Fear Of Rejection So Deep That It Shows No Matter What

[WorkOfFire]

Hello everyone. I believe that I have a form of PTSD that is rooted in rejection by my parents. Utter rejection from my father and emotional abuse and insurmountable walls with my mother.

The net effect is that I am 43 years old and I have never had a relationship that lasted longer than 6 months. Really more like 3 months, because that 6 month one was dragged out by the simple fact that I lived in the apartment above the girl and we morphed into friends with benefits. And when I say 3 months... well that only happened twice and that was about 20 years ago or more. ALL of the rest lasted less than 2 and most of them, just never even really happened. No matter how much I work on remaining cool and not over investing, they sense something and they leave permanently. They don't fade out slowly. They don't say, "I just want to be friends". They don't really tell me why. I have had on again off again sorts of arrangements with a few women over the years that were something like friends with benefits, but we weren't really friends in any real sense of the word, and I knew from the start to the finish, no matter how much I wished I could develop feelings for them, that I just plain never would "fall" for them.

With every single woman I have ever actually felt a strong connection with, sometimes by becoming acquainted as friends first, sometimes through a handful of dates, once we get close to even beginning a relationship. They just leave. The last one told me that we would get together for drinks when I got back from my vacation at about 2pm. Which was fine with me, because I had told myself that I didn't have all my eggs in one basket and was perfectly willing to take it slow or however, just to get to know each other. I had actually just gotten off the phone with a very attractive girl whose number I had just picked up a few nights before. My confidence was high. Or so I thought. The woman in question started a text conversation with me and suddenly in the middle she tells me "I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to stop talking to you now" "You're great and if you don't know it you should, but you're not what I'm looking for." I could think to myself was, well that pretty much sums up my whole life. I crumbled into a heap and started crying uncontrollably. I don't think I would have been so upset if I had been married to her for 10 years and she said she was leaving me for my brother. The fact that I was ONCE AGAIN rejected even before I could really begin, with someone that I found to be very rare... It's been a month and it feels like 5 minutes ago. I'm lucky I haven't been fired or worse.

And all this from a relationship that didn't even exist. I'm not an idiot. I have studied all this stuff and I have tried to do everything they say to do to boost my confidence and stick to reality and not create imaginary relationships before they begin, but it all happens subconsciously and she can see it. She feels like I'm putting her on a pedastal or that I am too emotional or needy and POOF!!!

I don't know what my question is. I just noticed that everything I read here is from people who have actually had relationships, so I was wondering if any man out there has had the problem I have and has found a way to get passed that road block, because after nearly 30 years of attempted relationships, mine are only getting shorter.

 

[The Albatross]

I had to take a hard look at the people I was attracting. At one point in my mid twenties I decided I had a neon sign flashing over my head that said "Drug abusers, alcoholics, walking wounded, emotional cripples - here's your girl!" I had to be willing to date out of what I was attracted to.

Sounds awful to say, but at first and even second or third glance, my present husband was not my "type". I had a broken "people picker". Several other girls and I made the agreement that we would date the next man who asked who was "not our type. I've been married for 23 years and together for almost 28 now.

I am though concerned that you appear to have self diagnosed yourself with PTSD but your first post has to do with getting the ladies and a relationship? With all due respect, bringing into a woman into relationship with you is like marlin fishing with an ultra light rod and 12 pound test line. I hope you address it or would like to share how you were able to determine this for yourself? There is a an article here on self diagnosis. It is a solid read.

 

[WillyKat]

I agree with Albatross about the PTSD diagnosis. I don't mean any offense but it's not clear if you've been diagnosed.

That said, I understand completely about failing with women. I'm like Albatross in the sense of having a neon sign on my forehead. I'm attracted to emotionally distant / unavailable women. I even married one.

Let us know about your PTSD diagnosis and other symptoms. Thanks.

 

[Loner]

A lot of this rings true with me. I'm posting the link to a thread I made about some of my issues with people. You might find some interesting things you can relate to in there as it sounds like we have similar issues and thought patterns. I only really started to figure it out on page two, you might find my posts on page one to have some value to you but the later ones are the ones where I am most clearly seeing things for what they are. I'll just say this, for a long time despite feeling like I was failing to connect with people, I was actually sabotaging myself while doing so and making sure I didn't succeed.

[DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/i-think-im-sabotaging-myself.31014/page-2[/DLMURL]

 

[WorkOfFire]

Hi. No, I wasn't officially diagnosed as PTSD. I was once diagnosed in about 5 minutes by a social worker as being bipolar. I tried their medication for about a month. It did nothing positive at all. Just made me stupid and in a fog, but still crying all day. This was shortly after I had some major losses in my life, including a family member and my favorite dog ever both died, and a girl who was my best friend, but then I fell for her and she dumped me like a bag of rocks in the river. Oh and I lost my job, had to move to another state and live with my parents to try and recover, so I lost contact with pretty much everyone I knew, except for the afore mentioned verbally abusive mother. I was 31 then. The failure alone was devastating to deal with.

Quite frankly, as far as PTSD, I guess you could put any name on it you like, but when I get flash backs to being a little kid sitting in the woods crying, because my "dad" didn't pick me up as promised, whenever I get rejected, and then I become physically disabled for days with uncontrollable emotions and a feeling of great grief and panic that lasts weeks, I suppose there could be all sorts of diagnosis. I've had 8 major panic attacks that are completely unrelated to current emotional stimulus, by the way. I see trauma that caused indelible pain and anger inside me. I didn't even know it was there in my 20's, not really. I guess my coping mechanism was total denial then. I was so sure that I had high self esteem and that I was going to conquer the world that I couldn't see what everyone else, or at least the women I was interested in could see with their eyes closed.

"With all due respect, bringing into a woman into relationship with you is like marlin fishing with an ultra light rod and 12 pound test line." -- Not exactly the sort of thing I was looking to hear.

Look, I'm not sure, I'm considering seeing a psychiatrist, now that I have health benefits for the first time in about 20 years, but I've done a ton of work on myself in the past decade or so and I know enough to know that if anybody is going to do it, it has to be me. I honestly feel like my primary problem is getting over that initial road block of falling too soon, of getting in too deep too fast and scaring people away. Beyond that I am a VERY likable and personable fellow with a zillion qualities that anybody would love to enjoy. I truly believe that. I'm a self built man. I grew up without any positive role models, but I have cobbled a model together myself, through lots of soul searching and figuring out what I believe in in this social world we live in. So it took me longer to get here, especially considering that I didn't even realize I needed to do it. I grew up erroneously believing that gender roles were a bunch of nonsense. Another self-sabotaging behavior. I'd somehow blame the women for being fools for believing in outdated concepts instead of recognizing that it was, after all, I who chose them, so who's really the fool?

All that said, there is no doubt, that I take rejection incredibly hard. Maybe it's not PTSD, maybe it just plain getting burned over and over and over creating a naturally defensive reaction. That certainly adds to it. An exponential snowball effect. Every time it happens, every time I see a relationship just plain WALK away before it really begins, and every time I'm older, and I feel like time is running out, and it usually takes 6 or 7 years between finding one I can fall for and just spending 6 years feeling lonely and not even meeting anyone at all that I could begin to relate to... well every time it just hits that much harder, because I tell myself there are only 2 possibilities: Either it is beyond my control and I'm never going to get over it OR I can do something about it, but I failed again, and God knows when I'll get another chance or if I'll be ready by then.

Human being are NOT supposed to be alone. Mammals die simply from being separated from their packs or litters. This is a biological, physical reality. It becomes a Catch-22. Nobody wants a needy person.

But don't tell me that I shouldn't want to be in a relationship because I am a broken person or something. Everyone has problems. Everyone has shortcomings and fears. Mine just happens to like to show up with incredibly terrible timing. It "nips" my relationships in the bud, before they can begin. I see all sorts of people IN relationships dealing with stuff. Hell, that is really kind of the whole point of my original post. Almost every post I read on this sight is talking about dealing with PTSD or similar problems WITHIN a relationship. I have never EVER met a perfect person, and I am perfectly willing to deal with my own problems AND my partners problems as they come. I just want someone to SHOW UP.

 

[saffy]

Hi WorkofFire

I understand what it is like to fear rejection. It is a heavy burden to hold onto making it difficult to allow something to go forward.

I realised I was making it worse by taking a rejection as a personal attack that something must be wrong with me. That someone would leave me as soon as they could and I would feel it was because I was not good enough. I had to convince myself that I was and that their choice was based on personal choices rather than personal attacks.

Everyone is entitled to choose, including you :)

Don't believe that you have to settle just to have someone, the person has to be right for you.

What are you looking for in a partner? What sort of person is he, what qualities would he have?

I too spent years alone fearing something out of my control. I had to stop internalising and projecting my feelings onto others and set my self standards and boundaries. I had to slow down and not think there was something wrong with me because I was always single, I just attracted the wrong type of person because I was unsure of what I really wanted.

It made it harder for me because I had to learn as I went along, inevitably I felt unsure and it raised that rejection head again. I made it worse with the way I behaved too. So something had to change. :)

No body is perfect either, everyone has flaws and personal issues, most are not as intense as you might experience.

Because of these intense feelings it is important to know what you want and how you expect to feel. If you feel negatively then the person is not compatible to your needs. It is more about the type of person they are rather than who you are.

Take your time to get to know yourself and what you want and things start to get easier, I promise, it did for me. :)

best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[WorkOfFire]

I think I forgot to say thanks to everyone for their responses. Thanks, it means alot to even have a conversation about these things.

One reason why I might actually go to therapy, because I think I might be ready to kind of "let out" some things that have been living inside me forever. Because NOW I at least know that they are in there. Denial is amazingly powerful and I find it hard to even believe how many years I spent occupying my mind with all manner of different scenarios that I needed to work on and they were all pretty much distractions from the real issues; from my real history.

saffy, I have had nothing BUT time, but for so so long it was grueling torturous time. Working hard low wage jobs because my work history was destroyed by emotional melt downs. I didn't SHOW these emotions to anyone. No, heaven forbid. But I would call in or come in late, or be up all night with insomnia and then sleep through alarms. I can still do it, if I'm not careful. Fortunately, I currently have a salaried job and I can work at my own pace so long as I get things done. If this were not the case, I would have been fired from this job too, for sure, because back in March, when that woman rejected me, it is just really hard for me to explain just how much like a nuclear explosion it was for me.

I've done a lot of self help reading and one source was about recovering from being dumped. He said that you should expect to feel like you are on a roller coaster and that the hills and valleys will slowly start to come less frequently and level out. I think of it like shockwaves, like ripples on a pond. Even now, over a month later, when I think about it, or one of those waves hits me, it simply amazes me how strong it is. I met her because she was somewhat recently divorced single mom of three girls, one of which was on my neice's T-Ball team on which I was a coach. I have no kids, but I'm very close to my brother's kids and we live very close to one another. Anyway, I'm just trying to show the situation and how I guess NOT serious it was. I just saw her "around" for awhile, but I found her to be singularly attractive so I told myself I was not going to let the season end without getting her number. Technically, we already had her number, but you know what I mean. Well, I got it, and we hit off a really fun repoire of texting back and forth. She is a very funny girl and our senses of humor seemed to mesh quite well. I found out that she was the class clown. This went on for many months, with a big lull in the middle. And that's all it was. Texting buddies. Until one day. She stopped by the office to pick up a trophy for her daughter and as unexpected as the visit was, I could just feel this chemistry between us and sure enough, we started texting again like every day. I'd say about 1500+ texts in 6 weeks. (I'm a computer programmer I know how to get those things counted fast :) )

I put a bid on a house and it was accepted. My first ever house. I'm in it now and it is awesome. (but lonely) I texted everyone I knew about it I think. She responded saying, "That's awesome! Congrats...Come down and join me and some friends out on the town..." I hesitated at first, but I went. I was pleasantly surprised that she lit up smiley and hugged me twice as soon as she saw me. We hit it off all night. After, she was the one who texted me saying " I had a great time. We need to do that again soon." And she went about figuring out when she would have a free night from her daughters and informing me of the process. We texted pretty much all the time, just jokes and funny stuff. It was good times. 2 weeks later, we were supposed to go out that weekend and she pretty much whiffed on me. I mean right up until a couple days before the weekend, she was talking about it, again, all without my prodding, I was letting her chase me if she wanted, but it just didn't happen.

So I played it cool and instead of bugging her about it, I just went out myself and had a great night singing karaoke and hanging out with my "friends". I'm a very social person and I make friends easy, I just don't get close easy, and never seem to have anyone calling me, but that's another story. Then, she basically out of nowhere, booty called me on Saturday night/early Sunday morning. I could not, or at least did not, resist. I quickly picked her up, brought her home and we had very loud sex for hours and hours. The beginning of the end. We talked and talked about our histories and high school and lots of personal stuff. We went to breakfast and talked more. But then she got cold just as I was driving her home. She didn't hug me as she left and just said, "see ya later"

I waited about 2 days and we started texting again. Everything seemed fine. Still making jokes, still her texting me "night, night" as she went to bed. Maybe slightly more intimate topics. And, at first, I didn't press to get her back out again. I guess about 3 weeks went buy. I was growing anxious, because I was about to go on a 2 week vacation followed by a long visit from my mother immediately after. None of which I had scheduled, but my family had arranged and I felt somewhat obliged to do my part in. That is to make the point that I did not feel like I could get out of it without causing drama. So here I was staring at leaving in a few days and I had not seen her in person in 3 weeks, so, to tack another 4 weeks onto the back of that ( I wasn't letting her come anywhere near my mother who once chased a girlfriend from my house with a poker from the fire place ) I was panicking. With spring break etc... if I didn't have a chance to charm her, to share some quality time with her, to show her more me, then I .... well you get the thought process.

FEAR OF REJECTION TIME. I texted too much. I slipped up and told her she was a beautiful woman. I killed it.

And that's it. that's the whole damn non-relationship. Looks like nothing right? Well it's more than I've had in 10 years. One way or another, I kill it. I don't want them after I get them, I can't get them, I can't talk to anyone because I let myself go and become a slug for awhile. etc...

And when she sent me that message. "I'm sorry, but I know now that you have feelings for me, and I just don't feel the same way. I'm going to have to stop talking to you now. I'm sorry. You are great. and If you don't know it then you should, but your just not what I'm looking for." I just crumbled. I felt worse than I've felt maybe ever, including when people have died. The feeling was so all encompassing. My brain entered into an electrical storm of chaos. I cried until my eyes hurt and ran out of tears, then just sobbed. Then slept. Then woke up, remembered reality and started all over again. 3 days straight like that from the moment of inception. I finally got up and made myself work one day, then came the weekend and I spent that either drinking, sleeping or crying, or possibly all three at once, if that's possible. Somehow I managed to only send her maybe 4 more texts. Amazing considering. But then the ones I sent were needy, or talking about how wonderful she is and how I'd love to throw her to the moon. One where I lashed out about her using me. The next one apologizing for the last one and saying I didn't mean that, I really loved the time we had and I hope all is well. Take care.

It would possibly all seem ridiculously foolish to me if it weren't such a pattern for me.

This woman was definitely a vast improvement over all the rest mind you. All the rest I ever had a chance with, because a chance is all I get. And never a second one.

I've fallen for addicts, abusers, women with BPD and narcissistic tendencies (like my mother). I didn't see any of that is this woman. Maybe it's there, but I just didn't know her well enough, but still, anyway you cut it, a woman who is responsible enough to get her 3 daughters ALL to their ball practices is alright by me. The booty call was a flag. I think she was testing me and I failed.

I just wrote EVEN more believe it or not, but the site whited out and erased it. I'm going to leave it at that for now and go.

Apologies for rambling on and on and on. Argh.

 

[saffy]

And when she sent me that message.

but your just not what I'm looking for

Hi WorkofFire

There is no need to apologise for getting things off your chest and discussing things that bother you. How else are you going to grow and learn about yourself and others? :hug:

I understand that pattern. I have followed it many times.

I would like to comment on something, is that is ok?

One: Maybe she just does not want a full on relationship but just thought it was going to be just a bit of fun.

You kept your cool and kept all communication fun and jokey. On both sides you can see that you felt it nice to find someone that was a laugh and seemed happy and content and for you she might have potential to be the type of person that would not abuse you, due to her already having kids and being organised.

She, on the other hand, might have thought, great a person I can have a bit of fun with that is cool enough not to be too clingy, I have three kids already to deal with at is it? or, I am just not in the position to be in a full on relationship at the moment. Only speculating, we cannot read her mind. :)

all without my prodding, I was letting her chase me if she wanted, but it just didn't happen.

Why let her chase you? To her it might have seemed you had lost interest by not prodding, did she realise you wanted her to chase you?

Why did you want her to chase you? This 'testing and waiting to see' only leads to confusion, you are relying on certain behaviours based on your lack of self esteem and confidence. 'If he chases me it will prove he is into me', but I have learnt this must go both ways to work.

Sometimes we just do loose interest or discover after knowing someone a bit longer that they are not actually compatible after all or you realise you have different needs.

Two: you slept with her way too quickly and I would have guessed she was pretty drunk when she called for booty? She might have felt shameful in the morning? we all get brave on drink, again speculation.

Getting the booty call probably raised your self esteem, she is into me after all. However, you still do not know each other well enough or discussed where you want the relationship, if any, to go. Remember it is still based on coolness and fun. You might want something long term, she might want someone to make her feel like a woman sometimes but does not want a full on relationship? again speculation.

I waited about 2 days and we started texting again.

Two days, that was casual. Who contacted who?

I texted too much. I slipped up and told her she was a beautiful woman. I killed it.

You both text each other by the way. You were not stalking her after all. Can I ask how it killed it? Can she not take compliments? maybe she has confidence and self esteem issues too?

I can totally understand your feelings, I promise you that, it is like a wave of emotions, mostly based on inner criticising dialogue and projecting of feelings and assumptions.

But at no time when reading your story did I see that there was anything wrong with you personally, although you feel that there is. Lack of communication about what you want and how you feel from both sides, stirred with some self esteem and confidence issues on both sides. But I can see you are a caring person longing to be loved and to love back.

It is interesting to read that you chose this girl because she seems a safe bet on the outside. Someone bringing kids up and getting them to their place on time. So really you are looking for is someone caring and reliable with a good sense of humour. But what else?

What are the other qualities you expect from a partner?

But then the ones I sent were needy

What needs are you trying to fulfil? There is nothing wrong with trying to get your needs met, however, the focus of any relationship should not be based solely on needs that will boost your esteem or confidence or to fill a loneliness void.

If both parties went in to a relationship based on personal needs only or for the wrong reason then abuse and rejection will of course follow. And that goes both ways.

To put it bluntly you have to have common interests and out look and want the same thing at the same time. It is not a bad reflection on anyone for wanting different things or changing of minds. As long as there is honesty and communication. With this comes trust. With trust you have openness. With openness you develop the relationship and your needs are met. If that makes sense. :)

I always understood that fear of rejection is an internalisation of how you feel about yourself and how you portray others. It makes you try harder than you need to be and to be a certain type of person to avoid the possibility of them wanting to leave. Which in the end is not the real you, it is the scared and confused you. :)

Personally, I failed to consider that they had their own issues and that I was scared to show my own feelings properly or to communicate effectively to allow a more mature and even relationship.

I think you are doing the right thing talking about it and even trying therapy, not knowing what you want or how to feel or how to recognise or control your own feelings as well as recognising them as being as important as the other persons can keep things back and down.

I found this and have it on the wall which I refer to quite often :)

Ten commandments of smart dating:
1: Have boundaries
2. Don't allow yourself to be treated as an option
3. Don't let yourself be used for sex
4. Only date with your self esteem in tow
5. it is imperative to date beyond your comfort zone
6 Don't let sexual organs make decisions for you
7. Don't ever, ever, ever get involved with attached people. FLUSH
8. Don't let yourself be managed by text or email.
9. Be a person or action and trust your gut.

Best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[gio_marino]

Ten commandments of smart dating:
1: Have boundaries
2. Don't allow yourself to be treated as an option
3. Don't let yourself be used for sex
4. Only date with your self esteem in tow
5. it is imperative to date beyond your comfort zone
6 Don't let sexual organs make decisions for you
7. Don't ever, ever, ever get involved with attached people. FLUSH
8. Don't let yourself be managed by text or email.
9. Be a person or action and trust your gut.

I really like this! Thank you! :)