How Much Advice Does Your Therapist Give?

[Leah123]

My therapist gave me a lot of advice in a rough couple sessions this week. Yesterday she said to me that "you made a pretty big mistake," and "if you try to control everything you're going to end up with 'an oil and water' relationship with your daughter like __________ (husband) has."

The "mistake" was that my daughter had an excess of deserts this week, because school's wrapping up- for example, on graduation night, the school served her two pieces of cake, ice cream and soda, the day before she came home with probably about one pound of candy, leftovers, then there was other ice cream, desert from gramma, cookies, punch, etc. So, I went along with all that, to a point, and then after the school week ended
I said to her in advance we were going to have a weekend without sweets to balance it out. Later, we went to an event and there were cupcakes- she knew what I'd said, but asked me if she could have one anyway- I told her not now, but she could take one home for later. There was other yummy food there she could have.

My daughter was tired and upset and she went on to have a HUGE tantrum. That was my concern, her acting out in a way that drew attention from everyone at the event.

I don't say no to all sweets- she has plenty. But we need balance. My therapist said she would have just given her the cupcake, and I said I get it, what's one more.

But I am riled up at how much advice she's giving and the fear tactic that if I'm controlling I'll lose my daugther-
the reality is that I let her have all those other deserts, it's not like I never let her have fun or have sweets- she definitely has plenty and obesity and diabetes are a real concern. My daughter is almost 11- not old enough to make all her food choices yet.

I guess... I can see how letting her have one more cupcake would have been easiest and then taking a junkfood break after that, but.... I keep getting stirred up about my therapist's handling this, I just feel so riled up like she doesn't get it and doesn't get what it is to be a mother trying to deal with managing limits and dealing with the fallout. I told her I could empathize with my daughter being upset- my therapist said she didn't want it to seem like it was just my daughter's fault and not mine- but she had a big fit, disproportionate, storming off from the party in tears, yelling disrespectuflly at her father, not thanking her hosts, not being helpful when I asked her to cleanup, etc. and I really felt that even if I made a 'mistake' by planning on no sweets before hand and then not changing my mind, that this isn't a workable way for her to act.

So riled up.

 

[Leah123]

So I am wondering, do your therapists give a lot of advice?
I am going back and forth.... I can see how if I was more... agile/flexible it would have been much easier, but... am I not allowed to ever be a little too strict sigh? I wasn't trying to hurt my daughter, I was taking care of her. I know it was unpleasant, but I don't regularly deny her sweets, it was just the end of a seriously indulgent week and it was affecting her sleep and she wasn't eating meals properly, etc.

I guess I thought the bigger issue was how my daughter reacted, trying to make that easier, but we got so caught up on that and some "major transference" my T later said she had in that session on another topic that I didn't get to what I wanted to get to.

 

[sun seeker]

I would definitely say your therapist is overstepping by being that critical. There are different ways to be a good parent, and the way you explain your choices says you thought things through and were doing what you felt was best. Someone else might have made different choices, and that's fine. A therapist is there (in part) to help you get clearer on who you are, not to turn you into a clone of themselves. A better way would have been for her to help you explore what it was about the situation that upset you. It wasn't up to her to criticize. It sounds like she would have made different choices in your place, which is fine, but it doesn't mean you have to do the same thing she would have done.

Is this the first time (which might just mean your therapist was having an off day, or something about the incident struck a chord in her) or do things like this happen often?

My therapist does give me advice to some degree, but it's advice meant to empower me, not to tell me how to live my life.

 

[scout86]

To answer your original question, about how much advice he gives, that depends. Most of the time, he seems to try to set things up so I figure it out myself. If that doesn't work (and it definitely doesn't always work) usually he lets it go and it will eventually come around again & I'll maybe pick up on his point the next time. Sometimes, in some situations, he's more direct than that. On one truly memorable occasion, when I'd gotten a serious of crazy emails from my mother, and had asked for his advice, I followed the advice, things kept going sideways (I was forwarding her emails to him as well as my proposed replies for his input) eventually he just point blank told me what to say, I said it, and it ended things. (I never could talk to my mother. About anything.) Anyway, it very much depends, but I'm at a point where I believe that the more direct he is the more he thinks it's important that I get the message NOW.

am I not allowed to ever be a little too strict?

Of course you are. That's one choice. But, like any choice, there are consequences. If you're asking "Am I not allowed to ever be a little too strict with no affect on my daughter and our relationship?" The answer to that might be "No", You can do what ever you want, you're the parent. She can handle it however she wants too. Some things work better than others. There's a difference between being a little too strict on rare occasions and doing it a lot too.

Is this really about cupcakes? I'm thinking it's not. I'm think that's one example of some kind of power struggle. I'm not much of an expert on raising children. I know, as they get older, they are supposed to want to become more independent and some friction over that is normal. But I also know that there has to be a balance and there can sometimes be issues operating in the background that can make the dynamic less healthy.

One of the things I value about my T is he doesn't operate from the premise that "the client is always right". The client is always someone he's going to support and encourage, but if he thinks I'm wrong, and I ask, he's going to tell me the truth as he sees it and give reasons. If I don't ask, and he thinks it's serious, he's STILL going to tell me. I really appreciate that. I feel like I make a lot of mistakes and the only way I can learn from them is to know what they are. Because I know he's willing to give negative feedback, I tend to think I can trust him when he gives positive feedback.

 

[Leah123]

This one was about cupcakes and I think that's what gets me, it had been sugar overload with consequences all week so I was dialing back on that. Yeah, I didn't think to say yes with the idea that there would be less temptations later, because we've been inundated with temptations for quite a while with school parties, family gatherings, other events, holidays, birthdays- so it's been intense sugar overload.

I wasn't trying to set up a power struggle at all, which is why we discussed it prior together, taking a break from sweets for the weekend, I wasn't expecting there to be cupcakes at this meeting/event. So I compromised by telling her to take it home for later and enjoy some of the other foods.

I guess it seemed arbitrary of me, but as it was not the norm- because we do let her have sweets in general, just try to do it in moderation, I hoped we could work on how to make those interactions go better, even if it is me being imperfect, because how she handled it really alienated the rest of the group.

 

[Leah123]

I would definitely say your therapist is overstepping by being that critical. There are different w...

Thank you. I can see how if I would have just 'threw my hands up' figuratively and went with it, she would have enjoyed the party more and we could have tabled the no sweets time... it's just.... I already had a plan in place and... I guess I think more on the linear spectrum as I just figured I'd stick with the plan. I do see how I could be more agile at times, and I've come a long way with that I think over the past few years, but it just didn't occur to me to budge on that one after all the prior desserts. Ugh. Sigh. :)

And I think the way my T approached it... I dunno... she really felt impassioned to make a point- for her to say my relationship could turn into a bad one.... jeeze.... I had said YES to dessert a zillion times prior that week, do I really need to be told how it will all go to hell because I might've been too strict, sigh.

P.S. To reply to your question... I think that it's a mix of my therapist giving more advice than I'd like at times and also this particular one striking a chord with her.

 

[Leah123]

I don't mean can I have carte blanche to be arbitrary and uncaring... just.... are the consequences of this episode really worth trying to fear me into the possibility of a relationship breakdown? I AM worried about relationships- I'm worried that if my daughter can't take a "no" said with no ill will in a little more gracious manner, that it's going to continue to negatively affect her relationships.

I do try to own my part in her difficulties, certainly I play a role and one of my main aims in therapy is to be her best mother possible. But neither I nor others will be perfect- if I said "no" at the wrong time.... I'm not trying to set her up for trouble, honestly I'm not, but if that happens... I want to get her a little more.... able to work with adversity.

 

[scout86]

because how she handled it really alienated the rest of the group.

How does your daughter feel about that? (I can imagine a variety of ways she might feel about it. Depending on how it seems to her, there might be a way to address her behavior, the consequences of her behavior, and things that might be done differently in the future. Maybe?)

My T says that "communication is what the hearer hears" rather than what the speaker means. So he suggests checking to make sure people heard what you wanted them to hear.

I would think for a second that you'd want to set up a power struggle. But that doesn't mean your daughter didn't take it that way.

My childhood was a lot different and I think kids are raised a lot differently now from when I was 11. When I was 11, I bought my own horse, with my own money, and then took care of him with little to no supervision or help, financial or otherwise. Starting the following summer, I'd take off with him in the morning and be gone all day alone, and no one even knew where I was. (Not real sure I'd do that with my own kid!) My point is I had a lot of control over my own life. No one managed what I did when I wasn't in the house. My mom (not a reasonable comparison I suppose, because she didn't particularly like me) didn't ask, monitor, or try to control what I ate at school. Her control over eating at the house was more along the lines of "you can't leave the table until you eat those vegetables." She won that round and, for what it's worth, I despise vegetables to this day. (Her idea of cooking vegetables was boiling them beyond recognition. That might have been a factor. LOL) But, as I remember "me" at 11, it would have bothered me if my mom was monitoring my food intake that closely. I would have assumed there was something wrong with me, I was somehow defective and unable to make my own choices. I also would have assumed, I think, that all the sweets I so much liked were pretty special. Another way someone could take that is, "I know this is going to drive mom right up the wall so I'm going as far overboard as I can because it's fun to push her buttons." (My brother probably would have done that. LOL) I'm sure there are a ton of other ways this could play out.

So, does your daughter have a weight problem? React especially bad to sugar? Is there a particular reason for this to be an issue, beyond that it's something you can have one of those mother/daughter clashes over?

You don't sound like a bad parent to me. And I don't think going along with your kid to make them happy and avoid conflict is a good idea and it doesn't do them any favors.

re the consequences of this episode really worth trying to fear me into the possibility of a relationship breakdown?

I don't know the answer to that, but it's a legitimate question, I think. And it might be worth asking your T. I don't know what your T is like at all or how she usually handles things. If mine said something like that (and I could imagine him doing that) I'd be pretty confident that he thought I was missing something big and the consequences, in his opinion, were worth making the point that way. He's human, he can be wrong. But near as I can tell that hasn't happened yet. :arghh;

We all DO have to learn how to take "No" for an answer. That's a valuable lesson. Any idea why she's having such a problem with it?

 

[Leah123]

My daughter does react badly to sugar in excess and that week took the cake, ha. She has sleeping trouble and I fear the sugar compounds it and she was not taking in healthier foods because she was so full from the sugar. I do worry about her blood sugar levels, my husband is prediabetic and I have a weight problem, and obesity and diabetes are an epidemic these days that I hope to help her dodge. As for her trouble saying no, my daughter has behavioral issues, ODD, some ADHD traits, etc.- we've worked hard with her and on ourselves and she's improved but there are still issues, so having trouble with nos isn't out of character. In addition to the sweets we allow, she has also been sneaking them at night, for example- so I do think this is a worthwhile concern versus one that's not really substantive.

 

[Lucycat]

Is this really about cupcakes? I'm thinking it's not. I'm think that's one example of some kind of power struggle.

I agree. Why was this cupcake more important than the sugar overload of the preceding week. How does the daughter understand that for one week sugar is fine and the next it is not - just because Mummy says so?

Because I know he's willing to give negative feedback, I tend to think I can trust him when he gives positive feedback.

I think this is so important. It is not a judgment, it is about seeing the consequences - the tantrum - and looking at alternative approaches and what might have helped if they had been tried. It is about learning and suggesting what resources my help if the situation arises again.

it had been sugar overload with consequences all week

She (the daughter) will not see the consequences from a week. She will just know that day after day she was allowed treats and now the rules have changed. A week is a long time at age 10, and she will not have been thinking about the months before that.

I would suggest you should have a frank discussion with your T, if you find her manner and feedback unacceptable. If you are not on the same page it will not work.

 

[Leah123]

I agree. Why was this cupcake more important than the sugar overload of the preceding week. How d...

No, it wasn't that this cupcake was more important, it was that we'd had a celebratory week full of sugar and needed to restore balance for her health and well being. I wasn't even thinking there would be cupcakes at this event, but I had felt that as the week drew to a close we needed to curb the intake, having made exceptions for all the special events at school and such. And it wasn't just because 'mummy had said so' but I am there to guide her and help make those decisions until she is ready for them, which is the goal- to get her to be ready- so I do need to be the one to say so at some point, or there will be problems.

It's not arbitrary in a negative sense for there to be times for more indulgences and times for less: on birthdays we have cake and ice cream. We don't want to do that every day in perpetuity or we'll have health problems. It was the same with that week- as I mentioned, there were lots of events, and they were drawing to a close and my daughter was being affected by all the sugar and it was time to get back to normal. Or maybe apparently the time would have been a day later, ha, but we'd made the plan before those cupcakes appeared.

And yes, I did have a frank discussion with my T about the advice giving and what approach I thought would be more effective.

 

[Leah123]

I do appreciate the point about how controlled she'd feel at a party that I said no when she asked about the cupcakes, that I said to take one home. It was just a situation I wasn't prepared for and we'd already made a plan.