How do you stay within/expand your ‘window of tolerance’?

[ButterflyBean]

@barefoot, I’ve been meaning to reply to you, but I wanted to get my thoughts together. A couple things stand out to me:

And then I go into shutdown. I’m somewhat aware that I’m shutting down when it’s happening...

Give yourself some credit; somewhat is a start. Are you able to discuss what it feels like when you’re shutting down with your T? Or are you able to say something like, “Can we stop please? I can feel myself shutting down“. I imagine that it may be hard to do in the moment, so working on the first part may be a starting place that will take likely some time.

I’ve been seeing her for five years. Which I feel a bit ashamed of..I’m finding it quite excruciating sitting in the room with her at the moment.

Two things come to mind with the above:

1. Try not to over analyze the length of therapy. Everyone seeks therapy for different reasons, and the timeframe often corresponds with such reasons; however, long-term therapy is not uncommon especially when trauma is involved, which in my experience, is most of the time. It’s understandable that you feel shame regarding the length even though intellectually you know that progress is not linear. For example, when I can’t think in terms of goals, or working on something specific, therapy becomes more supportive in nature. To put things in perspective, I have been in therapy since I was 14, and I’m in my early 30s now. I’ve only had two therapists during that time, and I’ve been with my current T for about 12 years.
2. More importantly, I would strongly encourage you to tell your T that you are extremely uncomfortable being in the room with her. The results of doing so can be twofold; the conversation presents the opportunity to discuss your relationship, both good and difficult aspects. Also, even if you don’t know why being in the room is difficult at the moment, and you may or may not be up to exploring the reasons right now, sharing the information leaves the door for exploration open and allows your T to meet you where you are, which arguably, is the most important part of her job – being fully present in any given session, conveying empathy by listening and/or through silence, as well as holding space for your feelings to emerge, which is all part of combating the shame.

Please be gentle with yourself! I’m here if you want to talk/work through anything!

 

[FauxLiz]

@barefoot this is something that I am trying to work on and I recently picked up a book on this actual topic and have been trying to read it but it is difficult for me as the author is the same age and has many of the same trauma experiences as I do and as she uses these as examples it is hard for me but it might be worth looking at to see if it interests you. It is called "Widen the Window" by Elizabeth A. Stanley Ph.D Dead Link Removed

 

[barefoot]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I'm sorry it's taken me a while to respond. I read each of your posts as you posted them...I'm not sure why but this has been a difficult thread for me to return to to actually post again myself...

So...a big bunch of quotes and comments coming up...!

@Mee Thanks for your kind words.

Shame is often a source of problem I think?

Yes, I certainly think so. It's a big thing that's getting in the way a lot for me at the moment, I think.

I understand what you mean about why there should be any shame in going to therapy because why is it so different than a medical/dental appointment etc. I think part of it for me is that I still struggle a lot with thinking that my experiences have not been very bad. ie they haven't been bad enough to warrant a ptsd diagnosis/seeking help/spending thousands on therapy etc.When I first decided to go to therapy, I honestly thought I'd be going for three months. Six months, absolute tops. So, to be five years in and feeling stuck in this way at this point just feels...I don't know...disappointing? Pathetic?

it's okay you've been working on this for five years

Thanks @Wendell_R I appreciate the reassurance – even though I struggle a bit with letting myself feel that it's ok. Much easier to believe I'm being pathetic and not doing things well enough!

The first step is to notice what is and is not outside the window of tolerance. The second step is to adjust the therapy so that you can stay predictably within the window.

This makes sense. Maybe I can brainstorm some of the things that I think are inside and outside the window of tolerance currently. That might be quick! Inside: talking about work and building my business. Outside: Everything else! ;-)

So, maybe it's too much to open up all the feelings about your mum. Maybe it's more within your tolerance to pick one memory to briefly visit before talking about something else.

Yes, this is a good reminder...a bit like when my dissociation was worse and we were slowly slowly chipping away at it...I'd dip a toe in something, my head would start to go, my T would change the subject and I'd then get more present talking about that... It felt frustrating at the time that I couldn't manage more of the more 'important' stuff. But, in retrospect, I can appreciate that she was trying to keep me within my window of tolerance (even though that phrase has never come up with my T)

It happens because I don’t want to cry usually. So for me, working on allowing myself to be emotional in front of her is key. I can then say more, and not shut down.

This resonates strongly with me @NightSky
The determination not to cry seems to be stronger than everything else! And that is probably getting in the way a lot. It just feels so crucial that I stay composed. I don't know what I think will happen if I don't...I know nothing will actually happen. But staying composed - including not crying - seems to be an over ruling factor. Sometimes I do cry a tiny bit...in that I'll have leaky eyes for a few seconds...or my voice with crack or my lip will wobble...but almost as quickly as it starts, it stops.

How have you been able to let your guard down more and be more vulnerable with her? What does 'working on allowing yourself to be emotional in front of her' actually look like in reality? Not sure if these are questions you can really answer but I just feel desperate for some ideas - and probably for some hope. I just feel so lost.

Titration is to go at it at a snail pace. To talk or work on slivers of things and for a very little time, pendulation is to furst establish safety (safe place/grounded), then work on the trauma and immediately after go back to a safe topic/safe place, etc.

Thanks for this @Ireusa - I think I probably do need to go back to establishing safety/grounding. And I notice that, writing that, I feel quite frustrated with myself. Because I think, I've done that, I thought I'd got past that stuff... But I can also see that, just because we've done that stuff once, doesn't mean we're rubbish if we have to revisit it...especially during tough times.

My T says that’s why stability has to happen before working on trauma. To CREATE a window of tolerance to work within. Because if you’re unstable to begin with? There is no window, or there may have been, 3 miles back thattaway. Can’t maintain stability you don’t have to begin with

Yes, this is a good, clear reminder. I think for quite a while I've been thinking that I am very stable. Perhaps the fact is that, at the moment, I'm not actually stable enough. That's quite a painful thought. But probably an important one for me to think on more.

one thing that stuck out for me in your post is continues dissociation in therapy. It has been proven that it is almost impossible to heal when still experiencing dissociation and actually even hard to establish a healthy attachment to heal through

Yes, dissociation definitely gets in the way, majorly. After all, if you're not in the room, how can you engage with/work on anything at all? Dissociation has improved massively for me though - I hadn't dissociated for about two years until this summer. And even now it's back a bit, it's not back like it was a few years ago. Now when I am triggered or emotionally flooded, it's more likely that my voice 'just' gets hijacked rather than my head totally going too. I'm often still 'there' and can think things...I just can't express anything.

She says the way to build it is to just "sit with my feelings." Dont judge them, don't analyze them, dont explain them. Just sit and let them be. Feel them. Each time I do it the goal is to sit a little bit longer. Later, when I can stay regulated just feeling the emotions, we can talk about where they came from.

Yes, my T is a fan of 'sit with it' too! I think part of the difficulty I have with sitting with feelings is not so much that I'm analysing them or judging them...I've got a lot better at not doing that... It's more that, If it's a difficult feeling eg shame I just get flooded with the feeling and also usually then with panic and fear as well...so there is no longer any sense of sitting with it because the feeling has heightened so quickly that the intensity has just...short circuited my brain! Sort of! Not sure if that makes sense.

My window still isnt very big :(

Ah...well...I wish you all the best with your struggle too. I'm sure we will get there...!

Are you able to discuss what it feels like when you’re shutting down with your T? Or are you able to say something like, “Can we stop please? I can feel myself shutting down“.

No. It's usually a combination of intense shame and fear...even if I know in my head that I'm shutting down or getting stressed or overwhelmed, I just can't seem to articulate that. It's like there's a big freeze.

I'm able to discuss it in retrospect eg I could go in the next session and say, 'can w just talk a bit about last time because I did x and felt y and got really overwhelmed by z.' And those conversations are often really interesting and can also be helpful. But, in the moment? Nope.

I would strongly encourage you to tell your T that you are extremely uncomfortable being in the room with her.

I sort of did this in an email a couple of weeks ago after a fairly excruciating session where I got flooded and found it very hard to speak. I emailed her to say that I need to think about how I'm using my therapy sessions at the moment...because, if we're not talking about really practical stuff like work I'm getting very flooded....and that I don't feel great at the moment (I feel kind of semi-triggered most of the time) and that therapy is pretty stressful at the moment. So....I didn't directly say I'm uncomfortable in the room with her. But I did say that therapy is stressful.

She's ok about me using email like that – and I don't send those sorts of emails very often. And I know that she's not going to get into discussing any of that kind of content on email. So, it's just a place for me to put things or express what I hadn't been able to express in session until next time. So, when I went last week, I expected us to talk about what I'd written a bit. But neither of us mentioned it and we ended up talking about work all session. Which was useful, because I had a particular dilemma that we were able to talk through and I got some real clarity on it. So, it wasn't really stressful, I didn't feel super uncomfortable with her, I stayed present throughout...but it was also slightly unsatisfying because it felt like we had both avoided addressing the difficulties I had raised in my email.

I don't know if she didn't read the message, Or if she read it then forgot. Or if she was waiting to see if I mentioned it and was then following my lead when I didn't. Or if she was deliberately not talking about it and was focusing on work because I'd said that I can't seem to manage anything other than talking about work... I don't know...it could be any of these reasons...and plenty of other possibilities too! For my part, I was probably just being avoidant because bringing it up and saying it out loud would have given rise to more shame and panic. So, when she didn't mention it, it was easier to keep my mouth shut. Which in itself also feels shameful and pathetic - that, still, after all this time, I can't just go in there and say what I want to say.

 

[grit]

Hey @barefoot
I wish you all the best in your recovery. I honestly thing you are one of the most intuitive and deeply aware of your own body/mind so I wish you a well deserved recovery.

I want to share a little story with you and hope it gives you a glimpse of something to think about.
I did not consider myself dissociating for a long time but then a huge thing happened in my therapy...where I was back there and my body talking was infront of me talking and crying about deeply hurtful things that were done to me as a child. Absolutely I was unhinged but no panic, no impulsivety (other than evacuating deep and hateful feelings I did not know I had). I came back and the therapist face said it all that I was dissociated epic level.

That was few weeks ago. Since then, I have been journaling and truly challenging myself and fell into deep depression, insomnia, just general numbness which I call aftermath (like earthquake). But I always ask myself what do you need? What am I not giving you that would make you feel better and move forward?I am not making sense even to myself yet but the answer came to me that I kept up the dissociation for so long because it was (maybe still is but definitely I am in integration mode now) the only way I could attach to others. I did not let it go because that would mean I wont be able to attach to others. I did not ever learn how to attach without dissociation. It was like I died as a child and needed my mother like lifeline and since she was also my abuser, I flipped internally forever (until now) and could only attach when dissociated.
I saw myself coming apart toward my husband. I have been 100% dissociated with him all the time I have been with him....and not know it cause my dissociation was not abrupt as in therapy. it is like a way of being with others. I felt safe so I died beside him every single time. If he was abusive or a jerk or just generally a person I do not get along, I would have been deeper and deeper going in and would probably have a different personality. He just so happen to be a guy who goes with my moods and feelings steadly and never pokes me when I am completely just there beside him distracted. he pointed out here and there but that was me so I would be sorry babe was I not hearing you....

Well I am awake. and he is a different guy. I literally asked myself who is this guy? perhaps I am lucky perhaps this is something else.
But this to me would have never happened with a therapist simple because I am never relaxed in therapy room. I am lucky I have a safe relationship for so long where it took 6yrs to truly see my authentic face. I can feel and be logic at the same time (this was my window too tight so I would prefer the logic over the emotion cause my emotions are too hot)...it was struggle for me. Now I got hot emotions but 100% I feel they are information I can use logically so I feel them and try to understand rather than fleeing into the wall. and weirdly the hotness is getting so much smaller and even I started to laugh and realized my sense of humor was the best and most biting when I am very hot! a great defense perhaps!

I am so fully here it is freaking me out in the most delicious way. I cannot explain the feeling I have had for while now....

I hope you listen to your body. I hope you ask your body what she needs? I hope your therapist can help you come out of the hard wall. I feel it is hard wall.

Long response. I am sorry if it does not make sense. It is purely my subjective feeling and experience so it may not mean much to others. But I really want to share with you and I will pray for you over the holidays that you get a crack on it.

You have touched others on this site.

 

[NightSky]

This is going to sound silly, maybe. But one thing that helped me a LOT in learning to be more vulnerable emotionally was a series of podcasts I listened to. (And this is still a struggle. I just left a session where I said almost nothing because I didn’t want to cry. So it’s definitely a work in progress). But the podcast is called Other People’s Problems. The host is a woman I adore called Hillary McBride who is a genius in my opinion and a therapist. She recorded sessions with her clients. And the series follows some of those clients and their sessions as well as Hillary’s thoughts interspersed. And it helped me gain a bigger picture of what therapy can look like. That staying composed isn’t helpful. That the therapist isn’t losing respect for me if I’m sad or cry. It was so helpful to binge listen to all of the episodes (but it’s intense and can definitely be triggering as well). But it felt to me like permission to make space for who I am and how i am and stop trying so hard to be the “good” client.

 

[Rumors]

I’m finding that I’m getting very emotionally flooded very quickly in sessions. And then I go into shutdown. I’m somewhat aware that I’m shutting down when it’s happening but don’t know what to do to either prevent it from happening in the first place or to get myself out of it in the moment.

I’ve come across the term ‘window of tolerance’ online and think this may be relevant to what I’m experiencing.

Has anyone’s therapist ever talked to them about it? And, if so, what did you gain from it/how did you use it etc?

Or does anyone have any thoughts about emotional flooding generally - whether you’ve learnt any tools to help avoid it/reduce it etc.

I just seem unable to speak about anything beyond super practical here and now things without getting totally overwhelmed at the moment.
Thanks

So I just started working on this sensorimotor therapy where movement unlocks that feeling. Read stuff from Pat Ogden and give it a try. It takes some practice though. My therapist thinks I go into that freeze mode and shutdown bc of trauma that isn't released. In order to release it you have to give it a pathway out.
I hope it gets easier. I walk the same story at times.... I am sorry. Sending you strength.

 

[Deanna]

This resonates strongly with me @NightSky
The determination not to cry seems to be stronger than everything else! And that is probably getting in the way a lot. It just feels so crucial that I stay composed. I don't know what I think will happen if I don't...I know nothing will actually happen. But staying composed - including not crying - seems to be an over ruling factor. Sometimes I do cry a tiny bit...in that I'll have leaky eyes for a few seconds...or my voice with crack or my lip will wobble...but almost as quickly as it starts, it stops.

I don't try to hide my emotions... But when I was unmedicated and not diagnosed.. My feelings were so shoved down in there.. I mourned my step mothers death in my sleep! This was 2 1/2 years after she died, BTW. Now, my emotions are just as deep and of-course I'm medicated and go to counceling ( and check in to psychiatrist).. But 2 1/2 years, nothing. I didn't even cry at her funeral

 

[barefoot]

Sorry, I forgot about this thread! Thanks for your responses.

@NightSky – thanks for the podcast recommendation. It sounds really fascinating!

@Rumors – I've seen some video clips of Pat Ogden talking about her work. I'll look up more stuff. I think the idea of trauma getting trapped/frozen in the body and needing to be released makes sense. I had reiki a few months ago for the first time – not the same thing, I realise, but I did get some sense of shift/release from that too.

@Deanna – I dreamt about my Mum most nights for a year. Think it was my psyche's way of processing her death/my grief when I was asleep because I wasn't doing it consciously while I was awake. I'm still dreaming about her quite a bit but not every night, which is a bit of a relief because that was so intense and exhausting.