How do I do “processing”?

[NightSky]

Thank you for sharing this. We sound so similar. I love what your T said. And I’m in the same place with mine. It’s terrifying. And I feel like I’m so bad at it too. You may feel like you’re not capable, but that’s because right now you may not be. That doesn’t mean you won’t be.

 

[barefoot]

Thanks @NightSky That’s a good point that I might be moving towards readiness but not quite there yet...or maybe I am ready and just scared?! But if I’m that scared, can I really be ready?!
Maybe I’m over-thinking?! ?

And I always think we sound similar too...I can always relate to your posts! And if I didn’t know that we’re on other sides of the world, I’d suspect that we share the same T as they always sound similar to me too.

We just need to keep showing up and keep on keeping on, right??

 

[Abstract]

Hi!

Do you know how it was that you were able to be more present? Was it just a keep showing up and chipping away and over time you became more tolerant to staying present? I think this is how it has been for me. Or did you specifically and consciously work on staying more present? And, if so, how did you do that?

So sorry to give the wrong impression. I'm afraid my last lot of therapy didn't get me that far as I was dissociated practically throughout and mute most of the rest of the time. Ironically though, if I am being honest with myself, I processed more in those few mute sessions than years and years of intellectual avoidance and the type of dissociation where I didn't let myself even near my emotions or what happened. I am no poster therapy client but have been working on trying to unwrap this all a bit and get over the obstacles!

Do you know how it was that you were able to be more present? Was it just a keep showing up and chipping away and over time you became more tolerant to staying present? I think this is how it has been for me. Or did you specifically and consciously work on staying more present? And, if so, how did you do that?

I have spent an enormous amount of time and energy on learning to stay present and although I am not currently in therapy (I don't know what would happen if I went back in) the really high levels of dissociation I used to have on a day to day level are almost entirely gone. I started practicing mindfulness. Not the meditation and rather moment by moment switching on to the present in a non judgmental way. I also studied different emotions, their function, there importance, tried to accept my right to them. I journelled my emotions and linked them to present day stuff, kept checking in with myself. Tried to find emotions and link them to experiences with the ... difficult people in my life. I essentially realised I didn't want to be here and see/feel/know almost anything in my life. The past, the difficulties with family and past perps, present day stuff. I had an ingrained seemingly lifetime "habit" of not being here. And that makes it pretty hard to process trauma. But at the same time I do think we need to respect our brains and work with them. I've tried running roughshod over my dissociation to get to trauma and that didn't go terribly well.

What I have found I think is that any authentic connection, even when it looks and feels messy and horrible, does more than a lot of all the rest.

Has your t taught you grounding and have your done much work on that? How are you about emotions and having them? Theoretically that is. I know the idea of them is... unappetising!

She said my go to to cope with (ie avoid, I guess) my feelings used to be to dissociate. And that I then shifted from dissociation to repression. And that, since I made that shift, I can make the next shift from repression to the next step.

It sounds like you have made real progress. Have you read Pete Walkers four f's?

I have to say that I think a part of it for me has been a lifetime of not discussing stuff. Not only the experiences (totally did not with them) but also any sort of discussion of my feelings and concerns with others. Asking for help pr support and receiving it. The whole thing is as counter intuitive as all whatever to me so I understand your thoughts on trying to talk when talking was not something you did before. That sounds like a great discussion with your t.

 

[Freida]

But it sounds horrendous to me. The thought of her witnessing my feelings feels awful and the idea of me needing to...I don’t know...lean in....more to our relationship feels terrifying. I told her that. She just smiled kindly and said she knew but that we’d get there.

yep --- still scares the crap out of me and I've been chipping at it for several years! But it does come.. in itty bitty steps. :hug:

 

[barefoot]

if I am being honest with myself, I processed more in those few mute sessions than years and years of intellectual avoidance

This resonates, actually...there were some times when I was dissociated in sessions and mute...I couldn't speak and wasn't really with it...but it always felt that there was a lot going on...a lots of intense feelings, which I couldn't really identify or express...but there was clearly stuff happening...My head being gone and my voice getting hijacked and silencing me didn't mean that nothing was happening...

I also studied different emotions, their function, there importance, tried to accept my right to them.

This sounds like a good idea...I'll have a think about what I could do...

I journelled my emotions

I used to journal regularly but haven't for ages. I think its partly because it takes up so much time because I just write and write and write...I'm rubbish at setting time limits on it and don't really have time to commit to lengthy in depth writing at the moment. But maybe I can try to think of quicker things to do like mind maps.

Tried to find emotions and link them to experiences with the ... difficult people in my life.

Mmm...something to think about, this...

I had an ingrained seemingly lifetime "habit" of not being here

Me too, I think. It's taken me ages to realise that.

What I have found I think is that any authentic connection, even when it looks and feels messy and horrible, does more than a lot of all the rest.

Reading this immediately made me think of my therapist...and that brings up very conflicted feelings...

Has your t taught you grounding and have your done much work on that?

Yes, we did stuff on that quite near the start. I had a grounding box which contained things like strong sweets, hand cream, perfume...I still take them in my bag every session but I can't remember the last time I actually got them out/used them. probably two years ago, at least. T is also good at checking I feel in my body...stamping my feet and rubbing my legs etc.
Is that the sort of stuff you mean??

How are you about emotions and having them?

I often find it hard to know if I'm actually experiencing a feeling, if that makes sense? Sometimes I'll think I'm feeling nothing...and after I'll realise that wasn't right. Sometimes I know I feel something but I find it hard to identify it.

Theoretically that is. I know the idea of them is... unappetising!

Ha!

Have you read Pete Walkers four f's?

I haven't read any of his books because I think I've always thought that Pete Walker isn't really for people like me...because my experiences haven't been bad enough. I read the four Fs on his website ages ago. Happy to have another read. What about it in particular are you thinking of in relation to what I've written? Anything specific or you just think it will be an interesting read for me?

I have to say that I think a part of it for me has been a lifetime of not discussing stuff. Not only the experiences (totally did not with them) but also any sort of discussion of my feelings and concerns with others.

Yes, same here. Last session, we were talking about my parents when I was growing up. In particular, we were talking about how my dad would sometimes ignore us all for days at a time. It would just be like we didn't exist. Neither of my parents ever talked about feelings. I don't think I've really realised there's any impact of that...but now starting to think maybe there is!

 

[grit]

What I am about to say may not work for you or anyone else but it worked for me and it can work for anyone else but it does require acknowledging we live in the Posttraumatic and we are also living in the Here and Now.

In situations like this where you are triggered into face to face of your deeply imbedded trauma, no matter what the therapist says or does or does not say or does not do, you are and your feelings are yours. Your interpretation is based on your past. You are experiencing a very high frustration which means at least two things:

You will blow up and feel unbearable (as you are now) in this trauma processing and may shut down or worse imbed the therapy process or leave the therapy.

Or

This high frustration will spill over and encourage to transform like a blind is taken off your eyes. We grow faster and stronger from adversity most of the time. And this could be it!

Both scenarios are possible. Many other scenario including keeping up the status quo are also possible.

What you need more than anything at this point is not so much to focus on the therapist and how to change him BUT how to cope with the frustration, so you can benefit from it maximum. You need to ask yourself what can I do to relief this pain? How do I cope in this high frustration, anxiety, depression etc?

These are my recommendations. Please take them with grain of salt and consider them as internet chatter if they do not apply to you or you do not agree with them.

Start to write with your non-dominant or normal hand and start with: when my therapist says this…..I feel this…

You need to use your god given cognition outside of therapy to assist you process what you could not as a child who was with less cognition. This functional part is part of you and it already helped you reach this far and nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with using your cognition, rationale, and brain to help you get you out of a double bind (you can look up what double bind in therapy).

The part that is coming here and typing this has the capacity to look the situation from far and say…OK I am triggered, the therapist is safe (because you determined this before) and I am really experiencing something very scary. Wow! I cannot believe this is probably how I felt then and no wonder I split or dissociated or went crazy …but today, I need my strong part to help me cope and get through this so I can come out of the other side and process it with my therapist.

You must acknowledge this is transference. It is not in the here and now conscious experience and your therapist is not out to get you. You are remembering exactly something you blocked off for a good reason.

Not acknowledging transferences is one of the many reasons we stay in the trauma filled space.

You also need to experience a moment of flow, so you can clearly see you are here, safe, and sound and able to admit, this is a full transference and you are pushing it further into a double bind, rather than into submission to the situation and admit that wow, I felt this as a child and survived, yes I am that strong!

But let us not get ahead of ourselves, just find a moment to acknowledge this is transference and re-experiencing of the feelings you shut off way back then. No wonder they are painful. They were then and they are still but you are here with us. You survived. You are strong!

The therapist cannot read your mind and see how truly scared you are or were of that experience but he sees you are here and strong and can re-feel and will survive again because you are not in it NOW!

If all this fails, imagine you are a child experiencing the kind of abuse you have and then try to help that child today. Imagine if that child is your niece or nephew. Make it as concrete as you can.

Only you have the power that made you survive that and make you be here today!

 

[barefoot]

What you need more than anything at this point is not so much to focus on the therapist and how to change him

I don’t think I’m looking for ways to change my therapist. More that I’m trying to understand how to shift from intellectualising and ‘talking about’ to processing in sessions and how that would look different.

Start to write with your non-dominant or normal hand and start with: when my therapist says this…..I feel this…

This is something I think I might try, to try to uncover what specific feelings are there.

You need to use your god given cognition outside of therapy to assist you process what you could not as a child

I think this is what I’ve veen trying to do all this time - think and intellectualise my way out of all this. It hasn’t worked. T thinks engaging emotionally is the next step, not just staying in my head and thinking, thinking, thinking...

to help you get you out of a double bind

Not sure I see how this is a double bind? I’m not getting mixed messages from my T?

You must acknowledge this is transference.

Transference towards my T?


I had a session yesterday. Frustrated with myself. I was unfocused and felt flat and disengaged, which is unusual for me in sessions. Discussion was light and not about anything in particular. Felt pretty pointless and a waste of time.

It was a shit session. Because I am shit.

 

[Friday]

You must acknowledge this is transference.

Not acknowledging transferences is one of the many reasons we stay in the trauma filled space.

1. What???

2. How is the difference between talk therapy & trauma processing in any way related to transference?

 

[grit]

@barefoot
I do not know you in real life but from reading your comments often here, the last thing I would ever say is you are shit. You are an amazing woman who is dealing with something from the past that is still alive organically and figuring out in abstract and in feelings that are being manifested in so many different forms and events in your body and your today's life.

You are doing the best that you can at this moment of life.

I see my comments about transference are throwing you and few others off balance so I thought I will elaborate a bit.


First this is not about intellectualizing your feelings BUT intellectualizing that the pain you are in needs a new way of coping. You are feeling pain and the only way an adult can soothe a pain is to soothe the self - something the human child learns very early on if they are in a safe, and healthy environment. You are in pain, you feel the pain, you acknowledge the feeling and you start to soothe self, or get support from others and/or after make sense out of the experience and move on to life and more pain and more joy as it is. This is a very simplified of human living. if you are confused, ask yourself, if your child has similar feeling, how would they soothe themselves? Do you know how? because you probably taught them. Then do that for yourself! This is not a trick. This is what you are learning in therapy but therapy is not direct. the process of therapy is you will talk until you figure it out. But if you are a parent (I cannot remember now if you were), but if you are a parent, how do you teach your child how to soothe? then do that yourself consciously - learn this because you were not taught! This is one of the beauty of being a parent. You can relearn many things we missed as children the second time around.

Now, you are in pain. You also acknowledge that you have PTSD (by the mere fact we are all here), you may also have other conditions so I am sorry if I am not covering your full life, I do not know you.

You are in pain. The pain you have is the reason you are in therapy. The therapist is not giving you the pain. You came in with the pain and by the way you are describing it is an old pain activated today. The therapy process is priming us to re-experience similar feelings we closed in the past because we were not in a safe space...so now we can let our belly out and breathe and feel and process and release!

A child being beaten or sexually being molested does not have the capacity to say, I will get over this one day. But an adult knows at least cognitively they may recover or they will grief or even think of those they love who are there for them etc.

All the anger, fear, terror, shame, hate, disgust, death feelings you had when you were being traumatized that you did not have time to process is stuck in your body and must be released. When you go to therapy, all those feelings are coming to the surface to be released. This is the pain you are experiencing. There are BTW people who go to therapy who do not experience extreme pain as most of us here do in therapy. Because their background was safe but there are events in the here and now that are not working for them so they visit therapy and no issue with attachment and just get the safe space and the support they need and boof go their merry ways. The world is not all PTSD. We are PTSD and trying to come back from the hell house and join humanity in the here and now!

What exactly are you striving for? What makes you wake up in the morning and make you say I want to see this when I am old? I hope it does not have anything to do with PTSD. You need to broaden out of your (and mine and most of us sufferers) of our tunnel vision of the PTSD.

For PTSD, what is not working is not so much here and now (though it could be of course if one is unfortunate to have hell relationships still) but most of us are PTSDed because the feelings in the past are not processed and hovering over us. But we are more than our feelings.

You are transferring those past feelings into today's body - your body and your moments in therapy.

No one can tell you what you feel unless they are inside of you and part of you...and that is not going to happen.

As I recommended, you can use your imagination first to deduce the feeling by thinking what feelings would I have as a child in that situation, if you think or arrive the right feeling, your body will respond. You will start to resonate and cry if you must or laugh or get scared all over again - if you hit the jackbot of mind and body responding at the same time. Then that feeling is right. and what you do it with it in terms of coping is something you can learn or ask your therapist to help you. If you stop your body resonating, then you are intellectualizing and you will get stuck where you started.

In my humble opinion, people get stuck in therapy for years and years because they dismiss or devalue their cognition/thinking part and think the body and the mind alone will work. Well let me tell you something. Everything must work in unison to be healthy. One area is not better than the other. We are here because one area is much more dominant than the other. In your case, your body memory is much stronger than your mind/brain because otherwise, you would know intellectually what you are feeling. You would have said, I should be feeling sad but I am not. Now you are confused about what you are feeling, which tells me the feeling is your in body and has not reached a level where you can use language (intellectualizing) to express. So you believe you are intellectualizing but actually you are not. You are in avoidance or have been in the past.

PTSD -especially in early childhood type is based on the body-mind, and it is much harder to bring it to the mind/cognition for processing and if you do, you are that much integrated.

Body, mind, brain, spirit and consciousness have to be all streamlined in one consciousness to be at basic health level. Where are you struggling?

My comments were to help you. Take what works for you if any, ignore the rest as gibberish.

Thank you for posting this. This type of postings and our different ways of looking at problems and solutions is good for all us to learn different things.

I truly appreciate you take the time to post this and respond to my comments.

PS. I can only write from my own tunnel vision way I am impacted my own PTSD so take this with grain of salt not as if god says so.

 

[NightSky]

I don’t think I’m looking for ways to change my therapist. More that I’m trying to understand how to shift from intellectualising and ‘talking about’ to processing in sessions and how that would look different.



This is something I think I might try, to try to uncover what specific feelings are there.



I think this is what I’ve veen trying to do all this time - think and intellectualise my way out of all this. It hasn’t worked. T thinks engaging emotionally is the next step, not just staying in my head and thinking, thinking, thinking...



Not sure I see how this is a double bind? I’m not getting mixed messages from my T?



Transference towards my T?


I had a session yesterday. Frustrated with myself. I was unfocused and felt flat and disengaged, which is unusual for me in sessions. Discussion was light and not about anything in particular. Felt pretty pointless and a waste of time.

It was a shit session. Because I am shit.

I HATE sessions like that. :( but it was only one session, and those happen to all of us (I would imagine) from time to time. You are not shit. You’re trying to find a new mode of operating in session so you have to leave some margin for error, some margin for you to operate in ways you don’t usually (flat and disengaged can be a defense against feeling, which can happen automatically if you’re wanting to process more emotionally but can’t). You’ll have a next session, and a session after that..
a lot of times when I have a session like that I have a bit of a symptom flare up. I don’t know why. Maybe it feels invaliding or like I’ve hit a dead end. Whatever frustration you’re feeling, write it down. Do you email your T? This will probably lead to a more productive session next time; it’s not wasted. Even if it feels like it is.

 

[Freida]

More that I’m trying to understand how to shift from intellectualising and ‘talking about’ to processing in sessions and how that would look different

I have been driving my T nuts with this for almost 5 years. Yep. Years! :laugh:
I finally had to promise to stop researching and trying to solve my own problem. It's kind of backwards, but trying to find an answer to my problem was the problem --if that makes sense? I wanted to find the reasons behind why I felt like I did because I thought I would understand it more if I saw facts.

I'm still struggling with it but I think that the answer comes in not asking "Why"? Take the "why do I feel this way" out of the picture and replace it with just "I feel" Then (so they say!) you will use your heart and not your brain.

 

[barefoot]

Thanks @NightSky - yes, you’re right, there will always be another session and I suppose the next one won’t necessarily go the same way...

The last few sessions I had felt so positive and purposeful and like I was turning a corner and getting somewhere...and then suddenly not.

It makes me think that, when I thought I was making progress and being purposeful, all that I was actually doing, really, was talking about it...let’s spend a few sessions talking about processing and then I’ll think I’m getting closer to actually processing...but now I don’t think I’m actually close at all. And that’s frustrating. All I seem to do is talk about talking about it. And what use is that?

I feel so pathetic. I’m such a wimp. The fact that I can’t seem to go near any feelings when actually nothing really terrible has ever happened to be is shameful. There were some things that weren’t ok. But nothing life threatening and nothing so terrible. That even those feelings are too much for me is embarrassing.

My therapist does allow emails but I try not to send things very often beyond basic logistical/scheduling stuff. I’m not seeing her this week.
I’m sure she wouldn’t mind if I emailed her. But I wouldn’t know what to say. Everything I could say just feels mortifying. Just the thought of getting in touch with her feels mortifying at the moment.

And it’s harder because I’m now freaking out about her...I’m spending ridiculous amounts of time and energy caught up in fantasies about arguing with her...I just wrote about it here Fantasies about falling out with my therapist
I think I sound nuts.

@Freida I’m wondering if your post relates to what I was just saying about getting caught up talking about talking about it? It feels like progress. But then I think am I being just as avoidant as before...because I’m still just talking about processing rather than processing?! Maybe I am overthinking and trying too hard? I just want to feel that I’m doing something right and getting somewhere after almost five years of this!