating. About time to grow up in my opinion. Suppose some people never completely grow out of that behaviour. However. There are children to consider. Not a healthy atmosphere. Those precious little ones and their comfort should be top priority. Infuriates me when people use their youngsters as leverage. Very selfish, that.

Pleased to read you are not accepting any bullshit. That is the best way. Hope things settle down soon, for the sake of all concerned.

Jim.

 

[Deleted member 487]

I'm tired of relationships because the girl I'm usually dating complains about how she doesn't want a guy that plays games.

Well, the fact is love IS a game. Either you play it and have a relationship or you don't play it and don't have a relationship. Is that harsh? I don't think so. It is true though. What those ghirls wanted isn't a guy that doesn't play games, but a guy that plays their games. Sometimes they just can't tell much difference.

The human personality is so unique and diverse that "games" (as we call them) really aren't the game kids play, but instead it's finding what works for the person dating. Dfferent bits and pieces to attract them, to turn them on and to turn them off. It seems like a game, when all it really is is experimenting and researching.

IMHO.

 

[dljwhitewolf]

Well, I feel for ya, Anthony, because, yes, the children will always connect you.
I learned via my mother, very early on, the game of jealousy. Thank goodness I am allergic. But she showed me through her relationships, that she will never really know what love is. Games are going to be played in one aspect of life or another, this is a fact.
Some are born to forever drown themselves, and never "get it".
You seem to still get really bothered by her words, but as long as you know the facts about yourself, nothing should hit you and stick, just fall off like a leaf falling off a tree.
I had a neighbor wanting me to tell her what to say to someone she wants to break up with. She was trying to find words that made sense, but were wrong to the situation.
No one is wrong for a failure, it was faith that got you to enter it, but reality that made you see clearly. Some chemistries are just a wicked brew, as you very well know now. It's an endless cycle of live and learn. As we change so too will others toward us. What we will and won't allow in our lives.
You are growing and looking for merit that you have made right decisions, to my way of thinking you see it very clearly and realistically.
And as far as not rubbing her face in it, I completely understand that. That was a very respectful thing to consider.
Regardless of who it is, try not to let someone else have any negative reign on your life. Having ptsd is hard enough, and many will never get out of their hell, because once they are on the top rung of rescue, they jump from fear of the unknown, or scared of any type of change.
You are facing yours. Its a very brave thing to do.
My mom used to berate me, in my tender years, when I learned I had to change my way of reacting. I used her way, which was screaming. It never got anywhere, I and was left totally frustrated.
Finally I spoke with calm words, and said when she wished to speak to me, and could do it like an adult, I will listen. (Boy, did that initally start sparks of, I think I'm so perfect, etc. etc. etc.) But the more I walked away from the screeching, the more she had to view herself and make changes to get a word in.
With much time spent on this, she had to change, and I stopped being the door mat.
She is the main reason for me having ptsd, although queen of denile wants to be vindicated and blame everyone else. The fact was she was my legal guardian, and didn't care what cheap way of living my brother and I went thru, as long as we were not a burden to her.
I feel for anyone who has to go through this, but in order for it to change, we must change the way we react, every action, has a reaction.
If we can change a reaction to something negative, instead of the ones we have come to know thus far, it changes the way others behave toward us.
I demand respect because I am not the enemy, and won't be treated like the enemy.
I wish I could help more, again, you have your children to consider. And no matter what, it is those children that need to know from example on behavior. You can only control your side of it. Children are very quick to note positive reinforcment.
Hope something in there helps, think of your accomplishments thus far.

 

[ryair]

Something i was told recently that I feel applies to jealousy,and revenge as well......
Resentment is swallowing poison, wishing the other person dies.

You are only going to hurt yourself.
As to the game playing...
It would be a very lucky person who has never experienced this, and perhaps that is what makes it seem so abbhorent. When you can finally recognise it for what it is, and know that it will only affect you as a person if you let it, and as War suggested, it is "game over".

As to the game player...
And lets face it, after honing game playing skills on a person living with PTSD, they would feel like it would only be a matter of time before you 'cracked' and gave them back the control they are not only used to, but have but have been accustomed to having. Of course they will try and try again!
Letting go of control is scary, and fear is sometimes the biggest motivator of all. Who are they really without you and your PTSD? Sometimes it is the hardest question of all....Standing here on my own, Who am I really?

As to protecting yourself, and not becoming a game player yourself.....
Ultimately I comes down to how well you know yourself, and whether you can face the unknown and stand tall knowing you have the skills to live life independantly.
Just my thoughts....
xxxxxxxxx

 

[Marilyn_S]

Anthony,

Don't know if I've ever played head games but my X most definately played them with me. He acted like he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He left me and went to live with one of my college buddies. He would come back to the house frequently to see if I'd have sex with him. Most of the time he would not take no for an answer. He told me he'd attend marriage counseling but that he did not think it would do any good. He was always acting like he wanted me back then if he got what he wanted he would say he was not in love with me anymore. I guess that was a guy playing head games.

 

[dljwhitewolf]

Well I'm glad I do not tolerate head games, life is to short, the one thing I promised myself when I was little was one day I would be big, and when I get big, I won't let anyone screw with me. Well at fifteen I was big. I may have taken it way to far, because I finally fell in love at 32, short lived but worth the feeling, not the memories of the guy, but I won't tolerate head games.
Now that I am big, and 44, I just may be falling in love for the second time. This one was worth the wait. Big time.