How to make actual friends

[Upside Down Eagle]

Maybe I don´t have a good middle ground.

To be honest I´m not sure anymore. Truth is I am very black and white - the reason my other two friendships ended, was because Friend A got into a relationship and told me he was too busy exploring himself in this new relationship and had no time to invest in friendships, not with me but not with his other friends either.

For me, that means: friendship over.

Friend B got a full-time job and she is somebody who takes very good care of herself, so if she has no energy she does not reach out, period. For context: she and I used to hang once every week, in busy times once every month. Now, it has been reduced to once in six months.

For me, that means: friendship over.

Not sure if I´m the ass here. To me a friendship is only a friendship if both parties need it equally. It´s just I don´t want to be involved in a relationship where I need the other person more than they need me. Again, this signals co-dependence to me and I´m very wary of it.

So wondering how much is a perceived rejection / inferring from something else, and how much is what people said to you directly

The way he phrased it is, he is too busy for a close friendship right NOW. He added that he might have time for a closer friendship later on, and that he does not exclude the possibility.

Meaning that in his view we are acquaintances and that means that he will be there for me if I ask for it. Emphasis being on the "if I ask for it" part. If I don´t, then there is very little contact.

I say good friends happen over time- trust an essential component, but I had to make an effort...feel a strong level of comfort, be positive- and not appear needy ( this can be hard)

That´s solid advice. The not appearing needy thing is the biggest stumbling block...

 

[Ronin]

A lot of people read it not as needy, but as in (profound) need, and depending their abilities, try meeting what of it they can.

So maybe that could be reframed into something that can deepen existing relations, and form solid new ones... with people of character, even... instead of a weakness to quick, shuffle away before it crosses anybody´s mind?

he is too busy for a close friendship right NOW.

Makes sense.
Well, IDK, to my way of thinking that does not eeentirely make sense (since I can be very close friends with people I see once or twice a decade... as commitment and trust are something else to me than how often you talk and see each other and what the shared interests), but I can intellectually see where time jumps in that reasoning.

(Which brings me to: Maybe sorting out what is whose idea of friendship may be good...? Different folks for different things.)

ETA: Reading (and expecting) different things in(to) friendships does not mean someone is not a friend enough, or not a true friend, or an ass out right. :) Just different needs, looking how to meet in the middle. If that does not work, does not yet make anyone an ass.

 

[TruthSeeker]

@Ronin- you make good points!

Understanding others perceptions of friendships...are important in the getting to know someone process.... and
being highly understanding about their life needs, time, schedule, expectations, and personal challenges is a huge part of making lasting friendships I believe.

Many people and acquaintances will come and go in our lives and good friends will be willing and able to invest the time in the relationship where they can when the time is right. Making lasting friendships requires a lot of patience, understanding, and give and take. Good luck!

 

[scout86]

For me, that means: friendship over.

What that might mean to someone else is that things are on hold.

One of my very best friends, is someone I went to school with. We went over 20 years without seeing each other more than once or twice, and then briefly. (Neither of us like to make phone calls & we're not big on chit chat. Probably part of the reason we're friends.) Then we ended up working together again and, by the end of the first day. our coworkers were saying, "HOW long has it been since you two saw each other???" Because things picked up right where they left off. It's not everyone's idea of a friendship, but we've literally each trusted the other with our life and we both know, if we need something, help is a phone call away. (Well, and probably a thousand mile drive, but still....)

You might want to think about your definition of "friendship". People vary in what they bring to a relationship and there can be lots of kinds of friends. I have a friend, for example, who I have called to haul a dying dog to the vet, during a blizzard, because I didn't have a working vehicle and she was right there. If I needed to schedule something for next week? It's not happening because her brain doesn't do scheduling that well. I know her strengths and weaknesses and I know what I can count on her for. She's a great friend.

To me a friendship is only a friendship if both parties need it equally.

That's something that can be flexible too. When I was in college, we had a rule. If we were going out for lunch, whoever had money paid the bill. Because usually one, or more of us DIDN'T have money and you wouldn't want to exclude someone just because of that. We didn't keep score. I'm quite sure it worked out pretty fair. If someone had abused the system, I suppose they'd have ceased to be a friend, but that didn't happen. I think the fact that we didn't keep score was important. And I know, for myself, "keeping score" is something I might try to do to make sure I'm pulling my weight, so I can justify my existence. It CAN be ok, but it can also be kind of pathological.

 

[EveHarrington]

To me a friendship is only a friendship if both parties need it equally. It´s just I don´t want to be involved in a relationship where I need the other person more than they need me. Again, this signals co-dependence to me and I´m very wary of it.

I think codependent starts with the word “need”.

My guy has said to me, as was said to him by some professional or another, that relationships, healthy relationships, are about wanting someone in your life, not needing them.

We need water. We need food. We need shelter. We need air.

These are things we need in order to survive.

If we get to a point where we need a particular relationship in order to survive, the point where you passed from a healthy to an unhealthy relationship is waaaaaaay far back in the rear view mirror.

The friend with the job that keeps her busy? She just doesn’t WANT her relationship with you enough to carve out time for you.

Because in the end, if someone wants you in their life, they will make time for you (of course crazy health issues like ours aside.....but even we can indeed make attempts even through the thick of it all), even if it’s just grabbing coffee every so often.

It can be hard finding friends who mesh with us well. I try to remember that most relationships will fail....and much of the time is nobody’s fault, it’s just that things don’t click for one reason or another.

It sucks when someone finds a new partner and you get ditched. This is especially problematic when finding friends of the opposite sex.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My opinion differs slightly. I believe people do need each other- people were born to move and live in groups of at least two. As a species we find safety, protection, likeness in culture, emotional connection and connection -and understanding in groups- whether it is a family or friends group. So many people here are asking how to build friendships- people were meant to be with other people because they see this is a need- like food, shelter, and other basics. If there were no one else on earth.....would you die? My answer- for me is very likely because w/o others to share with- what’s the point of living?

While with CPTSD/DNOS, I often find it safer to stay in my house, and go thru periods of seclusion for perceived safety reasons, assured of much less drama and fewer triggers, my house is predictable. The world and others are not so predictable and my house, a social barrier.
But my good friends-accept me-and this adds to safety and a sense of belonging- an issue- a huge one for me.

Being alone isn’t healthy, being w people in a safe place- usually feels better. Also being in large new groups for me can be quite terrifying-and my insiders create chaos. Sometimes I politely leave when this happens.

Being needy-to which you make a good point-is whole other topic which yes has lead me to quickly jumping into the familiar unhealthy relationships- proof- 2 x’s and walking away from most close family for survival reasons ( I didn’t pick them). The few relationships that have survived long term were those relationships that developed slowly- over time. And initially they just happened, I had no preconceived expectations- and wasn’t expecting failure a likely happening.

Being different, w parts is a challenge, but we can make good friends too, I think and find belonging outside our family.

 

[Ronin]

but we can make good friends too

(Not to derail, but topically): That just means they get more than *one* friend, when making the effort. :sneaky: Which brings me back to you points, of how that cooperation and needing each other, is not wrong, or pathological, on itself. The contrary.

 

[TruthSeeker]

(Not to derail, but topically): That just means they get more than *one* friend, when making the effort. :sneaky: Which brings me back to you points, of how that cooperation and needing each other, is not wrong, or pathological, on itself. The contrary.

I believe we don’t need a pile of friends to be socially healthy- one strong understanding relationship/friendship can be as good or better than lots of so so ones. It’s not quantity- but the quality that matters.

Yeah, I think sometimes needing human companionship/friends can be misconstrued with neediness-two very different things- the first alludes to healthy relationships/support. I think unhealthy neediness can be result in unhealthy relationships created out of loneliness and in haste. Good relationships take time. I believe all of us need healthy supportive friends. It’s part of being human and meeting our basic needs.

 

[EveHarrington]

My opinion differs slightly. I believe people do need each other- people were born to move and live in groups of at least two. As a species we find safety, protection, likeness in culture, emotional connection and connection -and understanding in groups- whether it is a family or friends group. So many people here are asking how to build friendships- people were meant to be with other people because they see this is a need- like food, shelter, and other basics. If there were no one else on earth.....would you die? My answer- for me is very likely because w/o others to share with- what’s the point of living?

While with CPTSD/DNOS, I often find it safer to stay in my house, and go thru periods of seclusion for perceived safety reasons, assured of much less drama and fewer triggers, my house is predictable. The world and others are not so predictable and my house, a social barrier.
But my good friends-accept me-and this adds to safety and a sense of belonging- an issue- a huge one for me.

Being alone isn’t healthy, being w people in a safe place- usually feels better. Also being in large new groups for me can be quite terrifying-and my insiders create chaos. Sometimes I politely leave when this happens.

Being needy-to which you make a good point-is whole other topic which yes has lead me to quickly jumping into the familiar unhealthy relationships- proof- 2 x’s and walking away from most close family for survival reasons ( I didn’t pick them). The few relationships that have survived long term were those relationships that developed slowly- over time. And initially they just happened, I had no preconceived expectations- and wasn’t expecting failure a likely happening.

Being different, w parts is a challenge, but we can make good friends too, I think and find belonging outside our family.

You misunderstand me.

My point is that if you get to the point of saying I need “Joe Smith” specifically then it’s dysfunctional. Yes, we need relationships in general, it’s when you say you must have one person in your life then that’s dysfunctional. It’s like saying “I will suffer if I don’t have this EXACT Twinkie” VS “I need food in general to survive”.

 

[TruthSeeker]

You misunderstand me.

My point is that if you get to the point of saying I need “Joe Smith” specifically then it’s dysfunctional. Yes, we need relationships in general, it’s when you say you must have one person in your life then that’s dysfunctional. It’s like saying “I will suffer if I don’t have this EXACT Twinkie” VS “I need food in general to survive”.

It's still not easy I have to be mindful and aware but I am getting there.

Eve said,
“I think codependent starts with the word “need”. We need water. We need food. We need shelter. We need air. These are things we need in order to survive.”

My point was just slightly different- add people who care to your list above and from my viewpoint, it is complete. We do need people in our life to survive healthily. We are creatures who need to communicate and be with others. That’s all.

Eve said, “If we get to a point where we need a particular relationship in order to survive, the point where you passed from a healthy to an unhealthy relationship is waaaaaaay far back in the rear view mirror.”

No disagreement here- so true!

“Eve H said, “I try to remember that most relationships will fail....and much of the time is nobody’s fault, it’s just that things don’t click for one reason or another. “

I don’t see relationships as having only two outcomes( fail or pass)- because each is so different, and fulfill different needs( a couple music friends, art friend, ( my inner children love them and these friends help w my internal balance), teacher friend-intellectual me needs good adult conversation and comradely, and friends to share spiritually, core values, understand boundaries- totally different part of self and different people. I see different friendships supporting different insiders needs and there is no “failure attached in socializing” if you are just wanting to be with others. Just the way I interpret it.

Eve: Do you really believe the word “fail is how you see relationships likely happening? Thinking likely inevitable failure, when trying to develop social relationships to me sounds black and white gloomy and could this way of thinking might possibly be setting you up unconsciously to fail socially?

Like they say, if you believe( likely social failure) you will succeed( outcome likely social failure). Maybe reframe it into a different way of thinking?

 

[grit]

I wonder (and I am sorry if this has come up before). What is friendship to you? Sometimes people confuse friendship, relationship, intimacy and other forms of community like acquaintances.
Just like when a person says I want a b/f or g/f , one may think hmmm really? You cannot just walk about and find one. You must invest a lot in you to offer something. Same goes for friendship.

You are open and expanding to people so your problem is not finding people but connecting with people. Your problem sounds to me,internet person, that you are asking for more than you can give.

You want deep connection but probably you are one of those people that run when others approach with deep connections as TMI! or too soon or wow! hold your horse there cowboy! but when you need that, you want that and when others run because it is too much, you make a great excuses so you are not recognizing you do not want connection.

You could go to those retreats and meet deep sharers and see how long that lasts. I find you will share and share and eventually the only thing you have in common is deep trauma sharing no fun.

My advice to you (again internet so take with grain of salt or toss it really) is this. Find something fun you are passionate about that has zero in common with trauma related. find that and throw yourself in there. become conscious ways you avoid deep with people. become even more conscious ways you are closing many doors already open because of this and that.

Accept you and you will be accepted. Avoid you and of course you are avoided.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Your problem sounds to me, Internet person, that you are asking for more than you can give.

Your logic sounds sound to me, other Internet person.

However, I do think I´m capable of maintaining deep relationships. I´ve had friendships that were genuine and in which there was mutual confiding, not just about traumatic experiences but also about anything at all. The problem arises when these people disappear for a while, for example if somebody is too busy to be a friend for say six months, then I feel that I need to move on.

I don´t do so well with the idea of being close friends and yet not seeing each other for years. Perhaps others can pull it off but personally I can´t. Regular friends, yes I can go without seeing them for years and I still see them as regular friends. But in a close friendship I look for actual physical proximity and sharing personal stuff on a relatively frequent basis.

You talked about focusing on yourself and developing a strong sense of self first, something to give, I agree with that. It´s a different post, but my whole thinking on "becoming less codependent" is about walking away from some people in order to find a strong core identity first, and then coming back hopefully more stable in myself - so I don´t have to lean on them.

If we get to a point where we need a particular relationship in order to survive, the point where you passed from a healthy to an unhealthy relationship is waaaaaaay far back in the rear view mirror.

This is what I mean, and I agree with Eve on all definitions here. Nothing against needing a friend, that´s all healthy, but when your world falls apart because you need them so much, then that´s bad. In my case codependency means my world falls apart if they´re not available, and it also means that I want WAY too much from them WAY too soon. Meaning that I want to take it all to Friendship Level 100 before even reaching Level 2. FUS RO DAH!