Have you ever questioned the diagnosis?

[Never_falter2]

@Freida: My Vet isn‘t even hyperactive and dramatic. He can be nervous and hyperactive but no he is not „dramatic“, he hates drama and he does not hate close bounds. In fact he can be very clingy sometimes.
Again I read nothing about „clingy Vet“ on the supporters boards but this could be the case because it does not brother people so much. I‘ll have to ask.
I asked for non-aggressive Vets btw there btw and did not get many answers @joeylittle.

 

[Freida]

Have you and he asked his T to go over the DSM with you and show you which ones he matches? My T had to do that with me because I was so in denial and so good at hiding my symptoms that I didn't recognize most of them in my self. Even hubby didn't until he actually read the criteria. She would read one, and then go back over answers I had given her or things I had done that matched and explain her reasoning for connecting them. It didn't make me happy, but it did make it easier to accept. It still may not convince you he has PTSD but if nothing else it will give you both a better idea of what symptoms she is targeting and what the ultimate goal of therapy is, regardless of the name of the associated illness.

 

[Never_falter2]

Not sure if they did that.
But personally I think he matches the dsm diagnosis points a bit (only that it is less servers) but he does not match what other People spouses who have ptsd do... and hubby noticed he saw less trauma then other people with the diagnosis and thinks that is not good he was diagnosed with ptsd and they were not... and he thinks it makes him less of a man.

 

[mumstheword]

People are people. PTSD sufferers are people. People are individuals who all have their own unique way of dealing with things. We all deal with symptoms differently.
My guy isn't a vet but he's survived being stabbed in the neck, beating to an inch of his life, which left him unable to talk, read or write for a while, just for starters ... He never starts fights, picks on me, treats people badly, but he won't tolerate disrespect , which I think is fair enough. He doesn't isolate from me either. PTSD doesn't mean people are assholes or grumpy, rude, mean.

 

[Cyberluddite]

Not only "people are people", but there's a difference between what civilians and veterans may consider "less trauma than others". It's like going from comparing "apples to oranges", to comparing "apples to a Honda Civic".

Both environments are equally valid and relevant, as they both exist, but are different in scope. Vets are trained to compartmentalize the traumatic events they witness or experience. It's part of the training necessary to keep soldiers functional enough to continue fighting. Outside of hospital ERs, inpatient psych facilities, and war zones, most civilians don't usually have as much of a need to do so.

It can feel rather frustrating, even a bit humiliating, to have the years of experience to know you've overcome the impossible endless times, even when you had nothing but your wits and a need to survive... and one day, wake up and find yourself completely powerless against something inside your own head. Your frustration at having difficulty trying to understand what your Vet's dealing with, that's actually pretty common.

I'm surprised that more threads on that topic don't exist on here, but I'm sure that if you asked the admin they could offer guidance on how to start one correctly. The worst they can say is "no".

To put what @joeylittle said in a simpler way, you can't rationalize irrational behavior. No matter what caused it, no matter when it happened, how severe or for how long, PTSD is like living in an alternate universe where everything looks the same as before... but there's just something a little bit off and you can't quite figure out why.

A bit Heinlein-esque, but still a common frustration for both sides. After a while you just go with the flow, and take it one day at a time.

 

[joeylittle]

I asked for non-aggressive Vets btw there btw and did not get many answers @joeylittle.

You mean this thread: Is your vet clingy??
That's not about non-aggression. That's a post about you having problems with your Vet following you around.

I do know that English isn't your first language, and it probably affects the way you frame questions. But I also wonder why you are so stuck on this:

he does not match what other People spouses who have ptsd do

you are basing this off of....posts on an internet board? I honestly don't get it. Can we get really specific for a moment about what you are trying to understand, here.

Your spouse thinks that his PTSD diagnosis makes him less of a man.
Your spouse spends a lot of time wondering if he should have been given a PTSD diagnosis.
You are trying to help by also investigating whether your spouse actually has PTSD.

Is that right? If not, can you help me understand what part I have wrong?

 

[Cyberluddite]

You mean this thread: Is your vet...

The issue is stereotype versus reality. Very little is properly taught or discussed, even outside of internet boards (such as this one), regarding what PTSD is and isn't. It doesn't help that society prefers peer-consensus sources like Wikipedia and Snopes, while defunding legitimate traditional sources like libraries.

Not everyone is aware of what others do, and not everyone is born omniscient. We all learn at different rates, we grow and heal at different rates.

We can't get our information from only one source, that's how you end up with stereotypes and "what other people do". Life is a learning process, and sometimes you have to spend a lot of time and effort to find that second apple.

Language is a relatively minor barrier, when PTSD is universal.

 

[Sandstone]

Yes, I question the diagnosis all the time. I think it is part of the condition. But my doubt isn't based on not having specific symptoms. Though would be more convinced if I had had more than two flashbacks.I've been over and over the diagnostic criteria, both here and with therapists, and I agree that I seem to fit them. But even though I know it is true, I still don't believe it, because I'm me so I can't possibly have it.

nearly all sufferers on this boards seem to have anger management issues

. I think the explosiveness belongs manly to the vets doesn't it? My temper is better regulated than it was before PTSD. That is because I want to vanish, by whatever means are available. So I'm not going to draw attention to myself by raging.

 

[Cyberluddite]

@Never_falter ... I found something that may help explain the disconnect a little bit better. There is an actual scientific basis behind this, called the "Rosenham Experiment", which was run in a psychiatric hospital in 1971. In this scenario, Dr. David L. Rosenham wanted to figure out why sane people couldn't spot mentally ill people, yet mentally ill people had a better awareness of sane people (like non-patients). You can't rationalize irrational behavior, unless you're irrational enough to know the difference.

This is one of the major reasons why some of the most dangerous criminals and serial killers in history were repeatedly able to fool investigators. They understood the cops better than the cops themselves did.

Source: Rosenham, D. L. (1973 Jan 19) "On Being Sane in Insane Places." Science: Vol. 179 Iss. 4070 (pp. 250-8). Print version available.

One of the biggest drawbacks to relying on peer-consensus sources, instead of exploring diversified the streams of information, is the "Dunning-Kruger Effect". Based on a 1999 research project by Justin Kruger and David Dunning at Cornell University, it helped explain the cognitive bias.

Credentials and degrees aren't enough to compete with experience, because the more you learn, the less you understand... which in turn means there is more to learn.

Source: Kruger, J. & Dunning, D. (1999 Dec) "Unskilled and Unaware of It: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments." Journal of Personal Social Psychology: Vol. 77 Iss. 6 (pp. 1121-34). Print version available.

Hope this helps.

 

[Never_falter2]

@joeylittle it is a number of things. I am not saying „there is no way he can have ptsd“, I say „sometimes I question the diagnosis“. Big difference. One thing about me: I question everything... so it is not really a surprise I question my husbands ptsd diagnosis.
Why do I question it?
A number of reasons.
I noticed hubby does not show the symptoms other sufferers show but often the opposite (meek vs. aggressive, clingy vs. isolating).
Hubby has not seen enough trauma
Hubby is sometimes questioning the diagnosis
He has some symptoms that could point to neurological problems such as facial twitching
Not sure if the diagnosis helps hubby, because it makes him feel bad about himself
Do I want you to diagnose him with something different instead. Nope. Just wanna talk and see who else had this kind of doubt and what they did.

 

[Cyberluddite]

I agree. Asking questions, and comparing notes, is how Survivors better understand the situations they face in life. It's also essential for Supporters, as it helps them adapt to the curveballs that Survivors regularly have to deal with.

Even if an internet board, or a book, or a fellow Supporter or Survivor doesn't have the answers we need, often times they can point us towards one who might. This is the strength of a community, regardless of online or offline.

Health care is a team effort. It's the same with raising a child, caring for the sick and wounded, and relearning how to be a productive member of society after developing PTSD. If we don't ask, then we don't know... and what we don't know can hurt others, even the ones we love.

"The true measure of a society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members." -- Mahatma Gandhi

I question everything, because I want to be wrong.

 

[Freida]

I question everything, because I want to be wrong.

yep ---

It can feel rather frustrating, even a bit humiliating, to have the years of experience to know you've overcome the impossible endless times, even when you had nothing but your wits and a need to survive... and one day, wake up and find yourself completely powerless against something inside your own head.

And then you have to admit it to the people around you -- and try to explain that your own brain has turned on you and you don't want to face it

But even though I know it is true, I still don't believe it, because I'm me so I can't possibly have it.

Yep - because only the weak get ptsd. So it can't be me. I'm not weak, I don't randomly shoot at people when I'm mad, I don't beat up my loved ones, I don't have flashbacks that send me running for cover. I'm fine. Just. fine. Don't you dare imply otherwise! Anddddddd my Ts have been trying to get me to admit that PTSD doesn't equal weak for a long time. Once they can get me past that then my healing can really begin

Hubby has not seen enough trauma

I have to admit I laughed at this but not in a funny way. More it was that or cry. It has taken me two years to write out my trauma timeline because I KNEW I hadn't seen or done anything that would fall under "trauma". I just had some unfortunate events in a very adventurous life but none of it was trauma. Then came the therapy appointment where I had to admit that I killed a terrorist in a fight. No training, no weapons, just me and him. I won and moved on...so nope. no trauma. My civilian T tried not to cry and my VA one tried not to laugh. I STILL don't know if that counts as ptsd because it isn't the worst thing I survived. But it went a long way towards no longer fighting the diagnosis and instead working on the symptoms. It's not unusual that he is fixated on not accepting the diagnosis if he doesn't see the cause.

As for being clingy --- could it be that he doesn't want you out of his sight because he needs to keep you where he can see you at all times so you don't end up dead? Is he following you around like a puppy that wants to be petted or is he following you around so he can be there to protect you when the bullets start flying? One is self esteem - the other is hypervigilance (which I would feel safe to say all with ptsd have.)

Here's a random thought -- a lot of vets have traumatic brain injuries along with PTSD. has he been checked for that? It could explain some of the physical reactions.