How A Family Can Be A Cult

[scout86]

Interesting article.

It seems like most cult leaders fall somewhere along the narcissist/psychopath spectrum. People who live in the fat part of that bell shaped distribution tend not to want that kind of control over other people. Most people on that spectrum have the ability to be charming. They 'get' what people need and how to use that to get what THEY need. I don't know that this is always conscious. It may be what my T insists on calling 'pre-conscious'. Doesn't matter. One of the things that comes with the narc/psychopath world view is the ability to charm people, when they want to.

The past few weeks, there's been a lot of talk in my therapy sessions about the president-elect in the US. I'm not sure why, other than that he resembles some people in my family and my T is using him to talk about other stuff. (I'm still waiting for illumination on exactly where he's going with all this.) One of the points my T keeps coming back to is that people like our president-elect appeal to what he calls the 'mammalian' part of our brains. They sort us into 'tribes, because that 'us against them' dynamic is useful. They focus on perceived shortages. "There isn't enough to go around. You DESERVE yours. THEY are taking it away from you. WE have to get it back." etc. And, MOST people have a place somewhere inside where they'd like to turn all this 'adult' stuff over to someone else to take care of for them because it's HARD. This guy is not only offering to do it, he says he's GOOD at it. Works in a family. Works in a cult. Works in a nation too. And it works because people are people, regardless of how you organize them.

Something to watch out for, always, is a group where it's not ok to hold your own opinions. That's a sign that something's wrong. And it doesn't matter how big or small the group is.

 

[Muttly]

I'm going to come back to this later when I have time, but I wanted to make a quick comment now. I'm so glad you made this post. A while back I mentioned that my family was like a call to my therapist. I was really worried about what she would say thinking I was way off track. She said yes.

 

[Ronin]

Toxic families are toxic families and families that are a cult are a different thing.

Similar traits don't make for similar dynamics, & similar doesn't make for the same.

I've lived in a cultic family. I've lived heckuva long time with family-based (values, etc.) cults. I've lived with cults structured AS families / understanding each other as family in nomenclature and else, without it being a central part of the dogma. As well as companies that don't fall anywhere on the cult scale & are strongly bound together by familiar ties, are tight knit enough some might understand it as a form of an indoctrination.

Point though? They are All. Different. Things.
Viewing one through the lens of other doesn't help making sense of it much.

All colors on a spectrum are colors. But you don't run through the red lights just because it's 'just the same as greens'. It just isn't. The meaning is different. The context is different. The rules are different, and for different situations.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Can a family be a cult? Yes, mine was (or at least mom, step dad, and followers). But there was a spiritual and set of behaviors being directed to and following, with a specific written "bible" that has specific rituals and specific punishments. Specific sacrifices to "god". And "brainwashing" was done at every step and twisted around.

Though many don't believe me because it was my mom & step dad.

Can a family have a hierarchy that could be structured in a cult fashion, with the people in the family suffering as they would if they were in a 'non familial' cult?

This one is a little harder for me to see as a cult but would say "cult-like" at times.

In cults, there is a "cause". Something the entire group (usually Spiritual though not always) that they are lead to by their leader. Same beliefs and behaviors.

That said, I just started to see that my dad's side of the family works so much like the cult. Their leader, my mom and her "2nd in command" my brother's wife. I am not saying they are a cult, I am saying they remind me of the cult.

There are groups that come close to cults that I have seen in documentries and what it likely would turn into if one or more than one didn't stop it.

If I am researched the most on it is cults. As a part of my therapy to understand cults are all "bad".

I understand the situation (as much as I can from talking here) and it does remind me of brainwashing, of the way some of your kids act like Stolkholm, but the family, to me, doesn't sound like a cult. It may be cult-like or bordering a cult, but the beliefs in a cult is what keeps it alive and if the belief is "dad is great" when he isn't, I agree that sounds more like "dad" is a Narc and manipulating the kids. Badly, but that's what it sounds like to me.

I would also say that it has some things in common with cults, which is what I mean by "cult-like" and connecting some of those dots are good to do as it helps to heal.

I am not saying your family is a cult or even bordering a cult. I am saying some the damage done are simular.

But, I also I don't tell people that this is or isn't a cult. I will advise how it's defined in general and by myself and some extreme families that can be a cult or near a cult. It's just what I see lacking is religious beliefs or other leading to certian beliefs that are central in that cult that normally doesn't allow it to fully cross the line as a cult.

So intresting article to connect some simularity dots as there are many things that have simularity as a cult and damage done by them.

So different for sure but there are some simiularity to them and some simiular damage, though an actual cult leaves very individual damage as well.

 

[Panda Bear]

My mom plays the "God" role.

All or nothing.
My way or no way.
I'm always in the right, you must submit to my every whim.
My way of thinking is correct, everyone else is in the wrong.

But under the correct definition of 'cult', no...I guess not. But my family survives by continuing the cycle of thinking I've listed above and in my opinion the damage can be similar in nature.

 

[pixel]

If they express autonomy are they threatened with 'you are no longer part of us?' propaganda? Do they lose their sense of selves because they are so enmeshed with 'the family'?

We're stomping on bruises here.

Husband did all the private abusive clichès, but publically, he had to make me shine because of our exemplary position in the community.

This unconsciously fed my parts within.
The dual reality I lived in was blind even to me. I defended him.

When I left (aka, got rescued) I was diagnosed with PTSD within 3 months and another 3 months later my DID walls came crashing down and my self of self vaporized.

Yes, @shimmerz, one gets shunned, treated as dead. And yes, identities rupture.
(May I add though, this is for a person with a history of child abuse.)

 

[Shortie]

The term cult can potential mean different to different people.

My mother is definately a narcissistic so, are some of my family from her sides a sister, nan and my others. Some of family members are too scared incase that they flying off at them. They will blackmail ect.

Its terrible, i am better off out of it and am more happier as a result but feel guilty which apparently is a normal feeling because of the abused and controls ect.

Now, my mother can say jump to everyone who doesnt want to hurt her in case she starts on them and they say how high. Shes the leader, she tried to sweep away her past and by doing so she wanted to shut me up she too. She wanted to control what i did who i spoke to ect.

She currently trying to prevent others family members talking to me so, they do in secret. Some of my sisters dont want me to turn up at their house in case she turn up by chance as they will be disowned and she will make like hell for them.

It has traits as a cult then it doesnt. People who meet her think she lovely, its only family that know others wise. She racist too, disgusting she never used to be until a few year back she changed her behaviour to suit her friends or relationships.

X

 

[Shine]

Hi
Yes yes yes yes yes. that's my opinion. cult like would definitely describe my upbringing accurately. keep strong xx
My therapist gave me the word too

 

[Ronin]

The thing is though, abusive & manipulative behavior or being very segregating & isolationist and fundamentalist, doesn't yet make anything a cult.

Some issues from that sort of an atmosphere are the same regardless of where your trauma comes from. Because they're trauma issues.

Other ones? Not so much. Others are going to be rather specific. Claiming it's the same because it's 'cult-like'? No. It's not the same.

Things aren't war-like that aren't an actual war. Things aren't kidnapping-like that aren't an actual kidnapping. Things aren't rape-like, things aren't torture-like, things aren't trafficking-like, things aren't murder-like.... unless they're those actual things.

 

[shimmerz]

The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by their religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or common interest in a particular personality, object or goal. The word "cult" has always been controversial because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices.[7][8]

So I am going to go back to this definition if it is okay.

The thing that grabs my attention (for my situation) is the philosophical beliefs or common interest in a particular personality, object, or goal. As well as 'attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices.

And I wonder, what is the difference between this and the cult definition above besides the fact that the common goal, object or personality just doesn't happen to be your mother or father.

Is the common goal not the same when someone tries to escape and then heal? Does there not need to be a process of reversing the brainwashing, that the only thing that should be important is what was taught to them (goal, object, personality of the group)? Will they not need to start all over again, possibly and most probably with family cult members attempting to sabotage them?

I am not actually trying to get across that this family stuff is cult like. I believe some families actually run as.a.cult.would. if the above definition is to be called valid.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Others are going to be rather specific. Claiming it's the same because it's 'cult-like'?

Things can be "cult-like". Many groups bordered the line of a cult. Many other groups are now being claimed as cult like.

Cult-like — Definition
The term ‘cult-like’ means: resembling a cult

Cult-like - Definition - Cult Definition

Yes, groups can be "cult-like" without crossing that boundry of being defined as a bonafied cult.

Is this? Not in my opinion but I don't know all the dynamtics to make a full opinion on that.

 

[Ronin]

Things can be "cult-like".

Absolutely.

My issue is with stamping a label on something based in artificial characteristics where those characteristics may not be enough to define the phenomenon.

It can mess up recovery quite a bit, and mess up an already trauma-difficult way of viewing the world.