Gender Issues

[Upside Down Eagle]

For me, gender is a huge issue. To explain myself further: when I was a kid, my mom was like the man of the house. She physically abused me, and tried to do the same thing with my dad (which was more difficult). She even threathened to kill him (almost did once, right in front of me!) and otherwise just bossed him around all the time and made his life (and mine) miserable.

My dad was more like the woman (I know I talk in stereotypes, but just for the sake of explanation). He let my mom walk all over him. He was too loving, he loved her so much that he would just forgive her behavior and hope it would get better. He was very understanding towards me, and sometimes defended me from her, but not enough to stop her from beating me around. Anyway...!

So I grew up wanting to be a dude. Because I wanted to be able to defend myself. Up to this day, I still have moments where I hate to be a female, with a slender body. Sometimes I just wish I looked like a total bodybuilder so that everybody would be afraid of me, and I wonder whether anyone recognizes this? Also, I like to keep relationships distant. I like to just give people a handshake and not the usual kisses on the cheek.

I love to pretend that I don't give a (fill in yourself), most of the time. Then of course eventually I break down, but it takes a while. Like every other human being, I want to give love and be loved back, but as soon as this happens, or as soon as someone expects something from me (specially on the intimate level) I back off and shove them far away from me. Nowadays I'm fine with the fact that I'm not a man, but it's still hard because people frequently don't seem to understand the combination girl/distant or agressive.

 

[rightkindofme]

I am a cis-gendered woman but I am frequently rebuked for "acting like a man" so I think I understand part of what you are talking about. Are you familiar with Kate Bornstein and her work? It sounds like you are not all the way into trans territory but I have learned a lot about gender by reading trans specific writing.

It's kind of funny that you want to be nurturing like a man. I get it, when men are of the nurturing sort they tend to be incredibly compassionate and gentle and loving. I feel like nurturing from women comes with more baggage about expectations. Mothers have a very different dynamic than fathers. I'm not speaking from personal experience--I didn't have a male figure growing up.

If you look for computer geeks/sci-fi geeks/role-playing game geeks then you will find folks who understand distant/aggressive women. You will still have to give people time to get to know you and get to understand your unique quirks but overall these groups already have tropes for violent/scary/difficult women. You can decide how much you want to play with them.

You are just fine how you are. You don't have to be a man in order to have the behavioral or personality quirks you admire from your dad. You can be any combination of attitudes you want to be. It really doesn't matter how your genitals are shaped.

Good luck.

 

[Springer80]

Hi....I wouldn't feel guilty about this. Biological gender and the gender we identify with and sexuality are different things. I was abused by my father, my world was very masculine and my mother, pretty much my only consistent female presence was always running herself ragged practically and non existent emotionally. I didn't see any benfit in a being a girl, there wasn't any.

I have at times been 'sexually' attracted to women although I think this was a mixture of feeling more safety regarding my physical integrity around women, therefore that safety bred confidence and therefore lust. Also attractive women made it safe o feel aroused by femininity when I was afraid of owning my own but crucially I don't feel like I could have a relationship with nor fall in love with a woman.

I think most/all even people question there sexuality even if its just for a second or to at some point. The thing with us is hat questioning is linked to something horrible so where as you may feel able to chat about it, shame tries to lock you up.

I didn't start to feel okay with being a 'girl' until I was 29 (3 yrs ago) and even if I do say so myself, I've been reasonably blessed in the looks department but I cannot use what I've got to the extent that people expect me to able.

I wanted to suggest a book by a writer a greatly admire...Jeanette Wintersons, 'Why be Happy, When you can be Normal?'
She was raised by an adoptive mother who wanted a boy....

Take it easy on yourself. You needed to build defenses to protect you from more damage. :hug:

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Hi there,

Thanks for your responses :) Yeah, I meant gender in that way, too. Like a 'social construct' (hurray for university slang, haha!).
I'm okay with being a woman, actually: I want to be more of a woman than my mother was. I actually didn't like her uncaring and rock-hard attitude, but at the same time I use that to defend myself, like Springer here says. About my dad, well, mixed feelings. I think he used to be way too tender, and that's scary. Maybe that's what's making me scared of being too emotional, in a way: he let his wife completely mess up his entire life and his child too. It took him like ten years to start talking to me again, so for him it was like this huge blow. He should've been a stronger man, in my opinion, and shout back once in a while.

The thing is finding a healthy balance between the two. I would hate to be either like mom or dad: one enraged and the other one just a victim. @Rightkindofme: haha, it's funny that you mention role-playing geeks. I am one myself, but I'm not on any online community, maybe I should try it out. I also love Tank Girl though, especially the cartoon (it's kind of different from the movie), where she's this taugh kid who doesn't mind a bit of violence ;)

There is some women around that make me proud of being one, if you know what I mean. Tank Girl is fictional, but I have met strong women in real life once or twice. Women who have a say in life and "go for it". I feel like the mayority of women in my society (dutch), but probably the whole of Europe are not like that, they tend to care about their looks and about fashion all the time (it doesn't help that I study at a university full of girls like this...) and all they do is just criticize other women in order to crank theirselves up. That's the kind of woman that is "normal" around here. And somehow I feel like society "expects me" to "be like that". Funny because most of the time I'm pretty proud of who I am.

I've been reasonably blessed in the looks department but I cannot use what I've got to the extent that people expect me to able.

This is so recognizable. The same goes for me. Actually, I've been told "you could be a model if you wanted to and dressed a bit better", bla bla. The last thing I would want to do is be a model (they seem so self-involved!) and I actually tend to sort of hate things like skirts/make-up/high heels/pretty hair because it just reminds be of this standard image of femininy that clothing chains and other industries like to praise up into the skies. There is a part of me that would want to dress "better" (my way, of course) and be "everything" that I actually could be, but it scares me. Maybe I would rather hide in a safe niche and not be seen.

Maybe the concept of being "a woman" also implies giving and caring, and I feel I'm too limited that way: I want some dude to care for me and 'protect' me in a way, the other way around seems like an impossibility (making me feel guilty). Thanks for your suggestions! I'll write them down on my wishlist haha (so much stuff I have to/want to read!)

 

[rightkindofme]

Oh man, are you aware that Lori Petti, the chick in Tank Girl, was raped at 14 by her mothers pimp? She actually wrote and directed a movie about it called The Poker House. It is intense.

I really like reading trans stuff even though I was born a girl and I am happy as a girl because it allows me to think of gender as a construct. If gender is just a construct I can be and act any way I like, right? :)

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Geez, I had no idea! Good thing you told me. Now I'm wondering whether she inspired the cartoons, too. Since those are made by Jamie Hewlett. Maybe I'll do a background check ;)

 

[rightkindofme]

My understanding is she wasn't involved with the original comic. I'm not as fully educated as one might be on the topic though. :)

 

[Springer80]

There is some women around that make me proud of being one, if you know what I mean......Women who have a say in life and "go for it". I feel like the mayority of women in my society (dutch), but probably the whole of Europe are not like that, they tend to care about their looks and about fashion all they do is just criticize other women in order to crank theirselves up. That's the kind of woman that is "normal" around here. And somehow I feel like society "expects me" to "be like that".

This is so recognizable. The same goes for me. Actually, I've been told "you could be a model if you wanted to and dressed a bit better", bla bla. The last thing I would want to do is be a model (they seem so self-involved!) and I actually tend to sort of hate things like ...make-up...because it just reminds be of this standard image of femininy...There is a part of me that would want to dress "better" (my way, of course) and be "everything" that I actually could be, but it scares me. Maybe I would rather hide in a safe niche and not be seen.

Maybe the concept of being "a woman" also implies giving and caring, and I feel I'm too limited that way: I want some dude to care for me and 'protect' me in a way, the other way around seems like an impossibility (making me feel guilty). Thanks for your suggestions! I'll write them down on my wishlist haha (so much stuff I have to/want to read!)

I know what you mean about women you'd like to be proud of and emulate...I long for one of those still, a mentor someone to take me under their wing. It's a luxury that is rare for females.

Regarding you identy-kit college mates and the like....I feel sorry for them. For most they will realise they've been sold an expensive and time consuming lie. I like design, which does cross over into fashion but not exclusively so. The thing is when I was younger I was bought things to shut me up and when I was at college and uni


Ummm, I'm gonna have to stop...go visitors!!

 

[Springer80]

Back again!

Like I was saying, I was bought things in place of security and to buy me off, status/position became love. I have o say I got into it in some odd way and when I went to uni a pattern had been set and I went about carrying on an image, rying to emulate the 'happy successful' girls I thought I wanted to be. A total waste of time and a hurtful lesson, cos I was never actually like that. I think its sad its becoming more normal, it means we are more removed from our feelings and less likely to share our vulnerablity with each other.

I feel like Id like to be more giving, I dont mean literally like sex, money, cooking etc but more open.

It's nice to hear someone say they've had he same experience regarding looks and perception of what you should be like. I've been treated like I'm 'simple' in the head or defective for not being able to flaunt what others perceive I have. I's like an extra chastisement, on top of being raped/abused and having ptsd. I found it unnerving because I felt like my behavior in this conaxt would make me sand out further as someone with issues, so then there was the added pressure of trying to build up a facade of cool indifference. Also I found it very difficult as men would cshow interest and I didn't want one who vaulued me for anything as shallow and objectifying as being lusty.

The model was hard for me, I always waned to be self possessed but my ptsd meant I can barely be in front of a camera normally never mind working in front of one. It made me feel like another opportunity was being missed and everyone could my discomfort. At the same time though I would not wan o contribute to an industry that makes others feel inadequate for a living.

 

[heidi]

I think there is no need to want to fit into a stereotype. Some of those stereotypes of BS anyway and a lot of women resent those stereotypes anyway.

 

[Springer80]

a lot of women resent those stereotypes anyway.

Yeah precisely but when your very young and you have no guidance and you don't see the subtext of those stereotypes and half the people you know goad you for not trying to be one, your scared of attention, suddenly and violently you become aware of the darker side of it and yet you feel you have personally failed somehow for not taking advantage something that others tell you you should whilst all along privately feeling that they those stereotypes are harmful to you and you wouldn't want to be part of that,...well, it's very confusing.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Regarding you identy-kit college mates and the like.

It's funny you call them identity-kit, in my head I always think about them as 'the cheerleaders', even though that may not be completely fair to them because that makes them into an indistinguishable mass where they are all the same... I know that they are not the same, and they will each have individual personalities and feelings when you get to know them. But on the one hand, university tends to be enormous. Making friends isn't easy when groups change continuously. I never get involved with them either, don't care much for their hobbies (students' guilds, lots of drinking...)

So me never getting close to them isn't helping me be conscious of the fact that they are human beings, too. It's weird. I actually had a bit of insight in their lifes during teraphy, there were girls like that in the group too and I could see they were much more than just the surface-but then you go to university and they seem all the same and one tends to forget. I can really recognize this status thing and the "succesful happy woman" (don't forget independent and emancipated...) vibe that is like really important in western countries.

I've been treated like I'm 'simple' in the head or defective for not being able to flaunt what others perceive I have.

Yeah, in the past people never understood that about me, either. Especially during my time in Spain, there it was even worse. But there I was your standard 'teenage rebel', I cut my hair really short (where I lived, that was a no-go for women) and dressed like Eminem... just to be the reverse of them. I hate to hear you've been abused that way, I feel rather lucky I have not been, but I know more or less how it is to be stigmatized and excluded from circles on top of all the stuff you went through. There have been times where I felt bad about that, but now I just think, I probably wouldn't even want to be in their circles...

Some of those stereotypes of BS anyway and a lot of women resent those stereotypes anyway.

That's good to hear, actually I don't know that many women that share this resentment with me, but maybe they do and they are just not talking about it :)