Gaslighting? Is this a form of it or something else.

[Quassus]

I'm starting to realize I don't trust myself at all when it comes to how I view the past. I don't trust my choices. I don't trust my memories. I don't trust my opinions. Nothing. Someone asked me if I was maybe gaslighted growing up so I cant see it. Made me think!

Over the years when ever confronted by us ( me and my siblings) about how dysfunctional life was and things that happened, my mother especially, would say " OH, you had it good. You don't know what a bad life is. You have nothing to complain about. Or " I gave up everything for you. You were lucky. " and so on. It was minimizing it so that you questioned your own reality.

Often God was used to justify their contol over us. And they would tell us what God did or didn't want. They would tell us that made God happy and what didn't. " God gives us special ability to know better then you what you should do. " " God isn't pleased, you need to listen to us". The crazy thing is, even as a child I thought if they were close to God..it wasn't doing them much good because they acted horrible. But nope. They were closer to God then me. Didn't trust myself.

It was always meant to make us dependent and questioning our ability to know anything. To never think for ourselves. My mom still says she knows better about things because she is older. She has improved some from finally getting counseling but when around her for more then a few hours...it starts creeping back in. She will make you feel guilty for the good in your life, as if someone we owe her the good or betray her by having it.

And my father was more about never telling anyone anything that happened at home. Threatening us not too.

And another big one. They taught us to distrust anyone outside of the family because they are not the parents and they are just " worldly minded" people. So you didn't talk because you questioned your own discernemnt...and because people outside of the home were not trustworthy. They were worldly and would leave you astray. Plus, God would be angry if you talk about your parents.

I guess this doesn't seem like typical gaslighting. But it does feel similar and causes similar results in me. Always questioning myself and if I remembered right or if it was really that bad...or if I'm over reacting. Maybe it's something different and maybe it doesn't matter if it was..but sometimes having a term for something helps to recognize it. I still mistrust myself for even thinking about any of this. Like I'm going into dangerous territory. Like questioning them will bring me to eternal ruin or something...it's all so messed up.

 

[Dynamic]

I sense how difficult this is for you and I hear that you felt invalidated in your struggles, or minimized frequently? Is that true?

 

[Quassus]

I sense how difficult this is for you and I hear that you felt invalidated in your struggles, or minimized frequently? Is that true?

Yes or course. My opinions/feelings didn't matter.

 

[Friday]

Oh, it’s the Abuse/DV-101 Playbook.

Gaslighting is probably the least of it; isolating (from any Avenue of support, strength, someone who would fight for you or question them), destroying self confidence, shattering the ability to trust others, blaming the victim (look at what you made me do) guilt & shame spirals, deifying, absolutism… the list goes on and on.

The fastest shorthand I know for “just” gaslighting = “Who are you going to believe? Me, or your own eyes?” <<< The sky isn’t blue, it’s red. The lights are bright, not dim.

The DV/Abuse-101 playbook? Is waaaaaaay more complex, insidious, long lasting than simple gaslighting. Gaslighting is very much a page IN that book, but only a page. Not even a chapter.

Gaslighting is a form of abuse.
Rather than abuse being a form of gaslighting.
All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

 

[Quassus]

Oh, it’s the Abuse/DV-101 Playbook.

Gaslighting is probably the least of it; isolating (from any Avenue of support, strength, someone who would fight for you or question them), destroying self confidence, shattering the ability to trust others, blaming the victim (look at what you made me do) guilt & shame spirals, deifying, absolutism… the list goes on and on.

Wow that describes it so well. It's going to take time for my brain to catch up to the reality of it. It's opened a crack..but man it's hard to break free from something so ingrained in you. It helps to hear someone ( other than my T) say that it isn't proper. Now to work on breaking free...

 

[caylee]

I'm sorry for all you've gone through. It's worth taking a moment to recognize how much you're overcoming. Being able to put this all into words and recognize the manipulation you lived through is a huge accomplishment. It's that self-awareness that leads to moving on. I too question and doubt myself and my perception of things. I believe my history of gaslighting is at the root of it. We have to learn to trust ourselves again. When you find yourself doubting yourself, remember the reason you feel that way, let that sink in, and try to reframe your thoughts. Your judgement is valid and it's important to take it seriously. That said, don't beat yourself up for thinking the way you do now. It was ingrained in you. Reframing your thoughts doesn't come overnight. It takes time. I promise you, nothing bad will happen because you trust yourself. Deep down, you know that.

 

[Paul007]

I'm sorry for all you've gone through. It's worth taking a moment to recognize how much you're overcoming. Being able to put this all into words and recognize the manipulation you lived through is a huge accomplishment. It's that self-awareness that leads to moving on. I too question and doubt myself and my perception of things. I believe my history of gaslighting is at the root of it. We have to learn to trust ourselves again. When you find yourself doubting yourself, remember the reason you feel that way, let that sink in, and try to reframe your thoughts. Your judgement is valid and it's important to take it seriously. That said, don't beat yourself up for thinking the way you do now. It was ingrained in you. Reframing your thoughts doesn't come overnight. It takes time. I promise you, nothing bad will happen because you trust yourself. Deep down, you know that.

Thank you for sharing this I would like to talk more with you is that possible in future thanks again

 

[caylee]

Thank you for sharing this I would like to talk more with you is that possible in future thanks again

absolutely

 

[Quassus]

I'm sorry for all you've gone through. It's worth taking a moment to recognize how much you're overcoming. Being able to put this all into words and recognize the manipulation you lived through is a huge accomplishment. It's that self-awareness that leads to moving on. I too question and doubt myself and my perception of things. I believe my history of gaslighting is at the root of it. We have to learn to trust ourselves again. When you find yourself doubting yourself, remember the reason you feel that way, let that sink in, and try to reframe your thoughts. Your judgement is valid and it's important to take it seriously. That said, don't beat yourself up for thinking the way you do now. It was ingrained in you. Reframing your thoughts doesn't come overnight. It takes time. I promise you, nothing bad will happen because you trust yourself. Deep down, you know that.

I so appreciate the encouragement! It's very hard to trust myself but I am working on it and your words are helpful

 

[Movingforward10]

I was the same. Totally didn't trust my memories or accounts of things because the message was they were wrong.

For example: the time my mum got my oldest sister to pin me down so mum could pull my tooth out. I was wrong that this was upsetting. It was funny, according to me mum. Still to this day she finds this an amazing story to recount. If I suggest it was abusive the hysteria starts with "oh I must be a terrible mother" and then my dad would chime in with "now you have upset your mother" etc. So no conversation can be had as it is then all deflected and made about my mum's feelings.
This happens with absolutely everything. Whether a big or small account of something.

Even to the point of my father's funeral recently: she sent me and middle sister an email about it as if we weren't there and as if he wasn't our father!

That gaslighting is horrific. It makes you doubt yourself and your feelings. I now know that if something doesn't feel real, it means more likely that it is. And I then learnt to trust it.
It was especially confusing with abuse and memories resurfacing. But I'm got there now.

I hope you get to a place of trusting yourself. And I am sorry for the emotional manipulation of reality that you have been through. It's dangerous abuse.

 

[Roland]

I'm starting to realize I don't trust myself at all when it comes to how I view the past. I don't trust my choices. I don't trust my memories. I don't trust my opinions. Nothing. Someone asked me if I was maybe gaslighted growing up so I cant see it. Made me think!

Over the years when ever confronted by us ( me and my siblings) about how dysfunctional life was and things that happened, my mother especially, would say " OH, you had it good. You don't know what a bad life is. You have nothing to complain about. Or " I gave up everything for you. You were lucky. " and so on. It was minimizing it so that you questioned your own reality.

Often God was used to justify their contol over us. And they would tell us what God did or didn't want. They would tell us that made God happy and what didn't. " God gives us special ability to know better then you what you should do. " " God isn't pleased, you need to listen to us". The crazy thing is, even as a child I thought if they were close to God..it wasn't doing them much good because they acted horrible. But nope. They were closer to God then me. Didn't trust myself.

It was always meant to make us dependent and questioning our ability to know anything. To never think for ourselves. My mom still says she knows better about things because she is older. She has improved some from finally getting counseling but when around her for more then a few hours...it starts creeping back in. She will make you feel guilty for the good in your life, as if someone we owe her the good or betray her by having it.

And my father was more about never telling anyone anything that happened at home. Threatening us not too.

And another big one. They taught us to distrust anyone outside of the family because they are not the parents and they are just " worldly minded" people. So you didn't talk because you questioned your own discernemnt...and because people outside of the home were not trustworthy. They were worldly and would leave you astray. Plus, God would be angry if you talk about your parents.

I guess this doesn't seem like typical gaslighting. But it does feel similar and causes similar results in me. Always questioning myself and if I remembered right or if it was really that bad...or if I'm over reacting. Maybe it's something different and maybe it doesn't matter if it was..but sometimes having a term for something helps to recognize it. I still mistrust myself for even thinking about any of this. Like I'm going into dangerous territory. Like questioning them will bring me to eternal ruin or something...it's all so messed up.

This sounds like gaslighting and psychological abuse in general. I grew up with that kind of crap too. It was hard for me to recognize when other people in my life did it too. But once you see it, you can’t unsee it. Normal people don’t spin your mind in circles all the time lol.