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Relationship How to deal with denial?

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Thank you for this thorough narc-splanation (feel free to use that one, too...)! Years ago, I dated a tried and true narc, and your description fits to a T. I spot those types from 10 miles away and against strong headwinds by now. My ex didn't ping that radar...

Because...enter stage left...the vulnerable narcissist. And that's where the mindf*ckery turns pro. Vulnerable narcissists--as opposed to grandiose narcs--tend to exhibit and feel loads of emotions. In fact, they're prone to depression and anxiety, can become quite clingy, moody, sad, even histrionic at times. There is none of the overt lying, (obvious) cold-heartedness, psychopathic staring, flashy entitlement, etc. as you'd see in someone of the grandiose type.

The key difference here, it seems, is that the environment mostly confirms the grandiose narc's inflated sense of self-importance, uniqueness, and entitlement, leading them to walk through the world as if their piss doesn't stink. Not so with the vulnerable narc. Their distorted self-image is most often questioned by society (maybe they're not as talented, pretty, smart, or successful as they believe they should be,) leading them to bouts of deep depression, triggered states, isolation, anger, anxiety, and so on.

The issue (amongst a billion others, of course,) is that they tend to have to work a lot harder to "get their supply," so they often appear quite sincere, empathetic, and agreeable. Their mask virtually never slips completely--they're too afraid of being found out--so they've perfected the whole manipulation dance, along with their sad pity party, poor me, "listen to my sad story as an excuse for my bad behavior and anger issues" tactics to elicit empathy and keep their victims hooked.

...and you can see where this is going. Because symptomatically, it can closely mirror BPD and, quelle surprise, PTSD (though to a much lesser degree, as there should be none of the gaslighting and crazy-making going on here.) When someone's depressed, isolating, angry, anxious, or hysterically crying in front of you, hitting themselves in the head, then screaming at you for something you didn't even say, then tell you it's a flashback...well, it's virtually impossible to say whether this person is seriously experiencing flashbacks, just got triggered because they thought you're leaving them or got too close or reminded them that they have no sense of self (BPD,) or you injured their fragile narcissistic framework somehow (narc narc narc.)

When they're isolating and "need space," it's impossible to tell if they're trying to calm their nervous system (PTSD,) are off in a self-righteous rage of push-pull (BPD,) or distance themselves to punish and manipulate your emotions while devaluing you in the process (narc narc narc.)

And to make this shitshow of a Cluster B party even more insane, all three can be present in one fun-filled package.

At the end of the day, I can't 100% be sure I was dealing with a narc. It's a bit like wearing different colored sunglasses. Depending on the shade, the whole thing can look either regrettable and heartbreaking (PTSD,) untenable and crazy-making (BPD,) or full-frontal psycho (narc.) All I know is that this wasn't "just" PTSD. And I wish I'd known that sooner.

I guess I'm going into this level of detail because I think it's important for all supporters to be clear on who and what they're dealing with and to be VERY mindful of what PTSD is and what it isn't; that just because it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it doesn't mean it's not actually feathered cyborg duck from planet narcopath. The main difference being: empathy is wildly misplaced when dealing with a narc or untreated BPD. Empathy is required when dealing with PTSD.


LOL, @Hojay on the narc-splanation reference, touche ;) and thanks for the reminder and detail on vulnerable narcness.

I think one of your keenest points is noting reasons for isolation as a tip off for who's who in the cluster B zoo. None of it's good or comfortable for those of us supporters, but there are truly differences in why if we're careful to note, and that matters as we must make difficult choices to stay or go.

I appreciate hearing the run down of how things unfolded with you and narcomaniac ex, and hopefully it reminds us all of the tripwires out there across the spectrum, and that while some folks are working to recover from genuine trauma, others are disturbed enough to use that sacred ground as a tool of deception.

Hugs to you girl!
 
My sympathies. He's none of your business yet of course he is. That's the rub.

I have a similar situation. We stuck it out. It was me it was never her and no, you couldn't mention it, no one did, ever.

So, since I was the one running to therapists and drugs and cPTSD symptoms and she was a caregiver a lot,

Who was I to open my mouth about her and her family?

You know though every week the therapist says "we're not talking about her."

It's really hard especially when one or both of you is getting mixed signals because of trauma filters. Everything can be a misunderstanding and you fight without knowing why. Like tilting at windmills.

So you have to look at you. You can't do anything about him (other people) and now and then I remember to apply that to my wife and I back off her a little.

I hope the fighting stops. If you can keep the conversation civil you have a chance. That's what we try and do. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't work.
 
Hate to hear it Mum, but that's why we're here; to give each other those aha moments, or huge big bada boom WTF! moments right?!

Hope you're feeling fortified too after whatever you've encountered :)

Thanks @WinterCricket. I am, very slowly (it feels) getting there.
The recovery process has been prolonged, in part, by the cluster B narcy type person in question being father to my many children, all, of which, take turns being badly mentally, emotionally, and, even, physically, damaged by their Dad's special brand of pathological behaviour.

He has very marked and pronounced traits of narcissistic personality disorder. A cross between the high flying and charismatic type and the "misunderstood", "maligned" and "excessively vulnerable" manipulatively victimy type that @Hojay describes.

The covertness of it all, I find REALLY challenging and difficult to deal with. Even after having left, nearly, 10 years ago, and having developed a truly loving and mutually supportive relationship, the impact and damaging nature of his disordered and pathological personality, on our children, hurts me, everyday.

Not to mention how he destroyed my chances and ability to step out in my own community, with any sense of safety, support and confidence (I suffer from and am subject to Aspergers/high functioning autism (see extreme sensitivities, neurological challenges and a super high IQ to compensate) as well as CPTSD, so getting over the SOCIAL damage as well as the neurological/endocrine damage, is a long, hard, painstakingly slow and dedicated slog, to make social/emotional headway in. Not to mention the economic toll.
I was a vulnerable, autistic, homeless, already traumatized and abused teenager (aged 16), he was a charismatic lead singer/songwriter(aged 34), with a band to boot. I didn't stand a chance. He honed in on it. The rest is history.
Thanks for caring and listening :-).
 
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