Good sites to "unbrainwash" or "deprogram"one self?

[ShodokanJenn]

I was raised in a satanic cult from ages 3 - 12. It was horrific. I was also severely abused at home. I used to be where you are now. My therapist has literally been a life saver. The self harm got way out of control. The first thing my T did was to enroll me in DBT. I did the DBT and saw him every week for a year. It really helped stabilize me and also knocked down some of the 'programming.' We didn't really discuss what happened to me at all that first year. We then moved on to feelings and self awareness. I had a LOT of trouble identifying my feelings and cognitions. The therapist had me see a hypnotherapist a few times. Under hypnosis I was able to answer specific questions about cognitions without getting so massively triggered. T and I spent the next year or so refuting many of the cognitions.

One thing he said that made a big impact in how I thought and how I spoke (I belong to another support forum for survivors of sexual assault, which I now am on the moderating team for)... He said it was fine to give voice to the distorted beliefs, so long as I gave equal or greater voice to it's counter. For example, if I said, "I feel worthless" I also said, "But to some people I mean the world, so I DO have value." Only after those initial treatments were we able to start discussing the things that happened when I was a kid. It was too overwhelming to talk about.

So my therapist had me start writing stuff at home and bringing it in for him to read. At my appointments, he slowly and gently started exposure therapy. We started off with me simply naming the dates of some recurring rituals and how thinking of those dates made me feel.

Next he started asking me questions about what I wrote. Pretty soon I was talking out loud about what happened. We started uncovering so much distorted thinking. At that point, my therapist said I was ready if I wanted to start reading books and doing some LIGHT research. We are still plugging away, giving voice to what happened and challenging the distorted thoughts and replacing them with the truth. Without all the careful foundation building at the start, I know I would be just as bad if not worse (i.e. dead) now as I was then. But because of what I wrote above, I have come so far.

My point is, I DO understand where you are coming from. I HAVE had success with therapy. I still have distorted thinking but as soon as it is pointed out, I MAKE myself speak what is true, out loud, instead of dwelling on the negative side.

Every day is a struggle. But it IS getting easier.

As far as sites to help you 'deprogram' yourself, I would advise against it. The distorted thinking is so much of who you are. You need someone else's perspective, or you'll just end up with even more distortion. Challenging the distortions can be massively triggering, as you have seen in your time here. It's not really something to approach on your own.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I will say if you belonged to a small unaffiliated cult, finding good resources for deprogramming might be more difficult than for some other cult survivors.

I would completely agree

You might find it helpful to read broadly about thought reform movements (cult systems), especially the work of Margaret Singer. I think something that is enlightening on the Rick Ross Institute's forums is that all of the thought reform movements, whether they are "religious," "meditative," "human potential," etc. are all designed basically the same.

So maybe learn about how cults work first; or while using @anthony 's awesome negitive core beliefs article. I watch A LOT of documentries on cults; the one that most resembles theirs is The Children Of God renamed The Family; the only main difference is they were to recruit with sex "flirting fishing" and i was the "worlds worst child to be used to sexually satisy the members". My therapist asked me once if they had done anything to any other child and i dont know, not in front of me anyway.

I watched how Jim Jones got his members to commit mass suicide (my step dad's hero) and even how Charles Manson got people to kill for him.

Ive been trying for yrs to understand and i know it seems i fight help here (i really do listen) but theres like 2 parts of me (or feels that way) the "programed" part and thats the biggest, strongest, or at least the most obvious part and the part that fights help (here or in my head and in therapy) and then theres this part of me (that feels like im clawing away in my own head) that desperately wants to get better, wants to understand (and believe) what people are saying, and the part that tries to "do the work".

I frustrate most people (most especially clergy or "christian people") cuz i fight it all but thats the "programmed" side. It's the side that said to my therapist "it doesnt make rational sense but i believe it anyway". But I still listen, think about it, try to understand it by pondering, and poundering, and poundering on it, and then try like hell to do it.

Sometimes i have to leave it and go back to it many times for it to click. Sometimes because its frustrating me cuz i cant seem to "get it" and dont know why, and sometimes cuz it scares me and/or cause auto urges for rituals/punishments.

This site was one of those things; my therapist sent me here to a specific thread that we were talking about and that lead to reading around (i always have 'homework' to do). Before joining id come to the site, look around for a short while and then leave (like the site's gonna bite me) for days, and kept doing that til i could stay (lurking) on the site w/o feeling the need to leave and then just quickly joined before i changed my mind. The terror of people/the site was quite apparent at first. Everything seems to be a learning experience for me.

I would write down these thoughts ie: I am good, God loves me, I don't deserve to be hurt , I am lovable etc, and then telling myself these new thoughts until they sink in.

I completely forgot about the little things my therapist writes on the back of his business card. A few i have in my fridge are "What ever other people think of me is none of my business" probably one of the most important one; "Traumatic situations and events distort time"; and "THAT'S BULLSHIT!" speaking about what they said about me thus what i say about myself. I have one in my room that i think fell behind my dresser that discribes my pasf in a few words but i cant find it so i dont want to quote it but it has "sexually and physically tortured" in it; just didnt want to put it on my fridge for the world to see.

So i do that, w/ what he writes that i can put on the fridge. I think its harder to see my past as bad because no one else in my real world does... ?? I dont know

So my therapist had me start writing stuff at home and bringing it in for him to read. At my appointments, he slowly and gently started exposure therapy. We started off with me simply naming the dates of some recurring rituals and how thinking of those dates made me feel.

My therapist and i did this. Sorta. He had me up everything in order to him over 5 sessions. I have a flat tone when i talk to him about it; in completely numb to it so its like/and feels like im talking about someone else. He wanted me to tell him how i feel then (or if i cant remember he said tell me how you think you felt) and now; like when i told him about the kitten i tried to make as a pet and my step dad broke his neck; he asked how i felt and i said "i shouldnt of tried to make him a pet" he asked "is that how you felt thennor now" and i said both.

Normally when we get into stuff that brings up feelings, i disassociate. I think thats why he's liking this site, im able to write (and feel) feelings and process things in another form which feels safer for me; the virtual world.

He said things are "loosening up" and so i think he's waiting until things are a bit less tightly packed cuz when we try to do things like EMDR, or talk about thoughts, feelings etc, we just spin our wheels and it goes no where.

The fact that i even created this thread is progress as just a few months ago i would stand my ground and say "i think XYZ and its true and thats just how it is". Have no clue how he's put up with me for almost 7 yrs.

What skills are taught in DBT?

DBT includes four sets of behavioral skills.

Mindfulness: the practice of being fully aware and present in this one moment

Distress Tolerance: how to tolerate pain in difficult situations, not change it

Interpersonal Effectiveness: how to ask for what you want and say no while maintaining self-respect and relationships with others

Emotion Regulation: how to change emotions that you want to change

We do all of this but usually its in the form of "homework", the sessions just arent long enough for it and it took a yr to trust him; maybe that is why he hasnt sent me to another therapy?

I can maybe search for DBT work shops.

As far as sites to help you 'deprogram' yourself, I would advise against it. The distorted thinking is so much of who you are. You need someone else's perspective, or you'll just end up with even more distortion. Challenging the distortions can be massively triggering, as you have seen in your time here. It's not really something to approach on your own.

Ok, i get that. The countering replies here are helping, a lot; they trigger and make me tailspin but thats ok as long as i keep myself off the train tracks because once the tailspin is over, im able to see what it had just taught me and allows me to then apply it in every aspect of my life.

Like when i tailspinned all over this site (though not good) and at the time all i could think is "they hate me now...i should leave before i get banned"; it took my therapist to show me that i was actually learning how to correctly interact with people (aka doesnt include sex) and thus have been able to do so afterwards, helping amd talking to people without upsetting people.

I think, something i shouldnt have done, reading my step mom's diary and the words "she's emotionally abusing us" and mostly "she's been in therapy 6 yrs and she's worse" made me frustrated at myself that in 6, almost 7 yrs im not more further along and thats how people see me.

I started asking "why cant i get this" and "why cant i change this". I guess i just need to keep plugging along, be more patient with myself, and ignore those that dont understand and refuses to read the huge PTSD sourcebook i bought per my therapist request.

It also says DBT is good for those w/ BPD, Im diagnosed Borderline.

Im also completely self taught in what i do for a living, i am Ms research everything; i want to know the ins and outs of everything and that doesnt exclude my own mind. So i wanted to push myself faster.

That doesnt mean i wont do that core belief self help article, i like it and i think it will help; but i do know better than to do it alone to start...as i cant punish myself in my therapist's office.

 

[Lionheart]

Nah, im listening, not understaning but that article helped.

Evidence, i don't have evidence,.....

I used to write stuff like this, but it didn't really work but it was in my early 20s, well before any of this was unsupressed.

I think ive gotta start at the foundation up? Changing core beliefs first? Cuz thats where they are start, or go if i dig...and i cant seem to "debunk" them.

Yes this is great!!! Core beliefs are the hardest to work with and at first, trying to change these beliefs felt like I was lieing (sp) to myself, as if I was getting brainwashed again, but this time it was positive, so I figured maybe my brain could use a good washing.;)

I am sorry if you don't find these writing methods effective, I really would like to help you because I was sexually molested and psychologically tortured by a self-professed Satanist, when I was 13 years old, (the same year that 5 other men brutally molested me).

I was being groomed as a "child prostitute"....but there really is no such thing...a child is not psychologically prepared for regular sex much less prostitution..anyway I am getting off track. Just wanted you to know that I went through some very similar things and my My heart goes out to you. My core belief turned out to be that I was unlovable....it was a fu*king Lie!!! ....and the people that did these things, to you and to me, are little puffed up smidgens of blow-fish :poop:!!!!!

I hope you are able to turn things around, you sound like you are determined to do this and I sincerely wish you all the best. You didn't deserve to be treated so horribly!!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I hope you are able to turn things around, you sound like you are determined to do this and I sincerely wish you all the best. You didn't deserve to be treated so horribly!!

I am trying very VERY hard. Just got frustrated w/ myself for not being better in almost 7 yrs of therapy.

I dont write notes myself but i had forgotten that my therapist does and i have some on the fridge that i dont care the world seeing, the rest are in my purse or hidden in my room.

They help, just like you know, feels like a lie.

The one he wrote that i most like is "what ever other people think of me is none of my business". I guess its about believing it cuz what people think of me still matters a lot to me and how they feel about me determines how i feel about myself...so still working on it.

Thank you for saying that! I dont believe i didnt deserve it but its rude bot to thank people for saying kind things. May e if i hear that enough, i'll eventually believe it?

 

[scout86]

all i can think of is "god told them i am" and i have tried, for yrs to "debunk"

So, you do you know that "god told them"? Did you hear the conversation, first hand? It seems more likely that THEY told you that "god told them". In that case, is it not at least possible that they're lying?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

So, you do you know that "god told them"? Did you hear the conversation, first hand? It seems more likel...

Anything is possible but in my brain its just true and i cant seem to change that. Ita like fact in my brain.

Also you told me to tell you when i started a diary so if you havent already read my first post, which is the entireity of my story, its found here this Link Removed

 

[scout86]

I'll give your diary a try. I honestly usually avoid reading about how people came to be here. Not because I don't care, but for reasons that have more to do with me than anything else.

in my brain its just true and i cant seem to change that

I think this is the kind of thing @anthony is talking about breaking down and analyzing.

How do you know ANYTHING is true? I'm not even suggesting that you try to change a belief right now. Just asking "What's the procedure for identifying a fact?" If you don't have one you might want to come up with one.

Some things people tell us are true. Some aren't. Some contain partial facts. Some are distorted "facts" presented to serve the purposes of the presenter. Somehow, to navigate the world, we need to come up with ways to tell these apart that work at least most of the time.

They could just as well have told you that "the moon is made of blue cheeses". You also might have accepted that as a fact. Doesn't mean it is.

 

[anthony]

Ok, so, your only evidence to support your self statement of, "I'm bad" is that "god told them i am."

One problem here... god told who you're bad? And how does god telling someone else that you're bad, reflect your belief system that you're bad?

 

[anthony]

So maybe learn about how cults work first

Understanding why things happen, help you to understand your situation and thus outcome.

or while using @anthony 's awesome negitive core beliefs article

You really should stop citing me and anything I do as awesome or otherwise, to be honest, it sounds stalkerish to me. I am not your saviour, this community is not your saviour, your therapist will not be your saviour -- only you can save yourself by doing the hard work required to heal. Nobody else can do that. Educate yourself, learn everything you can about cults, about cognitive distortions, and you should come through this.

Someone mentioned DBT... which is an excellent method to slowly break down severe symptoms to shift you beyond your present tense feeling stuck with no way out.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

You really should stop citing me and anything I do as awesome or otherwise, to be honest, it sounds stalkerish to me. I am not your saviour, this community is not your saviour, your therapist will not be your saviour -- only you can save yourself by doing the hard work required to heal.

Im sorry and im trying

 

[shimmerz]

Rick Ross Institute

This seems to be a really good site. Thanks Simon. culteduction.com is Rick A. Ross' site. He also has a book called Cults Inside Out.

 

[joeylittle]

@lostforgottensoul - I don't know if this will help.

When I told my therapist about my trauma (many years after it happened), he was the first person to really know. And at first, I didn't even tell him the whole of it. When we got into processing it, there were things about my life before the trauma that I had not really put together as being odd, or eventful - and I had never looked a the big picture of how my mind works, and what leads to me thinking the things that I do.

Understanding that there was a connection between something that happened when I was six, and then 8, and then 10, and another thing that was happening all along, and this and that and the other - when I saw the big picture, and included my trauma in it, and my behavior afterwards - it was like, "major light bulb! This is why my brain works the way it does!".

And it took me awhile to realize that knowing the 'why' wasn't actually going to lead anywhere. I wanted it to lead somewhere, because it was a really big 'why'. But in the end - it didn't matter. What mattered was processing the trauma and re-framing the thoughts.

There are some hard-core beliefs that I have, and I know why I have them, I know where they came from and I've held them for decades. I get frustrated because I work hard at the cognitive piece. I have put a ton of energy into DBT, and still, every day, I have to work at it. I don't know when the work is ever going to end. It pisses me off.

You are really well-spoken about how your trauma has shaped you. You're really clear about it. I bet that's been the result of lots and lots of work in therapy. And your therapist referring to priming the pump, opening things up - I think that's probably in regards to getting you ready for more challenging work.

All you're getting back from people, I think, is that they see you are able to articulate the horrors that happened to you, and on some level, even if it's just what your therapist has told you, you know they were bad. You know you were made to do these things. It's really normal that you don't believe this at all. No-one believes it, at least part of the time (sometimes all of the time).

Having your thinking challenged is also how other people challenge their own thoughts. And probably, when you challenge or support other people in their own journey(s), you are part talking to them, and part talking to yourself. It's why peer support works.

Anyway - I got off on a tangent. My main point was just to say, I understand what it's like to see all the pieces line up, and I understand why it feels important to defend your own negative thinking. I have done that, too. But the single best resource for deprogramming is going to come from you - your ability to

1. see what the lies are (which you already do a decent job of)
2. rewrite your program (which happens bit by tiny bit, when you challenge your negative beliefs. You don't have to beat them - just challenge them)

Hope this helps, a little.