Other How to deal with an active shooter

[Muttly]

A couple weeks ago, before this latest shooting, I was working and opened up this storage area. Another coworker walked by. I joked that when I wanted to take a nap, that's where I'd hide. He replied that's where he'd hide if a gunman came into the store. I told him it was a terrible hiding place. It was very thin particle board and unlikely to stop a bullet. It's also at the front of an aisle, in the middle of the store, and likely to be sprayed by bullets. He was insistent that's where he'd hide. I don't really know what my point is, in sharing this, but people are interesting.

We had some training that covered a shooter scenario at my last job. After, one of the the security guys was in the office where my desk was. Again, it was at the front of the center, behind the desk and with no exit. He said, he'd always been concerned about the way we could get trapped in there. I didn't need to think and replied, I already had my route planned. I pointed to the specific window I'd go out. There was a coworker there too and she was amazed and said she'd never have thought about that.

The only military training I've had is by proxy. My dad was in the army and liked to "drill" my brother and I in various situations. I doubt I'd fight. My father and brother abused me regularly. My mom did verbal. As a young kid I got bullied. I did fight at time and over time, my brother was less inclined to abuse me because he knew he could get hurt in the process. The kids that were physically bullying me stopped all together and I got the reputation of being tough. But my go to reaction, was to hide. It worked often. If you hide, words can't get you. If you hide, you don't risk either having to fight or be a punching bag. I worry in a situation, that response would get triggered.

I do have a strong protective streak for others. Could I walk by victims on the ground like the article suggested? Who knows. Unless you've been very, very trained it's hard to know how you'd react. Maybe I'd just run past them but I know I'd want to help. I know I might hesitate. I know when I was in a fairly large earthquake and was told to leave the building, I was the last person out. I'd stopped because there was animals in cages and I was trying to decide if I could help any of them. They were fish and turtles and the water was sloshing out of the tanks but there wasn't much I could do. I left the turtles. They seemed to be in a safe location. Even if I didn't try to help someone, I might well hesitate

My dad, and later, my brother would pretend to be perps. They'd come at me. Sometimes from hiding places. Once, down at the beach in dark of night my brother stalked me. I didn't know it was him. Just that it was a flashlight following no matter where I went. I turned to head back to the campground so I'd have a better chance of having help if it was an attacker. The flashlight began to come at me running. I started running. And then the attacker laughed and I recognized my brother. He told me I did good until I fell. I told him when he laughed I knew it was him.

Hmm... I am rambling on. I don't know how much was my dad's (and later my brother's drilling) and how much is my PTSD (which probably includes that drilling) but I always have situational awareness. When I'm in a public seating area, I always try to sit where I can see the room and especially the door. I can usually tell you who is going to come in before they are in, because I'm watching the windows. I sit with m back to the wall if possible. This was long before mass shootings were a regular thing. When I ride in a plane or bus or train, I don't just know where the exit is, but how many seats until I get to the exit. And again, why am I saying all this? And is this a conversation I should even be having or is triggering?

 

[Gs172003]

I have a plan for every situation. Whether they work or not is another thing.

 

[littleoc]

@Zoogal If you could sick a tiger on a would be gunman. That'd do nicely.

Her...

The cool thing about this, is that a Tiger's roar can temporarily paralyze a human. :)

Sounds like BS, but it's been shown in numerous studies.

Tiger wouldn't have a hard time stopping bullets. It'd be nice to be a tiger.

 

[Stephernovas]

I doubt that.

Your pessimistic approach saddens me. But hey, you're allowed to have your own opinion.

 

[Neverthesame]

I realise that I forgot to say what I would do in such a situation.

First I'd get myself out of the line of fire.
I would then phone the emergency services line.
Providing them with information about how many people are mixed up in the mess, how many people you see obviously wounded. Where the sound of gunfire is relative to your position. How many shooters, ect, ect.
This is useful information that can help coordinate emergency services to best reach the wounded as quickly as possible. This is what saves lives.

If you have medical training and can get to any wounded Without exposing yourself to undo risk! Is actually helpful.
It can take as few as 3 minutes to bleed to death from a severed artery.
The simple application of pressure to the wound, could make the difference between life and death for that person. It's also something damn near anybody can do effectively.
No SAS Commando bullshit required. Which is good, because I'm not one.
It's best to stick to what I actually know how to do.
I'll leave the SAS Commando stuff, to the SAS. They're better at it than I am.

Situational awareness is vital to the first responder. Being aware of what is happening around you while trying to help someone else, can make all the difference.
Not becoming a casualty yourself is very important.
It's one of those real life black and white things that isn't a cognitive distortion. Either you are helping deal with the problem, or you're part of the problem.

I'm going try to keep this coherent as I have to dig into a part of my past I'd rather not think about.

Situational awareness. Put quite simply, is why I'm alive now. For better or worse, there is no denying that.

Another thing worth noting.
First aid courses.
Learning CPR is always good, but they also teach basic wound care. Situational awareness is also part of those courses.
Many large businesses actually offer employees access to these courses either free of charge or even as a paid shift.
The company I work for does this. They actually pay for us to spend two of the 5 day work week, sitting in a classroom. Every few years.
The only reason I get out of it every time it's offered is for ptsd reasons. Otherwise I'd be all for it.

Depending on your local area, courses can range from basic CPR to CPR with rescuer, pediatric CPR, ect, ect.

You know why CPR works?
It isn't like on TV. The odds of someone suddenly coming back to life is almost nil. What it does do is vital. It keeps oxygenated blood circulating through the body, slowing down the rate of cell death from lack of oxygen.
In other words, it buys time.

Being able to treat conditions such as pneumothorax (sucking chest wound). Easy to do, makes a huge difference in whether or not someone can breathe. Fairly common injury from being shot in the chest.

Basic triage. Figuring out who you can help, who is out of your ability to help and people who can wait until more help arrives.

Golden hour. The approximate time someone who has a serious injury that is stabilised has the best chance of survival. After the hour is up their odds strart dropping exponentially.

Having someone who can be (within reason of their own safety) on scene providing aid and information for emergency services, is a million times more valuable than a wannabe Rambo.
Alot less likely to end up on a coroner's slab next to all the other day's dead.

That's what I would do, were I in such a situation.

Uniformed EMS, are staged prior to entering a hostile scene. Police go in first.
That's not a complaint, it is good sense.
You know why Paramedics wear ballistic vests?
Because people shoot at them.

It takes time to secure the scene for EMS to start working. If you can buy even one victim that time needed, you have done real good. Do it while keeping yourself safe, you can go home to your family and know you did the right thing. Best part is, you won't have to kill anybody yourself.

This is how I would deal with an active shooter.

 

[Gs172003]

I realise that I forgot to say what I would do in such a situation.

First I'd get myself out of t...

That is one great thing about my job is we have a large number of people first aid and CPR certified

 

[asadafagahajakal]

I realise that I forgot to say what I would do in such a situation.

First I'd get myself out of t...

Actually if you sever an artery and you’re bleeding out, you can be unconscious in 2 seconds and dead in ten if you’re not lucky.

Everything else here is bang on. Especially about helping the injured if it doesn’t put you in undue risk or harm. Some first aiders forget that if you’re dealing with casualties in confined spaces or active shooters, that you wait until it’s safe to assist.

 

[Neverthesame]

@Notamorningperson Certainly.
I was just being more general in response to the original question.

Bullets cause alot more variety of injury than just severed arteries and pneumothorax.

I was being deliberately vague because I am not qualified to dispense medical training over the internet. ;)
I appreciate you pointing it out though.

I think that such severe bleeding would certainly fall into the "You can't help them, move on to the next" category of triage. Though it is something that would need to be assessed on scene.
It's good to note that a situation such as that is entirely possible in a mass shooting. It's possible you will come across people you simply can't help. It sucks, bad. But it is sadly, a possibility.

 

[zebbidee]

I was a couple of feet from a man with a gun who had just murdered someone in my local mall, and this is how it went: i was sitting on a bench and was startled by a loud bang and saw a woman fall. at first i thought she had been pushed into the store window and that the bang was the window smashing. almost instantly a clear distinct voice in my mind warned me "that was a gunshot!". it was like a subconscious voice. it got me to my feet just as I saw the shooter right in front of me, looking right at me as he was running past. I believe I froze but I don't remember. the next thing I remember I am standing next to the woman he had shot (his estranged wife). I must have gone to her on instinct to help, but found her dead - shot in the head, in front of her two kids. the shooter was tackled to the ground by security staff and caught.

its become clear that I then disassociated and the memory of what happened was completely stripped of any emotion - no fear, sadness, anxiety, horror, curiosity - nothing. the next thing I remember I am all the way out the front of the mall. I don't know how much time had passed, but there were already cops out there, so I told one that I had seen what happened, and asked if I needed to make a statement, and he said no. my mum picked me up (it was a scheduled pick-up so she had no idea what had happened) and i told her someone got killed. But I didn't say that I actually saw it happen. i've always thought that I did though. my mum remembers that i seemed 'fine' and for 30 years my parents had no idea of what I'd seen. there was no therapy, no real conversation about it, no comforting, nothing. i continued to work at my part time job in that same mall, directly across from where it happened without concern. i remembered what happened, I just had zero feelings about it. I had just turned 17, which I only just found out from newspaper articles. the trauma wasn't time-coded and I was never able to recall what year it happened. It was the start of my final year of high school.

it wasn't until 2016, when I found myself in situation where I was in close quarters with another murderer (in the course of my work), that I was 'triggered' and flooded with the vivid flashbacks and all the emotions that my brain had locked away. it was devastating and so confusing to me. this man in the present had also killed his wife in front of their children, believe it or not. what are the odds hey.

i'm just sharing this experience because if someone is shooting (even just one shot with a handgun - let alone a semi-automatic repeatedly firing), and your brain determines there's even a chance you are in the line of fire and could be killed 1. you never know how you will react physically (except perhaps for highly trained military/first responders etc. maybe?) 2. you never know how your brain will respond to it. great to have a plan but to expect kids to react or be impacted in predictable ways is unrealistic.

 

[zebbidee]

those terrible vegas shooting videos are a classic example of the freeze response...initially everyone just stands still listening and trying to work out what is going on. its so hard to watch in hindsight. just as that OP article suggests - we try to normalize and find a rational explanation for the noises at first - fireworks, car backfiring - and for me - a window smashing.

 

[LuckiLee]

My work is having a meeting on Monday for workplace violence and active shooters. WTH has this world come to? Be safe everyone!

 

[Friday]

WTH has this world come to...

Actually, I think it’s a really good sign.

Not so long ago, everyone in the workplace, or at least the vast majority, were combat vets. WWI & WWII bloodied entire generations.

Before that? Violence -in this country- was so common that it was to be expected. People dealt with it in the same practiced ways that modern people living in countries in conflict (or gangland) deal with violence... long practice.

That we actually have to have trainings on how to deal with an active shooter? That most people don’t know what to do, don’t know what they’d do? A sign of good lives & clean living, untouched by violence and death. That’s not a bad thing.

Reminded of Odysseus & his shovel. The gods told him, at the end of his travels, to take an oar... and keep walking inland until he met someone who didn’t know what it was, who mistook it for an odd kind of shovel. And there he was to stay. For he’d found a people who had never known the pain of the sea.