Good sites to "unbrainwash" or "deprogram"one self?

[lostforgottensoul]

rewrite your program (which happens bit by tiny bit, when you challenge your negative beliefs. You don't have to beat them - just challenge them)

I feel completely defeated...in an extremely bad place right now. If i lived alone (mostly why i dont) id stop by walgreens and get a bunch of duster & hope it kills me & i havent huffed in 2 yrs. Just the mental place that i am & im sure whatever i do tonight, it wont be good. Just done fighting so hard & getting no where. Just tired. Mentally, emotionally, & finding less and less reasons to stay away from that really dark place....

 

[Chava]

I'm stuck at the god part here. I'm maybe going out on a limb, and maybe totally useless side shoot, but what do you believe about god? Only what you've been told? Any personal experience with connection to some sort of higher power (intelligence/spirit/whatever)? I ask because I dropped my family's conception of god because it was completely meaningless to me. That's not saying I know who "God" is and they don't...but they don't have some extra special rights to understanding god. Part of growing up was just separating out that the adults in my life weren't really final authorities (whew!).

Regular screwed up humans use the "god" language for all kinds of f*cked up purposes. Some are genuine and in line with spiritual principles. But cults and extremists don't have a clue about god, so you can just forget that as "god" authority. You have to know that they were not talking about god. None of that was about god, sorry, and yet thank goodness. Then, if you can separate it from "god", you tease out what is left after that. Rejection? Abandonment by the humans in your life?

Or maybe it's easier to allow it to be about "god" in order to protect some shred of connection to family (even if only to not feel total abandonment)? Is it easier to think "god" made them do it and "god" decided you were "bad" than to consider that your parents/guardians were simply f*cked up and abusive? (not sure if this makes sense but in terms of child abuse, this isn't far-fetched)

That being said, I'd wonder if the "I'm bad" doesn't connect more directly to feeling that from the people who were supposed to care for and protect you. "God" was their cover up. But on a basic human level, you didn't get the message of worthiness from them. The god-human connection stuff seems really obvious to me...like I will never be able to conceive of a God-the-Father figure (bizarre to me). I could even say my dad was a caring person, but he was an unreliable addict and did nothing to protect me. Common images and views of "god" in my culture make very little sense to me. But I have a connection in my own way.

Have you ever tried meditation or mindfulness practices? You can have your thoughts but begin to also notice them without attaching so much weight. It's not so easy with trauma, but for me it's been one way to create some space between me and my thoughts and also develop my own inner witness, vs the me who simply reacts.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I hope it's okay to ask this question. I know the OP is really struggling, and I don't want to derail the conversation at all.

Taking this...

Take one thing, just one.
Start with, "I'm bad"
What evidence do you have to support this statement?

...and then this...

and i cant seem to "debunk" them.

It's the side that said to my therapist "it doesnt make rational sense but i believe it anyway".

in my brain its just true and i cant seem to change that.

What do you do if you have no way of logically supporting the negative belief, but you still can't change it? It doesn't make sense at all, but it's still there. It just is.

Does that mean you haven't identified the true core belief? Or is it a matter of logically examining the belief over and over for a long period of time until you gradually start to believe differently? Or is there another piece I'm missing?

I struggle with this stuff, too...lots of spiritual abuse (not satanic, but pervasive over most of my childhood)...and this is a really tough nut to crack.

@lostforgottensoul ...sending warm thoughts your way.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Know before i answer that im in a VERY not so good place at the moment, my entire body has been trembling all day, threw up twice, and could think nothing better at the moment than not being here anymore (no thats not a suicide threat, before someone says i broke the rules); but thats where my mind is.

And to clarify anthony (not cited), i dont see anyone as a "saviour", was just honored you took time to help me is all. Sorry that come across as "stalkerish". I dont stalk people, just thought when you speak of a member you were supposed to put @ there. Plus i was asking questions, attempting to understand.

@Chava , you're asking loaded questions and being honest and transparent here really has gotten me where i am at the moment so i will be honest but im just telling you what i know/believe/feel.

Im gonna answer them out of order.

Or maybe it's easier to allow it to be about "god" in order to protect some shred of connection to family (even if only to not feel total abandonment)? Is it easier to think "god" made them do it and "god" decided you were "bad" than to consider that your parents/guardians were simply f*cked up and abusive? (not sure if this makes sense but in terms of child abuse, this isn't far-fetched)

I dont know, probably. I dont know why i think the way i think, do what i do, or feel the way i feel but I DO KNOW that abandonment happening and the fear of is and always has been one constant in my life.

People and family always leave, its just the way it is. My family dont just leave, they also wont leave me alone and pound me w/ "she's crazy","she's a liar" (not sure whom asks & believes a child abuser) "she's horrible" coming to me indirectlg from my step mom & dad though per my therapist ive asked them to stop telling me what they gossips w/ each other & say about me as they're blocked on facebook now..and now im watching my dad starting to disconnect and leave, again (whom is the last family member left.

Just easier to spent the rest of whatever amount of life i have, however long or short, alone...at least i cant do, say, think, or feel anything wrong alone. At least i dont get attached to someone just to be crushed when they get tired of me, find out whom i really am, my issues, whatever & leave.

Plus in my understanding, fear of abandonment is a huge thing which Borderlines.

what do you believe about god? Only what you've been told? Any personal experience with connection to some sort of higher power (intelligence/spirit/whatever)?

Connection? Never. Rage, yes!

I believe there is A god, i believe every religon on the planet worships the same god in different ways.

BUT, i also believe that "god" hates my guts or doesnt give a flying f*ck about me.

I have spent WAY too many years praying, reading (not the actual book of the bible as i cant touch one) but bible gateway online. And even Satanists know the christian bible, probably better than most christians. Trying to understand and unmix up my head about it all. "Exposure therapy" by forcing myself to go to a small church that met in a school; which was the worst idea on the planet.

I would love to beat the f*ck out of "god" with a baseball bat. (I feel like throwing up again)...

I do fully believe "god" told them to, i do believe "god" spoke to them...and no i didnt hear them and have not a clue why i cant see it like eveyone else; its not that i dont try.

I once emailed over 20 local pastors, only 1 answered...ended up eventually as everyone does; frustrated and left.

Over the yrs ive talked to over 100 christian pastors trying to understand. In the myspace days, i had a 2nd myself for my mental expression, it had a bunch of pictures and stuff on it, he told me to take it down or he was gonna stop talking to me as he felt that was me "not wanting to get better" when all i wanted to do was give a voice to how i felt inside. I refused, he left.

Two of my therapist's 8 degrees are in therology, we dont go there often but we have; oddly enough the ONLY time i ever cried (was 2 tears for just a min and a half before i pushed it back down) was when he read a bible verse about how "god" sees humans. Not sure what that means...

Ive tried harder trying to figure out this god stuff than i have on working on my mental stuff...

Have you ever tried meditation or mindfulness practices? You can have your thoughts but begin to also notice them without attaching so much weight. It's not so easy with trauma, but for me it's been one way to create some space between me and my thoughts and also develop my own inner witness, vs the me

Tried and failed. Mediation requires a quiet mind, not one worse than nascar.

Also when slone with my head/thoughts i end up doing not so good stuff.

Not saying i wouldnt be open to it again, have no clue how to at least quiet it or push away what races through my hwad enough to pick my art back up.

I just have this urge to take a baseball bat and distory my house...not sure why.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I don't want to derail the conversation at all.

You can derail it, i dont care. Thats not derailing it anyway.

Its something i cant grasp either and im done trying, at least today i am. Tomorrow, i think, wont be a very productive therapy session. I had all this stuff i was going to show him and ask but today im just throwing in the towel....

Thanks for the warm wishes!

 

[joeylittle]

What do you do if you have no way of logically supporting the negative belief, but you still can't change it? It doesn't make sense at all, but it's still there. It just is.

I struggle with exactly this. And I think of it not as changing the old neural pathway, but of building a new one that eventually will become stronger than the old one, and the old one will shrivel up from not being used. It will always be there, but like the old bridge that's fallen down, sitting right next to the new bridge. If that makes sense.

Neurologically speaking, we don't really 'change' existing pathways - we make new ones, with new stimuli, and those become the more habitual thoughts.

Do you remember the whole thing about 'the dress'? - where there was a picture of a dress that some people saw as white and gold, and others saw as blue and black? It was because of the way our eyes process color. To me, it's an interesting example (for myself at least) of how much energy it takes for me to build a new thought-pattern. Because I saw the dress 'wrong' - and through great, great effort I could almost make myself turn it into the correct color - but I never got past thinking it was white and gold, when it really wasn't. Even though the proven fact was that it was blue and black.

And that's just a dress, not my self-hatred (which is far more entrenched).

But I also know that I physically flinch less when someone says something nice about me. It used to be able to make me throw up. Then, just a violent, out-of-control flinch. Now, it's just my mind flinching, but not my body (most of the time). And it's not because changed the flinch response. It's because I have gradually, slowly, been learning to accept that other people can have their opinions. Not that I think they are right - just that their opinions are theirs to have, not mine to judge. So, there's a tiny new pathway that is accepting that in some small way I might not be horrible. Even though I know I am, but I have no logical proof for it.

Your mind is shaped by how you use it - that's a true thing. But it helps me to think of it in terms of building new, not deconstructing old (if that makes sense).

 

[anthony]

What do you do if you have no way of logically supporting the negative belief

It's impossible not to, actually, if it is a distortion.

One should not confuse a cognitive distortion with factual accuracy though, as that is not a distortion and does not require evidence. That requires a different approach through calculated assertion of the situation.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It doesn't make sense at all, but it's still there. It just is.

I second this...

and this is a really tough nut to crack.

And this....

Ive never been this frustrated with myself; ever...

And this:

One should not confuse a cognitive distortion with factual accuracy though, as that is not a distortion and does not require evidence. That requires a different approach through calculated assertion of the situation.

..is greek to me.

But therapy is tomorrow. After today i fear the session will be wasted on what all transpired and i'll be forced to talk outloud about something i just knew i shouldnt have made public but did anyway...

But will attempt to ask him still about it all; though i "threw in the towel"; im obviously not a quitter...

He has a way to explain things where they make sense to me.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Ok, so, your only evidence to support your self statement of, "I'm bad" is that "god told them i am."

One problem here... god told who you're bad? And how does god telling someone else that you're bad, reflect your belief system that you're bad?

I missed this.

God told my mom & step dad that im bad.

Well, god is god...how does the christian god tell a christian something reflect their belief system? I dont know.

I think the issue w/ that is i still fully believe that god talked to them. Now if i could get myself to believe that they were f*cked in the head bad pediphiles; well.maybe but i think i fight that for 2 reasons, its my mom and though she did what she did id still take a bullet for her and i still discribe my step dad as my first love and i cant seem to change that; which disgusts me and makes me feel safe and loved...though feelings arent supposed fo be in this.

Its the "i know this isnt rational but i believe it anyway" thing...

Can i tear my head off now???

 

[lostforgottensoul]

They could just as well have told you that "the moon is made of blue cheeses". You also might have accepted that as a fact. Doesn't mean it is.

Saame thing ive been trying to say, i believe the sky is green and the grass is blue. Bad is good and good is bad...

How do you know ANYTHING is true? I'm not even suggesting that you try to change a belief right now. Just asking "What's the procedure for identifying a fact?" If you don't have one you might want to come up with one.

That makes more sense to me...hmmm...gonna ponder that...

I'll give your diary a try.

You dont have to read the first post, its just the only way i could figure out how to start the first post.

I tried doing this in my diary and had some questions cuz i didnt know if i was doing it right...using one of the things i hate myself over the most, not saying no to kill small animals...but it went into two different directions and i dont know if im doing that right...

 

[lostforgottensoul]

see what the lies are (which you already do a decent job of)

Though i dont see them as lies...

Not sure if i have to?

rewrite your program (which happens bit by tiny bit, when you challenge your negative beliefs. You don't have to beat them - just challenge them)

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

This seems to be a really good site. Thanks Simon. culteduction.com is Rick A. Ross' site. He also has a book called Cults Inside Out.

I'll check it out. Tonight isnt a good time tk do that...

Probably w/ my therapist tomorrow. He-s the one that told me about the cult Children Of God renamed The Family