Hanger On-ners - Those On Here Who Don't Have Ptsd

[Refib]

Yet want to be on here as members "with" PTSD because they want / need somewhere to share their pain (or in more tragic cases - just want to have people feel sorry for them....)

@anthony do you flush them out or do you just let them stay in here indefinitely?

What if they've been challenged to say what their criterion A trauma is and they merely skirt around it citing 'well different things affect people in different ways' and they refuse to acknowledge they don't have ACTUAL TRAUMA (even though they might have a knot of distress and have had really difficult things happen to them).

(I hope this was the right place to ask - I didn't want to put it on the help desk as I didn't want to make a link to who the member might be and I wasn't sure if it was ok to email you one on one. Apologies if I should have - I can PM you if that's better).

I know there have been other threads posted about this issue - and when I was new on here I didn't get 'the big deal' but now, it really really annoys me - I feel it's making a mockery of the purpose of the forum when anyone who feels aggrieved can join up and post under the guise of having PTSD when they do not.

Advice / comments welcome.

 

[Ohi]

testing.....my screen isn't showing up as "anon" as it ususally does....

 

[Eco]

Ok, well it seems that we are pretty good about saying "go see a professional to get an accurate diagnosis" and then say "if you ONLY have a non criteria A 'trauma', ie being cheated on, then no, you don't have PTSD." Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I don't see all these people who are hanging on...

I noticed the one person who refused to name her trauma and was super defensive, but haven't really noticed much else lately. I completely understand. You are going to get SO much smack for this thread, I am guessing, because some will see it as a comparison of traumas. I'm not criticizing you at all, because at the end of the day, there ARE varying degrees of trauma and there ARE varying degrees of PTSD.... Just look at any one of those threads that debates whether PTSD can be cured. I mean I think its funny that so many will argue a cure but then turn around and say yeah, we all suffer the same, there is no comparing. Uhm, well if some can heal and others can't then DUH, there ARE varying degrees of trauma and PTSD. Sorry, tangent I know....

My advice? Put those people on ignore, feel sorry for them for 5 seconds (because yeah, its sad to fake PTSD) and then move on. Don't let them occupy valuable brain space. They don't deserve it!

 

[Vugaja]

It drives me beyond my limits when people don't bother to look up and seriously read the criteria. Look, I didn't even consider that I might have PTSD, and when diagnosed was shocked that I fit in a very straightforward way.

There's a reason for the criteria for EVERY mental illness/ disorder. Like it or not, there needs to be a way to codify. Not just for insurance, but for some consistency of diagnosis across the field.

The criterion, in my opinion , make it much easier to rule out PTSD than to prove it.

And every person who posts having not even bothered to read , research, interpret the criteria is (as far as I'm concerned) a potential problem.

I appreciate being able to relate to and know I'm hearing from fellow sufferers. Not people who don't really understand what this is from the inside out.

 

[Azubu]

Something I've come to realise through experience, is that all people have issues to deal with. Then depending upon experience, people can be very effected by things that are too far beyond their personal normal.

There are people in far off countries who have lived in severe poverty all their lives. Children follow their parents onto rubbish dumps to find scraps to eat. I've had abuse in my life that many people can't comprehend, like I can't comprehend the lives of those people in that other land.

I can survive rape. But if you put me in that land and told me that that was it, I would survive if I found food or something to sell on the tip, and die if I didn't, and that it is as likely that I will die from disease from the water I drink, and if I survive, I'm likely to face the death of my children time and time again. And I know that, because my siblings and children have died on the floor next to me after keeping me awake for days screaming in agony and delirium. Hey, maybe next year soldiers will come for no known reason, with guns, and rape the women and girls, and kill some of the men, and starving or dying of disease from water, will be the normality that you would want to get back to.

Imagine what that person might feel if they knew we were here, with a community to get help from, therapists, psychiatrists, homes, food, health care?

That's the reason why comparisons are always flawed in their understanding. There are always people seemingly coping a lot better with a lot worse, and those coping a lot worse with a lot better, but it is a minefield of comparison that I don't know anyone who is capeable of understanding. Pretty much every type of trauma can be invalidated in comparison to another. What matters is that the individual gets help for whatever their problems are.

I invalidate my own trauma history immensely. When I went to my GP, it was the most terrifying thing I had ever done because I thought they would turn round and tell me there's nothing wrong with me, I was just creating problems and should just get over what happened in the past and stop making up problems and wasting their time. But I convinced myself to go, based on the argument that if I was creating problems to that extent, and unable to stop, then that was itself a problem.

But because of the way I am, I find it difficult to take people who very openly and easily share every single thing that's happened in their lives and say things like, they've had the worst trauma that their therapist has ever come across etc. But that's something that I've found a better understanding for, from listening to the person.

Yes of course, if someone doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, then it in their interests to inform them of that. And they may find more help on a forum that caters for people with their issues. But I think there is still some empathy to be found for those people, because they often do have some real problems that they are trying to find help with, just because it's not PTSD, doesn't mean it's not a problem for them.

 

[Pigipe]

OP here - I AM NOT talking about the person who did not name their trauma. I need to make that clear.

I AM talking about those that do not have a Criterion A.

Therefore they cannot and do not, have PTSD.

So - it is NOT about comparing traumas.

I am fully aware there are many awful things that happen but don't reach the threshold of Criterion A. I am aware those things can and do cause immense suffering and can severely limit a person's quality of life. But there are many other support threads for those issues.

I don't understand why it causes so much offense and defense when this is bought up. . If 'you' have a Criterion A trauma then you clearly belong here. So no need to get pissed off.

If 'you' haven't been diagnosed as having PTSD OR don't have a Criterion A trauma then it would make sense 'you' might get pissed off at this being bought up.

 

[Ejevo]

So you know who is responding....

We allow people here for many reasons, PTSD, supporters, researchers, therapists, so forth... but it is also clear that they identify clearly their position in the scheme of PTSD. I have no issue if a student is here researching and trying to understand PTSD, providing they say that, and don't claim otherwise.

Where I get issue with a member is when they deceive others. If a person is claiming they have PTSD on the forum, yet you know they don't, because they have admitted such or admitted they have no criterion A trauma, then report the user, add all information passed through the forum into the report, PC URL, so forth. I can read it all, and I will under such circumstances. You can report a user from their profile if the report is of a general nature, or you can use the link on any of their posted content, just highlight the problem clearly.

I cannot take the word of any member against another, as that would ensue chaos. I need the evidence to review, I need a history to view and read for myself to see what you see, if there.

There are people here who don't have PTSD, but have a criterion A trauma... and that is accepted and allowed because I would rather a person with that level of trauma here and helping themselves before they do develop PTSD, or maybe they're unsure about getting diagnosed... again, as long as they're honest about their standing in things. When a member lies and deceives others, that is where I do take action, because I don't like it. Not saying anything is one thing, but claiming you have PTSD when you have no criterion A trauma... I tend to shut that noise down quickly if proven.

People mention a current thread about being cheated upon, yet the member did state they have a history that involves a criterion A trauma, they're simply asking if PTSD develops from being cheated on. In that case, things have been outlined for them, that they may have PTSD from their prior trauma and the current stressor of being cheated on has thrown them over the edge with PTSD. They don't have PTSD from being cheated on... they have PTSD from their criterion A trauma... the current stressor was just the trigger for it to unleash / reveal itself. I gave up smoking, which was keeping mine masked and contained to enough a degree that I could function... then shit hit the fan as a result. The trigger for PTSD is just that though, I didn't get PTSD from giving up smoking, I got PTSD from my operational tours (combat trauma, humanitarian stuff, so forth). There are people who say they got PTSD from losing their job, yet that is not a criterion A trauma. When you delve into their history, they have a history of trauma / an event the meets criterion A, and they've been workaholic which masks and contains the PTSD. They lose their job, suddenly their mask has crumbled, their coping mechanism gone, along with stressors of finance, getting new job, so forth... suddenly the PTSD that was there, but contained, now comes to light. Some think they got it from losing their job... but if they have prior trauma you will quickly understand things as they describe their life.

Trauma is not equal, PTSD symptom severity is not equal, symptoms themselves are pretty much equal, along with the diagnosis, being there is only officially one, even though many claim and obtain all sorts of non-legal diagnoses from those who are deemed to be the professionals of the mental health industry. Go figure that one out.

 

[Refib]

OP here - thank you @anthony

(I would like to reiterate I was not talking about the thread or member you discussed above).

When I was new on the forums I felt very stressed about topics such as this that I have posted - I too would feel every defensive and would chime in for the person who - while not having had a Criterion A trauma, were clearly traumatised and I thought it was 'mean' if they weren't allowed here to post for support.

As time has gone on however, my view has changed. I have opened up a lot more and it's become more important to me that I am posting amongst those who I know actually DO have PTSD (Criterion A trauma). Knowing it is a safe place, where (unless indicated like you said Anthony - they have clearly stated they are a researcher, spouse, supporter etc) I know those responding to my posts understand the experience of PTSD is really important to me.

If I wanted to be on a forum with groups of people with primarily a range of mental illnesses, I would go be there.

Again I'd like to make it clear that it is NOT an issue of saying someone's trauma is less than someone else's - people who are exercising trauma symptoms might very well be suffering 'as' much as someone with PTSD - BUT - their symptoms and experiences are not the same if their trauma was not the result of Criterion A; where in general yr (or a loved one's) life was under threat.

 

[Pucaki]

Azubu here. In my post I did agree that someone without PTSD should be directed elsewhere, and informed that they don't meet criteria A:

Yes of course, if someone doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, then it in their interests to inform them of that. And they may find more help on a forum that caters for people with their issues.

But what does it say about people with PTSD, if we talk anonymously about 'flushing' them because they piss us off? Maybe it has different meanings elsewhere, but to me 'flushing' is what's done to a toilet or a drain.

I think it was anthony said recently that 'normal' is what rules, and that we have to fit in to the world of 'normal'. So if in the world of normal, a partner leaving you, or losing a job etc causes significant distress, then we have to try to imagine what it must be like for that person, if that is what they find distressing. So that's the way I'm thinking.

No I don't think they should be on a PTSD forum if they don't have PTSD. But that is up to anthony to sort out in the proper admin way. Not to write an anonymous post talking about flushing people out. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe we should just let ourselves get angry and tell people they piss us off. But I'm trying to be more sensitive.

 

[Refib]

But what does it say about people with PTSD, if we talk anonymously about 'flushing' them because they piss us off? Maybe it has different meanings elsewhere, but to me 'flushing' is what's done to a toilet or a drain..

OP here - as you said - it's a forum for those of us with PTSD. It's not about sending anyone down a drain or flushing them.

It's about them finding support more geared for their issues. It can actually be seen as a kind thing I think, if done sensitively - by moderators. Why? Because I don't think it would be particularly helpful for someone who is distressed about loss of a job, relationship break up, or a hoard of other stressful life events to be on a forum seeking help for PTSD. It would be like someone with depression trying to get support from those with schizophrenia. It doesn't say anything about us as people with PTSD. I'm sure Antony or a moderator would handle any such situation sensitivity, and re-direct any such members to supports / forums more sited to help the member who doesn't have PTSD.

I started this thread because I wanted to know the correct procedure to do - I was not sure if it was a case of flagging a post of a member or sending the moderators a PM. Now I know what to do, I can do that if the issues bothers me.

I deliberately chose the anonymous forum so as to NOT confront the person / persons directly - I think that might cause them harm to do so. I wanted a more sensitive way to approach the issue without pointing to anyone in particular.

AND when this issue comes up again (as it always does) perhaps someone (like me) not sure what to do will read this thread and know how to address it.

 

[Eco]

Uhm, is this all HYPOTHETICAL because I don't see this happening on the forum beyond the introduction forum or possibly a random "is this PTSD?" post elsewhere.....but all within the newbies first few posts.

Can someone truly say this is a major problem here on the forum? I guess I just don't see the big deal------oh, wait, there is one person who has been here for awhile, but I have a feeling she only raises red flags with me. As in, I can spot the abnormal pattern of behavior that doesn't fit in with what anyone else has posted, but then again, I think she actually does have PTSD but with a whole slew of other issues in which h/she is in denial, or maybe this person really is a big faker. Either way, I don't even bother interacting with this person because its just so far out there.....

 

[Ejevo]

It's not a major issue on this forum. There will always be one or two problematic members from a staff viewpoint, and there will always be differing opinions between members, which is what ignore is for.