I have heard a theory that explains why truthers may believe our government was behind 9/11 - and it actually helped me understand some of my reactions to ptsd, as well. Some psychologists hypothesize that it is less scary to believe that our government was behind 9/11 - then there is possibly some way we could control it and make it not happen again. It somehow makes the evil seem less random (I know, hard to believe - it is an interesting theory, though!). To believe that some evil, independent outside force came and did this to us is far scarier. It seemed to me very similar to why I blame myself for being sexually abused as a child - it is less scary than thinking there are evil people out there in the world (priests, neighbors,relatives, parents), ready and willing to destroy the lives of innocent children for their own power trip. If it was my fault, perhaps I can control it and it won't happen again.
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News Hooray! Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!!!!
- Post starter Heather
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So what? There is no denying he was a passionate believer in peaceful resistance and was staunchly anti-violence. The things that were done to the African American community in his time were equally as horrific as any act of terrorism. And yet he never wavered from his aversion to meeting violence with more violence. It's a question of results. He never stopped preaching peaceful protest in the face of hatred and violence, and lo and behold, his movement was responsible for some of the biggest changes in segregation laws. The memory of that time period is still quite fresh in the minds of many people. In this case his words ring true to the core. Killing and imprisoning is not the solution for ending extremism. If death was such a strong consequence and deterrent for such people, suicide bombers wouldn't be a problem.
And mysihba, I never said killing someone was never necessary for the protection of one's self others, only that it's never something to be proud of or celebrate. We killed one person who was the self proclaimed master mind of 9/11, but in the process thousands of people were killed who didn't need to be.
Also, I don't know about you, but I've had one encounter with a rattlesnake in my life. I was hiking in the grand canyon when I saw one directly in front of me. If I had walked a couple more steps I would've stepped on it. Did it rear up its head and hiss at me? Did it bare its deadly fangs?
Nope. It took one look at me, then turned away, slithered off, and hid under a bush.
femaleveteran
Silver Member
At the same time, the way a friend of mine put it when he tried to hire a nephew of his who had been in prison for stealing, did his time and got out.....he ended up stealing his uncle blind when he worked in his hardware store.....His uncle said when he found out how he was being robbed blind, "You just cannot rehabilitate a rattlesnake".
I do not think Bin Laden ccould have ever have been rehabilitated. I do hope and pray that his wives and his children are given every opportunity to get the help they need to undo the years of psychological damage that man put them through with all his hateful rhetoric which I am sure he preached to them on a hourly basis. I also hope they can get help with the PTSD they are surely to have suffered wihen the Navy SeAls went in and shot up their home and killed Bin Laden right in front of his daughter.
Of course going back to the issue with my friends nephew, That is not to say that Prison has not rehabilitated quite a few people, but the state of American prisons, and how they have become privatized money making machines today makes it harder and harder to do so. They are getting huge government contracts to warehouse criminals and nothnig more. They are not given money to try to rahb these people or to teach them a trade or to try to get them an education....they are simply warehousing these inmates until it is time to let them out and then they give them a couple hundred dollars, phone numbers for some homeless shelter and a busticket to the nearest inner city. The fact that they give them bus tickets to the inner cities should tell alot of us exactly how much respect the prison system has for the people that live in those areas. I do not see them giving bus tickets to Bill gate's nieighborhoood after all. I only know this because their is a huge private prison not more than 6 miles away from where I live and it employees a good bit of the people who live in my community. There is a saying that if you do not work in the local prison then you most likely live there.
That and the fact that the US Private prison system in this country is one of the fastest growing sectors in the business world shows that the US government has a vested interest in keeping people in prison as do the private prison officials whose livelihoods depend upon it.
I do not think Bin Laden ccould have ever have been rehabilitated. I do hope and pray that his wives and his children are given every opportunity to get the help they need to undo the years of psychological damage that man put them through with all his hateful rhetoric which I am sure he preached to them on a hourly basis. I also hope they can get help with the PTSD they are surely to have suffered wihen the Navy SeAls went in and shot up their home and killed Bin Laden right in front of his daughter.
Of course going back to the issue with my friends nephew, That is not to say that Prison has not rehabilitated quite a few people, but the state of American prisons, and how they have become privatized money making machines today makes it harder and harder to do so. They are getting huge government contracts to warehouse criminals and nothnig more. They are not given money to try to rahb these people or to teach them a trade or to try to get them an education....they are simply warehousing these inmates until it is time to let them out and then they give them a couple hundred dollars, phone numbers for some homeless shelter and a busticket to the nearest inner city. The fact that they give them bus tickets to the inner cities should tell alot of us exactly how much respect the prison system has for the people that live in those areas. I do not see them giving bus tickets to Bill gate's nieighborhoood after all. I only know this because their is a huge private prison not more than 6 miles away from where I live and it employees a good bit of the people who live in my community. There is a saying that if you do not work in the local prison then you most likely live there.
That and the fact that the US Private prison system in this country is one of the fastest growing sectors in the business world shows that the US government has a vested interest in keeping people in prison as do the private prison officials whose livelihoods depend upon it.
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anthony
Founder
"Truthers", now that's funny. :roflmao:
Ronin, I've had lots of encounters with rattlesnakes. One difference is they are not our sworn enemies. They usually but not always leave if they can. The hiker walking behind you might not have been so lucky. I appreciate your comments but think you missed the point of the "rattlesnake".,,or I didn't explain it well.
I don't want to drag this on, but the nature of the snake is to bite you if you get too close or surpise him. Assuming they will all get out of the way is a mistake, as is the fact that one can be bitten after they are dead with head removed....trying to paint a bigger picture here. The good knews is few aggresively attack without reason (but some will). Can't say the same re. our sworn enemies. They both should be treated the same...killed, head cut off and buried...before they bite an innocent child (that gets ugly)...or bites somebody that is trying to do the right thing in the middle of a den.
I don't want to drag this on, but the nature of the snake is to bite you if you get too close or surpise him. Assuming they will all get out of the way is a mistake, as is the fact that one can be bitten after they are dead with head removed....trying to paint a bigger picture here. The good knews is few aggresively attack without reason (but some will). Can't say the same re. our sworn enemies. They both should be treated the same...killed, head cut off and buried...before they bite an innocent child (that gets ugly)...or bites somebody that is trying to do the right thing in the middle of a den.
"Truthers" say...some people cannot be rehabed. (nice word). The bottom line is...the world is not a nice place. Some times we have to be content to know that, despite maybe having lost everything, we never stopped trying to do the right thing and holding the high ground. I guess "waterboarding" is not consider holding the high ground but I believe some info that led to OBL came from "waterboarding" info. Doing so is a "terrible thing". Having some water run into your nose is considered a small price to pay by the parents of the warrior child or innocent non-combatant that was saved by the info gleaned....and the water boarding "victim" (OH please !) didn't suffer but short term discomfort and maybe near panic. Perhaps we should just cut off their arms and legs like "they" would do...and heads. Yes WE are the really evil ones here. Maybe common sense will over rule denial and the belief that Loving everybody will cause the snake to not bite, and the evil ones that are comitted to wiping us out...to just love us.
Meanwhile the poor water boarded "victim" can find help here in the forum for his devasting case of PTSD>
Meanwhile the poor water boarded "victim" can find help here in the forum for his devasting case of PTSD>
ms spock
VIP Member
As a venomous snake handler I never put myself in the position where the snake would feel it's only option was to bite people. I always allowed a space for which it could escape in to - even my snake handling bag was an option.
I never killed any snakes nor left any snakes behind for someone to be bitten by.
I removed venomous snakes from offices, buildings, homes, cars, courts, aviaries and so forth. I always relocated the snake in its area but far away as people as possible.
There is also the distinction of "Dry" bites and "Wet bites". As venom is biologically expensive most bites are "dry" that is containing no venom. Wet bites are when venom is used. As long you apply a firm bandage and go to the hospital you will be fine. The only people who died one year (and this was embarrassing) - were two white males who didn't seek medical attention after being bitten by a venomous snake.
If a snake is dead it is dead. However if it bites a piece of material and you touch that with a open wound on your hand you can get envenomated up to 100 years later. If you pick up a dead snake and open its mouth and let yourself get scratched by the fangs you could get envenomated.
The majority of people who get bitten in Australia are white mean between the ages of 15 and 55 who are trying to kill the venomous snake.
I often go bush walking and see many venomous snakes and they have never approached me. Those with me don't notice them and thus think they have encountered no venomous snakes on that particular bush walk. Then I show them all the photos that I took and they are blown away.
The Inland Taipan is one snake I have no experience in handling and I don't know the species specific behaviour so I would certainly give it a wide berth.
It is not necessary for you to kill any venomous snakes. In fact some years the only people who get bitten are those who are trying to kill one.
Snakes play a role in our biodiversity and in the ecosystems in Australia. They are protected fauna here.
ms spock
ms spock
VIP Member
Not everyone who undergoes a trauma will get PTSD. There are many people who under go trauma and don't develop PTSD. I think we need to be clear on that. It is not inevitable.
Ms Spock
ms spock
VIP Member
The whole prison thing is a real worry.
And once again not everyone who goes through trauma experiences PTSD.
We might all have PTSD but it doesn't mean that other people will get it.
ms spock
I cannot even begin to express how I am filled with undiluted rage at this comment. It's not often that I get truly angry, reading through this thread has pushed some of my buttons so far but I can honestly say that I find this comment to be highly offensive.
Torture, which is what waterboarding is defined as, is not only an unreliable method method of gathering information and a very serious crime. It's inhumane and should not be acceptable in any way, shape or form. Here are some more examples of torture:
"Electric Shocks
Electric shocks are commonly used in South America and Africa. Sources of electric shocks include power outlets, portable generators, cattle probes, and stunt guns (1-11). Electric probes are often placed on sensitive organs, such as earlobes and genitalia. Long-term physical marks from electric shocks are typically discrete and minor, although some victims may experience a permanent seizure disorder. In contrast, the immediate complications of electric shocks are potentially lethal: tonic-clonic seizures and cardiac arrhythmias.
Sexual Torture
Sexual torture includes sexual humiliation (e.g. pejorative comments), trauma to genitalia (e.g. suspension of heavy objects from the genitalia, castration, instrumentation), and rape.
The international Crime Tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia charged rape as a war crime. Rape is used effectively to terrorize entire communities. In Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, for instance, women were frequently raped in front of relatives or their communities, leaving them ostracized, repudiated by husbands and other relatives.
Sexual torture produces long-lasting mental and physical sequelae. In rape cases, these include unwanted pregnancy and sexual transmitted diseases.
Mental Torture
Almost all victims of torture suffer some form of mental torture. Direct threats to him/her or to a relative are by far the most common form of torture. Other forms of mental torture include sensory deprivation, poor conditions during detention, mock executions, long interrogations, and being forced to torture another person, witness the torture of another person, or watch killings and rapes. Sensory deprivation includes detention in complete darkness, exposure to bright lights and constant noises, or sleep deprivation. Lack of food, potable water, toilet, bed, windows, aeration, medical care, and communication are examples of poor conditions during detention (1-11)."
([DLMURL="http://www.bu.edu/bcrhhr/pro/course/mental/types.html"]http://www.bu.edu/bcrhhr/pro/course/mental/types.html[/DLMURL])
Are those just "small price to pay" to save a life?
Are you suggesting that one form of trauma is acceptable and another isn't? What if you had PTSD because you'd been picked up and detained, for years with no trial, no lawyer and without seeing your family or your friends, with that happening to you on a daily basis?
How could you wish that on another human being, no matter what they'd done?
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ms spock
VIP Member
It makes perfect sense to me.
And I too blame myself - it is easier than realising there was no one there that actually cared about you.
ms spock
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