Experiences With Sociopaths

[PTSD sufferer]

((((((((Rain)))))))) (((((((Maddog)))))))))

Where do these psychopaths come from? Are there that many? What makes them like that? It is terrifying that these people exist in society. To get pleasure out of being cruel and sadistic, like a game. What evolutionary purpose does it serve?

Sounds silly, but think I would rather the complex trauma than to be like them. But I guess they must like being like they are. Too horrible to think about.

Hi Lizio,

If you're curious about this read up on Dr Bob Hare and his work. I was like you, curious, I needed to know as much as possible about psychopaths, and I still do. It gives me strength and confidence to know that I might be better prepared for possible encounters...uber vigilance in action...

The discovery of psychopaths came from studies of convicted murderers. This work comprised of three things:

1. Psychological analysis - responses to questions, language, mannerisms, opinions, behaviors, family history/ upbringing etc etc.

2. MRI scans conducted on a group of 'known murderers' and 'lesser' criminals to see if there were any patterns. The brain scans showed that psychopaths are missing large areas of activity in their frontal lobe, and there are substantial differences in the brain patterns associated with the area that houses our pure 'animal instincts'.

3. Genetic analysis.

Some psychologists have commented that the parts of the brain missing are an evolution, as empathy is the one attribute that 'holds us back' from achieving our goals. I strongly disagree with that opinion!!!! Our brains have evolved in one direction for 1,000s of years, and this is not the direction of the evolution. I believe there is massive amount of brain activity that is currently under utilized or not used at all. As we evolve this activity should in increase, not decrease. The fact that areas of 'normal' brain activity are missing and there is a larger area of activity in the 'animal instinct' part of the brain - that makes them behave like animals, is to me a de-evolution.

I once heard estimates that about 25% of the business leaders around today exhibit the traits of psychopathy. Can't remember were I heard that though, so don't quote me on it.

Some researchers argue that a person can have all the above signs of psychopathy and not become a full blow psychopath. The factor this 'group of researchers' believes makes the difference is the psychopaths upbringing. If they had a bad childhood, i.e. suffered from an abusive environment (instead of a loving environment) that is a factor. I can't really comment on that opinion, I don't agree with it, but I have not seen another theories - yet.

Again, if you're really curious. Google Dr Bob Hare. You'll find lots of useful information and links on his website.

P.S. Doesn't sound silly at all Lizio.

 

[ms spock]

I once heard estimates that about 25% of the business leaders around today exhibit the traits of psychopathy. Can't remember were I heard that though, so don't quote me on it.

Yes the research about that made for an interesting read. I thought it was sociopathy but it was a long time ago I read it.

ms spock

 

[PTSD sufferer]

It might well have been Ms Spock :) Can't recall the reference sorry...could be wrong too...dunno.

 

[ms spock]

And PTSD sufferer,

You could be right and I could be wrong!

ms spock

 

[ms spock]

This thread has been so helpful to me.

I cannot express my gratitude for the insight and for mirroring back to me the types of denial, disassociation, derealisation and depersonalisation that I have - my goodness!

ms spock

 

[ms spock]

Hi Lizio,

If you're curious about this read up on Dr Bob Hare and his work.

I went and googled Robert Hare's Web Site devoted to the study of Psychopathy.
Interesting stuff.

Aftermath: Surviving Psychopathy Foundation
A non-profit organization providing information and support for victims of psychopathy.

Don’t wear blinders. Enter new relationships with your eyes wide open. Like the rest of us, most psychopathic con artists and “love-thieves” initially hide their dark side by putting their “best foot forward.” Cracks may soon begin to appear in the mask they wear, but once trapped in their web, it will be difficult to escape financially and emotionally unscathed.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

Well we all want to remove our blinders - my problem is that growing up with people like this I have no idea what normal behaviour is like.

The starting point for our discussion of how to deal with psychopaths is the “Thirteen Rules for Dealing with Sociopaths in Everyday Life” found on pages 156-162 of The Sociopath Next Door by Dr. Martha Stout.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

... prevalence of psychopathy and the various diagnostic terms that are sometimes treated as if they mean the same thing. If you look at the cover of The Sociopath Next Door you will see this statement: “1 in 25 ordinary Americans secretly has no conscience and can do anything at all without feeling guilty.” With this statement and the title of the book, Dr. Stout implies that 4 percent of Americans qualify as sociopaths. Given that her description of sociopathy is virtually the same as that used by investigators and clinicians for the clinical construct of psychopathy, the implication is that 4% of Americans are psychopaths. However, her statement about prevalence is consistent with prevalence estimates for Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD), as defined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), not with studies of psychopathy. Antisocial Personality Disorder overlaps with but is not the same as psychopathy.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

2. Don’t blame yourself. Whatever the reasons for being involved with a psychopath, it is important that you not accept blame for his or her attitudes and behavior. Psychopaths play by the same rules-their rules-with everyone.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

8. Use support groups. By the time your suspicions have led you to seek a diagnosis, you already know that you’re in for a very long and bumpy ride. Make sure you have all the emotional support you can muster.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

ms spock

 

[ms spock]

borderline PD — have some features of psychopathy Since most family members will not have a confirmation of the “psychopathy” diagnosis, it is important to understand that if a person seems to have many of these traits and is abusive and/or violent, he or she can be dangerous.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

It too me so long to get this one.
ms spock

 

[ms spock]

2. In a contest between your instincts and what is implied by the role a person has taken on—educator, doctor, leader, animal-lover, humanist, parent—go with your instincts.

That premise is that the average person can reliably tell a “psychopath” from everyone else — or as the rule states, your gut will guide you. In reality, by the time you have figured out that the person you are involved with may be disordered in this way, you are probably already way too involved.

Another problem with this rule is that some of us can trust our instincts — and some of us really cannot. Some of us have been so stepped on or controlled by others that we have lost contact with our instincts, our own sense of competency. Some of us are also so used to unhealthy emotions guiding our behavior (whether resentment, loneliness, anxiety, guilt) that we really should not trust our instincts until we have dealt with our own issues.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

I relate to this so much!
ms spock

 

[Queen Boudica]

Another problem with this rule is that some of us can trust our instincts — and some of us really cannot. Some of us have been so stepped on or controlled by others that we have lost contact with our instincts, our own sense of competency. Some of us are also so used to unhealthy emotions guiding our behavior (whether resentment, loneliness, anxiety, guilt) that we really should not trust our instincts until we have dealt with our own issues.

I relate to this so much!
ms spock

Me too. I have this thing where I can believe one thing one moment and completely talk myself out of it the next (and back again) I do say all the time "I know and....... I don't know", "I do and I don't" And it is true. I have a gut instinct there somewhere, but it gets so denied by the other doubts it gets lost.

And if there is someone who is actively convincing me to not go with my already beaten up and denied gut instinct, well I will go for what they are saying because they know better than me always. And then maybe I will sit down later and think about it and think "What the f***k have I just agreed to!"

Even when I do go for my gut instinct, I torture myself about whether I am wrong, trying to find reasons to justify whether I am right or wrong. Always have to get down to the proof and that is never enough anyway :eek:

Just never trust myself need so much validation. It is so overwhelming just to make a stupid little decision sometimes.

 

[ms spock]

It is so overwhelming just to make a stupid little decision sometimes.

When the PTSD reactions are coursing through our veins, our nervous system, altering metabolic rates, effecting our respiratory systems and even stressing out our excretory systems no decision is a stupid little decision. When you are stuck in flight, fright, freeze etc responses your poor little body is on high alert and it is hard to remember things and it is hard to make decisions. I really know that so very, very well.
ms spock

 

[ms spock]

2. If you recognize that you are romantically involved with an adult exhibiting psychopathic features and yet you are committed to maintaining the relationship or your contact with this person, question your own motives for maintaining the relationship.

Sometimes people who have fallen in love with psychopaths have a very difficult time letting go. If you can’t let go and you desire to have a relationship with someone you believe is psychopathic, there is something wrong with your thinking, and you should consider getting professional help. It may be tempting to keep convincing yourself that the person will change. (See Martha Stout’s Rule # 10.) It may be tempting to keep ignoring the contradictions between what the person says and does. You may keep suppressing your sense of doubt and mistrust due to the fear of being alone again. Knowing at some level how great a loss you will face if you have to lose the person you had decided would be your partner-in-life may be more than you want to deal with, and you may be willing to do almost anything to avoid that kind of grief or mourning. Aftermath’s members would advise you that the person you have given your love to does not exist— and is in fact a figment of your imagination constructed by the predator who has caught you in his/her web of deceit.
http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE SURFING.htm

Gosh Lizio,

Thanks for stating this thread it is really clarified some things for me.

I have been in the above as well.

My parents/family are all so destructive, neither of my parents have a conscience and they are both stellar performers.

My fantasy is that one day my family will behave like real people. That they will be a real family and love me. Total fictitious unrealistic, denial hope story in my head.

It is hard to let go of your family because they are without conscience and scruples.
ms spock

 

[Queen Boudica]

And even though H has moved out yesterday. I am feeling so guilty now and so doubting myself. Even though I know it is right and I feel relieved. I can see the doubts creep in. Jesus!

Does not help that he is collecting all his stuff and moping around looking miserable (which I guess is a reasonable thing) and he is moving into such a tiny studio flat.

And in the back of my head, the risk he commits suicide. It is so there in my head.

God, maybe it is good to be a sociopath, then you don't have to feel so guilty and wrong. It is all right. You are always right. That must be so amazing. I think I would just like to feel like that for one day or even week and know what it was like.

Perhaps that would make a good Hollywood movie, paranoid, anxious complex trauma housewife has body/mind swap with high powered sociopath. (you know, like freaky Friday) I'd like Julia Roberts to play me thanks.