Good sites to "unbrainwash" or "deprogram"one self?

[lostforgottensoul]

Alright. Super hard to dialogue here anywhere. Carry on...

Im super f*cking tired of talking about it with people.

And i never said you judged me...i said i feel judged...by myself or not.

It is something that is sensitive since one member said that because i couldnt stop that RIGHT NOW then i wasnt trying to get better and i think last night shows i am.

I think respectivally bowing out of the back and forth convo on my diary was a big enough hint to stop bring it up to me right now.

I just got done moving blame off myself and onto those that hurt me last night and fighting like f*cking hell to keep it there.

Therefore there will be a time to talk about this, tonight isnt that time!

 

[scout86]

I might try ice again on "not so bad" triggers but if im spirling i know i will keep seek pain until it numbs whats inside or it goes directly to suicide.

Have you talked about this with your therapist? What does he say about it?

Mine has said that "just stopping" something, like an addiction, for example, is nearly impossible. He's mentioned finding substitutions that are less harmful. He's also said that finding ways to "not start" is usually easier than "stopping". (Like finding ways to not buy alcohol is easier than stopping after one drink). I don't know if that can be applied to any of your stuff or not.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Have you talked about this with your therapist? What does he say about it?

I have. He knows its a tightly held on control thing and has never asked me to just stop anything..but also doesnt know what transpired last night so he may end up changing it, but he does throw out things i can do instead (bringing my dog to the park nearby, drawing (which ive tried and cant seem to pick back up my yet which he really wants me to do) so he said try just throwing paint.on paper but that doesnt do anything, the park thing i havent done somewhat due to pain but to be honest it probably haa more to do w/ my fear of people (he thought a park, being outaide would be easier.

He's thrown out like a millon things...some ive tried, some arent possible, and some just down right terrifies me to try.

Its super hard to devert my mind from the.ritual then the punishment. Not sure why its so hard to or why the urge to is that strong.

Ive been able to get into a movie to dervert it but at times that seems to just delay it.

Maybe digging at why its such a strong urge? Maybe debunking that cult belief first?

Right now im just trying to keep blame off me as my brain seems to want to move it back, BAD.

Maybe its the uncomfortableness of it? Or feels wrong or like a lie? Not sure yet but had no clue if was gonna be this hard to not come back on me...

 

[ghotiff]

Change isn't something that is instantaneous. Change takes time and is often uncomfortable. You've taken a fantastic step forward.

 

[scout86]

Not sure why its so hard to or why the urge to is that strong.

There might not be any special reason why it's that hard.

I guess there's actually a part of our brain that "likes" to create habits. Once they are there, they are hard to change. Probably, from a survival stand point, that was good. You learn how to react to a saber toothed tiger so you can react quicker, you know? Grabbing your spear gets to be an automatic reaction and it works. Grabbing an bottle of alcohol or some other chemical can get to be a similar automatic reaction, because it seems to work. So can flying into a rage. So can a lot of things. Leaving the whole idea of physical addictions out of it, although that's real and actually exists too.

It seems like, in your case, you had some hard stuff to deal with without many options. You learned what you learned. It worked, in its own way. There just are probably other things out there that work better. Not to mention you don't actually HAVE to be punished, you only THINK you have to be punished.

My T says (often!) that we all have our own road maps of reality. They are not the same. They are also NOT reality, they are just maps. They are the best approximation we have at the moment. He says he thinks we owe it to ourselves to have the most up to date and accurate road map we can. Which totally makes sense to me. Which leads to a process of questioning ideas, especially old ones, to learn where they came from and what they're based on. And from there trying to decide how accurate they are and how well they're working. Whether to keep them or up date them.

My T also says (often) that he wants me to "get better" as fast as I can, but not faster. Which means, with something like your rituals, you might want to change the way you do that, but you can only change as fast as you can. It's not good to try to do it faster than that. And the changes, to my way of thinking, are NOT because something is/was "wrong". They are because things can be improved. There are new things and ideas that can work better than the old ones. No condemnation. Just improvement. (I'm not saying this is easy or that I can do it perfectly myself, BTW. It's not and I don't. It's a work in progress.)

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It seems like, in your case, you had some hard stuff to deal with without many options. You learned what you learned. It worked, in its own way. There just are probably other things out there that work better. Not to mention you don't actually HAVE to be punished, you only THINK you have to be punished.

The one thing that they could NEVER take away from me is my moral code; what i know deep inside what is right & wrong (its why im as honest as i am) and my therapist told me that i would NEVER be able to be a psycopath or socopath (sp?) if i tried. I care very much about people AND animals and could never hurt anyone and its why though killing small animals were the most commonly done ritual in the cult, i have never killed nor physically hurt an animal since i moved out, even when they kept control from 18 to 19.

THAT is why i have this absolutly overly obsessive need to punish (most often was cut down there inside) so thats the most one i self do for being "bad". Especially after a ritual, most especially if that ritual is sexual; in addition sex that doesnt hurt like super bad feels rather weird.

I will also cut my arms for making someone upset, for not doing things right at work, when people leave (especially family). All still due to "im bad", or "im unlovable" or whatever. I NEVER leave myself room for human error or mistake, ever. I make a mistake then "i cant do anything right" or "everyone hates me".

It IS extremely automatic, the rituals in my adult world arent done due to "giving sacrifice to god" or anything to do with "god"; i do them for a couple of reasons (punishments follow for being "bad") but i do them to make the hurt inside numb itself, i think it re-enforces blame on me (so blame on me it was impossible to change much of anything) so i hope that if i can keep blame on them then it will be easier to change these beliefs; but the rituals make it so i can say "see, im a horrible, nasity (whatever) person" so then i must punish.

The sex w/ anyone, anywhere, anytime & coming on to everyone i think has to do with an excessive need to feel loved; also self done as thats the only time i felt loved or even safe (thinking of my step dad's "gentle sex"). The only way i know how to connect with people.

But even that has punishments whether they do or dont have sex with me. It puts "im a whore" if they do; "im unlovable" if they dont. Its a no win situation.

I think even the porn & dog thing is about feeling loved, not that my dog doing that does, i know he doesnt have conscience to know what he's doing (and my dog loves me in every way that dogs love humans; hes a very well trained and gentle very sweet dog...and i love my dog so i wont be getting rid of my dog; plus that would make it way worse & destablize me even more as i wont feel safe at home thus rituals will get worse). Just had to add that since that was the idea someone had.

But its the act of sexual contact of any kind i think. Plus i was forced to have sex with dogs growing up and was "rewarded" for accidently "liking it" (though my therapist makes me reword that; he said that i didnt 'like it') but anyway also was forced to watch & make porn & 'rewarded' for that...so though i hated the porn growing up, i think i became what i call addicted to it (though its not exactlly like an addiction) thats the way if feels so thats why i describe it that way.

All of this seems weird or odd to anyone that didnt grow up in a cult or was forced to do things that they now dont redo as an adult. Its the only 'roadmap' ive ever had.

I like the roadmap discription. Can make a new and better one, but:

He says he thinks we owe it to ourselves to have the most up to date and accurate road map we can.

so as long as i think that im everything horrible; i dont know if i can see that i owe anything to myself. I think thats gonna come as i debunk the cult beliefs. Leaves room for me to see myself in a better way and to be able to 'be nice to myself'.

The rituals arent as simple as some seem to want to think. "Just occupy your mind" or "just stop" were two things i was told along w/ giving my dog away which the main issue w/ that (which ive only felt the need to do once in over 4 yrs) is that leave me the option to go over to my 'freakish' neighbor whom likes that sort of thing, to bring over his friend's intact dog and then its worse.

They are all intangled with cult beliefs, automatic thoughts, and my obessive need to feel loved and to numb the hurt inside....they are quite complex.

And it keeps blame on me i think, something i didnt want to move over to them and my brain keeps trying to move it back over to me, i think, cuz it still seems that where its suppose to be..its uncomfortable to blame them. But im fighting like hell to keep it on them; i discribe it has a fight cuz thats how it feels, a fight with myself.

So until i change the cult beliefs and the automatic thoughs and until i can dig out the core or center of these cult beliefs and change them one at a time; the rituals & punishments wont change.



I wish it was as easy as just stop or i sould have. Even redicting my mind is hard, eapecially when i wake up from nightmares. Its the reason i was asking about an anti-nightmare type med that can lower my brain's reaction to it some so i might be able to get under it and change it.

Seems rather impossible when my brain has that severe reaction. Maybe not impossible, just MUCH MUCH harder.

My T also says (often) that he wants me to "get better" as fast as I can, but not faster. Which means, with something like your rituals, you might want to change the way you do that, but you can only change as fast as you can. It's not good to try to do it faster than that. And the changes, to my way of thinking, are NOT because something is/was "wrong". They are because things can be improved. There are new things and ideas that can work better than the old ones. No condemnation. Just improvement. (I'm not saying this is easy or that I can do it perfectly myself, BTW. It's not and I don't. It's a work in progress.)

Def doing it as fast as i can but i resist on trying to go faster than i should because when ive tried (and ive tried many many times) it has made me feel rather 'unstable' and i usually end up doing the ritual anyway and the ritual and then the punishment is almost always worse. Especially when im made to feel even worse over the ritual, the punishment then is 10 times worse.

One recently was REALLY bad, and when i told my therapist, he said "im sorry you felt THAT bad inside to do that". My jaw was on the floor, didnt know it was possible for anyone, even my therapist, to REALLY get it. He seems to.

NOT because something is/was "wrong". They are because things can be improved. There are new things and ideas that can work better than the old ones. No condemnation. Just improvement.

Maybe if i can change my dialog about them first? Maybe if i can see the rituals as 'not a bad thing' then maybe i can seperate the ritual & the punishment?

I know if i change the cult belief around the ritual, i wont have the need for that one ritual and thus the punishment.

But changing self dialog from ot being this horrible thing this me being horrible, if i can get myself to see if as improvements...maybe i can change the way i see me and maybe that will help debunk the cult belief (since they ALL circle around me being this "demon child that is all thats evil and bad in this world")?

Sorry this is so long, i felt the need to explain a bit more. I do wish some would stop throwing one of the rituals at me (yes i know people have an extreme reaction as most love animals & dogs) but its really not helping to first keep the blame on them which means i have to see myself in a better light (not just like them) and second, right now dialoging it and hearing that extreme reaction makes me want to do it, something im trying not to do.

And right now, im fighting to keep the blame where it belongs and when i hear the extreme reaction, it makes the auto thinking "im a horrible person" start and makes that fight a thousand times harder.

I dont know which cult belief to start to debunk first, something i was gonna talk to my therapist about. So for this week til i see him, my job right now is to keep the blame from shift back over to me. I dont think i can jump on any cult belief until its not so hard to keep the blame over there.

This wasnt just a reply to you scout, i just felt the need to explain a bit is all. Not sure why, i think the orginal dialog on Wednesdsy is still upsetting me. Not sure if any of it makes sense to anyone, not sure it makes sense to me. Just the best way i know how to explain.

Ive never tried harder to get better and improve than i am right now.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Change isn't something that is instantaneous. Change takes time and is often uncomfortable. You've taken a fantastic step forward.

Thank you! Im trying very VERY hard to change. Im trying to learn to be patient with myself.

 

[Anarchy]

There is a line of thought that even when we do find a preferable coping strategy, that we should try to consciously use the less functional one for another month.

it is supposed, for most people, to become impossible to use the old strategy consciously for that long.

However, if they try to switch to the new strategy straight away, there's a risk of it not working as effectively as the old strategy, so they loose faith in changing.

@scout86 your T continues to get cooler and cooler.:cool:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

There is a line of thought that even when we do find a preferable coping strategy, that we should try to...

Im in a hurry trying to get read for work but are saying that if i do it foo fast i will end up back at the old one? Like try one for a bit or back and forth til the new one replaces the old? Or easing into the new one slowly?

I dont currently have any 'new ones' yet but determined to find some & when i do i want to know how to do it effectively!

Scout's therapist sounds way awesome!

 

[scout86]

i was reminded to tell people it might be triggering.

Who ever told you that should go back and read up on how they do things here. "Trigger alerts" aren't used. Anything can trigger someone. We have no way of knowing what might be a problem for someone else. Everyone's responsible for deciding what they do and don't want to read. So, NTW.

so as long as i think that im everything horrible; i dont know if i can see that i owe anything to myself.

Ok. Then let's change the word. Even if you don't "owe" it to yourself, doesn't it make sense to work towards the most accurate map you can have? What reasons would there be for wandering around using a map from 1847 NOW?

Maybe if i can change my dialog about them first? Maybe if i can see the rituals as 'not a bad thing' then maybe i can seperate the ritual & the punishment?

That makes total sense to me. Now, I, personally, don't like your rituals. I understand the reasons they exist, I just don't like them. But they are only "bad" if someone chooses to label them that way. Basically, they just "are". And, yeah, you can update and modify them without labeling them at all. There are needs that they fulfill. They have uses that have helped you survive. They have actual VALUE because they've done that. Even though I don't like them, I'm not going to say they don't have value. But, now, as an adult, in a different situation, with more and better information, I think you can find different ways to fulfill those same needs. And you might find that some of those old needs are no longer valid too.

your T continues to get cooler and cooler

Scout's therapist sounds way awesome!

He is both way cool and the scariest person I know. (And he always pretends to be puzzled when I say that. LOL)

 

[lostforgottensoul]

While driving to work today, still bad anxiety as i dont take my xanax til i get to work which is always around 30 mins early.

Usually i have bad road rage (no one knows how to drive here) but today was the FIRST day since this has been unsupressed, that the entire 8 and a half mile drive im BELTING out songs from the radio, way off key & all and SMILING!

Every once in a while yell "why do we have to go 30 in a 45?" but then was able to get my thoughts back on the song!

I cannot deny that shifting blame off of me did SOMETHING! Now im just trying to keep it there as its trying to move back.

Just thought id share that. :)

 

[scout86]

Just thought id share that.

I'm glad you did.

My T actually gave me :"singing along with the radio" as a homework assignment once. :confused: I still don't know what the point was. Now and then he'll ask if I'm still doing it. (I am....)

Have a good day! :)