Experiences With Sociopaths

[Broken]

And by the way Anthony I created this thread in the first place to ask what other's experiences with sociopath's were to get a better picture of whether I was dealing with a sociopath or not.

I thought this post helped me and I had some very helpful comments. So I am glad I posted this thread even though it obviously wasn't worded correctly

Lizo, it was perfectly worded. It came from your heart.

<Full quote edited by KP the nut>

 

[Queen Boudica]

Went back to the beginning of this thread and read where I was then. This thread really did help me a lot. I was in dire turmoil then, not sure whether I was doing the right thing by separating from my abusive husband, questioning whether it was me imagining it exagerating it, which is what he loved to get me to think.

Thinking it was Ok because I provoked him.

Having left him, I am now free to remember how oppressive and scary it was and how controlling he was. It was awful.

It was worded to find out about other's experiences with sociopaths and I was trying to find out who I was dealing with, whether he really was a sociopath as I had come to suspect and my psychologist agrees. Don't think there was anything wrong with that.

I have to deal with him because of my kids. I need to know who I am dealing with. I now know I can never be sure, I treat him with caution. I watch for signs he will get violent again or with the kids. I see him try and still control and I am good now at trying not to let him control me. That is really really hard for me. And the responses on this thread helped me get there. Worded wrongly or not.

 

[BloomInWinter]

(((((Lizio)))))

 

[BloomInWinter]

...why are people dropping abusers into titles like this in the first place?

I do it because it doesn't matter to me whether they are diagnosed or not...why wait until there is irrefutable proof?

If a person is abusive, unsafe and damaging, the response I believe in is to tell them to get to safety then reassess. It's never wrong for a victim to act in one's self-defense...especially when there are children involved.

There's tons of people who will tell abuse victims to 'give that person another chance.' ...and of course, people are free to take whatever suggestion fits their idea of healing.

I don't believe in siding with an abuser (diagnosed or not) by telling a victim to waste any time trying to figure out why the abuser is being abusive. When in harm's way, does it matter where the abuse is on the continuum? Just get to safety, get help....and see what the professionals tell them once they are in contact with safe, supportive people. I do believe referring troubled people to shelters and trained professionals is the 'gatekeeper' approach that can help them find the resources & expertise needed to make the situation better.

The person who turns out to just be ill but 'wakes up' and changes their behavior from being abusive to being supportive is rare but it happens. It's wonderful to see. It does happen.

But it's far too often not the way it goes.

I guess I don't see the downside in using the term, medically accurate or no.

?

 

[anthony]

Forgive me if I am out of line, is it possible that something triggered you in the previous posts.

No, nothing in the prior triggered anything. I don't really have trauma related triggers nowadays, I do have normal societal triggers that create emotional responses, as every person has. I responded, did not question Lizio. Lizio questioned my response... not the other way around. Lizio is still questioning and interpreting.


Lizio, I am not saying I know the entire story, nor am I guessing... I will say it again, it does not make a person a sociopath. Please go read the linked content if you do not understand, hence why I posted it.

This thread is blaming oriented... you worded it, not me. I am questioning it though based on a blame orientation. This is no way has a thing to do with what you experienced. It is about you looking at whether your blaming tone of citing your ex husband is a sociopath is correct or not.

No psychologist should be citing such opinion either, again, unless the person has had a psychiatric evaluation that clearly defined your ex husband as having a histrionic or narcissistic personality disorder. If he is diagnosed with either of those, yes, he is a sociopath. If not, then no, he is not a sociopath and you have not been dealing with one... you have just experienced trauma from a messed up male in your life.

Now you have told me that you created the thread, I see why you are so defensive. So now I have read your initial post and will challenge your own words to please clarify:

He just thinks about himself all the time. He does not care about how it affects others, as long as he gets what he wants. He does not think about what affect he is having. He is always right. But he thinks he is doing for everyone's good. In his head he is the best person who knows better and who is looking after everyone. Does not care that they are telling him it is wrong, that is actually hurting them. In his eyes it is justified and everyone else is wrong. He is in control because he knows best. His ideas about how things work are over and above everyone else's. As long as he gets his way, everything has to work around what he wants. He cannot consider anything else. He just does not hear anything else apart from his own thoughts and opinions.

The above reads of black and white thinking, all or nothing. You have catastrophised most statements to the worst spectrum, you have even become a mind reader for him, knowing what he is thinking, however; this actually only applies in his dealing with you and his sisters, not as it actually reads, as by your own words quoted below you state:

Sorry he has plenty of respect for women. He loves women he hangs around with them he praises them his women work colleagues adore him, all the secretaries, and so have a lot of our women friends. He flatters them and plays the charming little boy with them. He has women friends over men.

To achieve this, he cannot then suit your above quoted statements, because others would not put up with that if he was that way. So this is actually more personal to you and his sisters.

He believes in women's rights. He does not get on with men so well. He would encourage me in my career and encourage his women colleagues.

So he had positive qualities as well, even with you. Your initial assessment posted only negative statements, nothing I read about positive qualities.

His treatment of his sister's was about control. Did not matter whether they were women, it was about control. And the same with me. And he thinks he has that right and will justify it that he was provoked. Or that is how things are.

Ok, controlling is a form of emotional abuse, though does not make a sociopath.

He has less respect for other men, but he cannot exert power over them. His younger sisters and me were much easier to control and abuse.

He still has relationships with men, friendships... even if drawn more to women, still not making a sociopath as you outlined in your initial posts statements.

Whether he is a sociopath or not I don't know for sure but I would not mind laying a bet on it. All I know he is a real nasty deceptive shit who has no guilt and it is all about himself and how badly he has been treated.

I completely concur with this statement, hence my first response to this thread, outlining the problem of people trowing around the term "sociopath" and applying it to people who do bad shit, or are just nasty by nature, yet still do not fit sociopath. Sociopathic tendencies, absolutely... again, we all have them, some more than others.

He is never going to admit true guilt for what he has done and he will never get a psychiatric evaluation and the psychologists he saw, well he charmed the pants off of them and just played down what he had done, saying he was sorry whilst at the same time asking me to come up with a list of his abuse and then giving excuses as to why I provoked him into violence.

Still not a sociopath. Sorry, he would not get it over psychiatric evaluations that easily if he was a sociopath. Once again, you have turned into a fortune teller by predicting the future. Classic negative thinking style which is causing you lots of negative emotion and thus resulting in anger, being the emotional response.

What I am reading is more tuned towards this. He has hurt you tremendously, without question from what you have written. You are angry at him for what he has done. You have a lot of work to obviously do with trauma therapy and you are working on that with your therapist.

Yet weighing up your initial statement and also factoring in your correct wording of "think he is a sociopath", I do not see it based on your responses since. I see a very hurt woman whe is extremely angry at her ex husband for the pain he has caused you, and your initial statement screams that through the excessive blaming, catastrophising, mind reading, fortune telling the future and all or nothing statements made.

I am not questioning your trauma, which you are obviously getting angry at me about now. But I am questioning the term sociopath being thrown around so loosely these days to anyone who is guilty of abuse, regardless the severity.

That is like saying, people don't change. That is your interpretation of your ex husband right now. Factually, people can and do change every single day. They change from good to bad, and bad to good. You ex could become worse, he could become better over time, depending on his choices made.

The only person you are hurting right now though with all your negative thinking, which creates negative emotion, is you. You deserve better based on the trauma you have endured... you really don't need to continue punishing yourself.

I would ask that you please stop reacting to my posts, and reread them, even sit on them overnight and think about them, because your reactions right now are more aggressive than anything else... I may be misinterpreting, but that is how I am reading your responses on this subject.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Yep I do deserve better and I am trying to get there. And writing this thread helped me leave my abusive husband who I was married to for 24 years and with him for 2 1/2 years before that.

Mind reading is what I had to do to keep myself safe. I knew him from the age of 19, so I think I can do a bit of mind reading. When you have spent 26 years with a man, you get to know him pretty well.

Am I angry with him Of course I am. But is that why I am labelling him a sociopath? NO. I was trying to find out if he was or was not. That is why I posted. I suspected he was from his behaviour and his lack of guilt.

Actually I think I am much less negative than I ever have been and I am standing up for myself now which I never would have done in the past. I see that as more positive.

What do you want me to do just lay down and agree with you? Sorry, that was what would happen with my ex H. I have a mind for myself. I agree I can't say for sure he is or is not a sociopath, but I again state from living with the man for over half my life, would have a much better idea than what you have read in a few posts.

Sure you are right, until he has a psychiatric evaulation, he is not clinically defined as a sociopath. Does not mean he is not one though. Just mean he has not been psychiatrically evaulated and got the tick next to his name.

I wanted him to change, I thought he would, he still ended up abusing me again. He had plenty of chances to change. But, in fact, he got worse. So do I think he will change for the better now? No and I am not going to take that risk. He had his chances, I gave him far more than any would. And yes, I realise that was my problem because now I know I have complex trauma, well it explains an awful lot why I put up with his behaviour.

I am not trying to punish myself. Finally realising that ex H was never going to change and that he could well be a sociopath, pushed me away from punishing myself and getting out of that relationship. When I started this post I was still in it. Afraid to leave.

Now I am out and trying to pull myself together. And, despite my really down days, I know I am getting there. So compared to how I used to be I think I am punshing myself a lot less. And part of that was recognising how my ex H was abusive. Sociopath or not. I still maintain this thread helped me.

 

[Queen Boudica]

And I'm sorry but what you have written above is just a step by step dismissal of all I have written for the purpose of proving your point at any cost

Sorry, he would not get it over psychiatric evaluations that easily if he was a sociopath. Once again, you have turned into a fortune teller by predicting the future. Classic negative thinking style which is causing you lots of negative emotion and thus resulting in anger, being the emotional response.

He has never had a psychiatric evaluation. He saw marriage counsellors and a psychologist women ones, who he charmed and did his little boy, hurt act with and as you said in your previous post they are not qualified to evaluate whether he is a sociopath or not.

This feels like the Spanish inquesition where you are breaking down everything I have written to prove that you are such a clever man and know all about my marriage and my ex H from a few lines I have written when I was in absolute turmoil.

You have absolutely given me no confidence about writing on this forum ever again without having the risk that you will come along and break down what I have written to the nth degree when you disagree with how or what I have phrased something and if I dare to stand up for what I have written and explain why.

For God's sake I was in turmoil trying to find out whether my ex H was a sociopath or not? Breaking down what I wrote then, and telling me what a negative and angry woman I am. Of course I wrote in catastrophised statements I was in an abusive relationship. I reached out for help and I got it.

That has really helped. (Not) Thanks so much.

I trust my psychologist, he is helping me, your motives, well, I just don't know.

 

[mamachick]

I agree with Anthony that in general, people are trying to diagnose sociopaths and are really not able, not just here on this forum, but in general. I am also guilty of that. It is very difficult to do.

One reason I think that I have done this with a former abuser, and maybe other women can relate-once we label them as that, we start attributing behavior to the illness. We correlate their behavior to be consistant of a sociopath. Sociopaths can not be helped no matter what you do. Knowing that-it helps us to never go back. If I believe that this man is in fact a sociopath-I will never go back-it is hopeless.

There are tests that are given to diagnose a sociopath. You cannot tell from talking to a sociopath. The best trained psycologist/psychiatrist may suspect and order personality tests such as the MMPI and others that indicate the diagnosis. Built into the test is a fake factor which few can get past. Someone can be mean as a snake and seem to not care about who they hurt-and not be a sociopath.

The book "the sociopath next door" is a simple read and gives some information that is good to show just how complicated it really is to identify by just experiencing behavior. There are some sociopaths that will treat you really very good. I described two men that I dated that I think were likely sociopaths. The first, I am quite certain of. One reason I am quite certain is that he is a mental health counselor and has had contact with many upscale professionals in the community. (I know of no testing done and sure he would never do such) After I concluded on my own, I discovered that other professionals in the community believed this to be true many years prior. When he had gotten in trouble, others avoided him due to this.

Also, the first time I met his family, his sister made jokes about the last doll she had left from childhood and she would never let him see it. She proceeded to talk about awful things he did to destroy all of her dolls when he was a child. It was not just his current or adult behavior, but some things from his childhood and teens that led me to these beliefs. When he was good-he was the best. He was wonderful, attentive, caring, affectionate, loving, etc. He also tried to convince me of some teenage trauma that caused him to display certain behaviors.

Sociopath or not-if they are abusive and have not changed, time to get rid of them and not look back. Always protect yourself when you see those characteristics.

 

[mamachick]

Lizio-sociopaths can get over on the best professionals during counseling and couples counseling. They can make their partner look crazy. They are good at gaslighting. It takes a trained and skilled thereapist?psychiatrist to diagnose but even at that, they are given a very long extensive written test to be certain.

It is rare that a patient will ever admit they have no conscience, feel no guilt, etc. They have usually spent their life observing others and learning how to fake emotions, saying things like-I feel so guilty for...... I feel so bad that .......When they are caught they know how to clean up their mess verbally by saying the right things.

There are some people who are not sociopaths who do display sociopathic behavior as Anthony said. There is evidence that drugs and alcohol will cause this as well. Which is why it is so important that people get clean for therapy. Those who have abused it enough show sociopathy without a history of a previous diagnosis displayed in youth.

 

[jimmy-joe]

Gotta be honest, I myself have gone through hours and hours and pages and pages and pages of psychological, personality, etc testing throughout treatment. I chose tests on whims to answer all normal to. I chose others to answer part normal, part "crazy" to, and some I went for a specific goal. I didn't do them all perfectly, but I met most of my goals with them (got my hands on a lot of my treatment notes/reports).

I have parts of my mind that would spend a very long and enjoyable time with "morsels" of a particular type. Honestly they would be fine with anyone, but I choose to redirect them a la Dexter. (I'm not saying I actually act on them lol, I still have a healthy respect for the police, if not the law.)

My dad used to take me into the bathroom at church and take me into a stall(or just outside one if it was empty) and make me hurt for not singing well enough. Then (or a little later if he twisted/squeezed/pulled nose too hard) I'd have to clean up and walk back out with a smile on my face, no sign of crying, and go back to the worship service. He did that for years, among other things. He's still a respected member of the church, (though I've been hearing that apparently other people knew, but the source is unreliable) and a respected member of the local branch of a political party.

I don't know if he's a sociopath, but he's hella good at hiding his sadistic side, and I'm hella good at hiding mine (I just let them out to destress somehow, hopefully non-destructive lol, because I'm terrified of becoming like him.), so... in my opinion, it doesn't matter what they are, he's a piece of shit who hurt you. Don't leave your kids alone with him. Don't be alone with him. Honestly he should be dead.

If he raped/beat his sisters, he doesn't respect women. He may be able to gain some control over them via flattery/charisma, but he's still a weak piece of shit. Abuse aside... Lol a cane, cry me a river, what a chunk.

wait wait, I have two cry me a river jokes that now MUST be said.

A) Cry me a river, that I may build a bathhouse over it, and profit from your tears.
B) Cry me a river, that I may put a waterwheel generator upon it, and bring power to my neighbors, while STILL profiting off your lovely tears.

Especially since he's too weak to control other guys lol. If I keep talking I'm just going to keep slinging insults lol.

Oh yea, and I'm not saying that people can't slip up and hurt those around them. But there's a difference between making mistakes and feeding your own desires. My dad delighted in my pain... He may have helped other people a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a perverted piece of shit.

To quote(possibly not word-for-word, but exact concept) from a David Gemmell book, "An artist can spend five years creating a masterpiece sculpture. A man with a heavy hammer can come and tear it down in 5 minutes."

 

[maddog]

Gosh, sad to see such a healthy and productive thread turn so egotistical and harmful...

I think there are very different types of threads posted on this site, for very different reasons, based on very different motivations.

Some are driven by personal distress and a desire to reach out, to connect with support, to mull through difficult and painful and confusing personal shit, and to find sollace in the wonderful, supportive, gently guiding community on this forum.

Some are analytical, insightful, theoretical and seeking debate and discussion.

I believe that it is not difficult, and is in fact incredibly easy, to spot the difference and to tailor one's responses accordingly.

For those who do not wish to partake in the style of thread desired by the original poster, there is a very simple option, involving refraining from responding.

I think it is sad, destructive and potentially devastating when some people choose not to spot and respond to the difference. And I believe it is a choice, because not to do so would infer a lack of perceptiveness and intuition that I do not believe are true of the people who write on this forum.

I am deeply sorry that someone has been needlessly hurt here today. There was no need for it.
I'm disappointed.

And of course who really cares, I am but one responder with an opinion that I could have kept to myself or chosen to send by private post.

But I choose not to, which is also my right.

I'm sorry Lizio.
Hope you're ok...

MD

 

[mamachick]

Well said Maddog.
I am also sorry Lizio. The good thing is that you are away from the abuser regardless of his diagnosis.
It can be very hard to get away from abuse, you have done it and you are a survivor. (((hugs)))