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Other Ideas About Stopping Bullying In Schools

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Draklight

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I've been thinking about this, I've read books and I want to know your ideas about how to stop bullying in schools, like a system of rules or programs to teach children.
I want to share a little bit about my knowledge, which is taken from books, and state that bullying has different reasons, as far as I understand, which are:
-the bully is caught inside a disfunctional system at home, where abuser-abused is the type of relationship he's used to (disfunctional means that it creates a person that is unable to function properly in society)
-children and teenagers are at a certain development stage, when they are even more instinctive and emotional than adults, these impulses being hard to control except when someone really shows them how and disciplines them. We are territorial and tribal in our nature, people outside what we perceive unconsciously as being our tribe are treated as lesser human beings or worse, as objects.
There were instances in our history, when prisoners of war were litterally hunted down and killed slowly by the whole tribe as a way of punishment of them and hardening the links between tribe members and really entrenching the idea that WE are a WHOLE and THEY are the enemy, us vs them.
-the ones being targeted (and this is a hard idea to swallow) were themselves either rude in behaviour, even bullying themselves (verbal bullying answered to with physical bullying) or really really different from the group, not as in being fat or tall or wearing glasses, but as in wearing different shades of antisocial.

What's your opinion?
 
I think its impossible to stop bullying, so beyond concepts already around to give focus and attention to the issue, I see no way you can literally stop #2 - children and teenagers at developmental stage, highly emotional.

That would be the equivalent of saying to a woman in menopause, just control those moods would you!

Like menopause, not all are as emotionally affected during those years, thus a minority become bullies. So for that minority who are emotionally affected, I see no way to literally stop the response. You only need put any stressor in front of the person, emotion takes over whether they want it or not. Not everything can be controlled.
 
There isn't even one best way to address bullying in schools, much less stop it.

As Anthony pointed out, there's no way to stop puberty, and those developmental milestones are necessary for kids to become functioning adults. It's like we could drug the Terrible2s away, but a toddler still needs to go through those cognitive & emotional milestones (my autistic cousin is a good example of what it looks like when one doesn't. He's nearing 40, but has the aspect of a 2yo.). But in addition to puberty, we'd also have to stop child abuse... And as much as I would love for that to be the case, it's almost a Canute size problem that makes bullying pale in comparison.

But back to addressing bullying. There are a lot of good ways, but none are perfect, and all have side effects and outliers. So no matter how good your system is, the outliers are going to fall through the cracks. Or create absurdities. Like the 5yo arrested for sexual harassment for kissing a classmate on the cheek. ((Heck, getting kindergartners to keep all their clothes on and not go running naked through the halls beating people with sticks is often a challenge! But now the kid whose parents say "I love you" and kiss them on the cheek all the time is copying that innocent behavior in the wrong environment and needs to be stopped before getting arrested? Oy vey. Absurdities.))

As far as I've seen (and sociology is only something I dabble in)... There are 2 main ways that bullying is dealt with effectively:
- Stand up for yourself
- No tolerance

Stand up for yourself... When taught as a concept, is extremely effective. It usually limits bullies to 1 or 2 per grade/school, and most kids feel safe, confident in their own ability to be able to take care of their own problems.

No tolerance... Is also extremely effective. It usually limits bullies to 1 or 2 per grade/school, and most kids feel safe, confidant in adults ability to take care of their problems.

Aaaaaaaand it pretty much switches every generation or two which concept is en vogue.

Because each has inherent problems.

So when the kids who grew up with one system come into power, they generally switch it over to the other system.
 
I believe anyone could and probably has bullied during that time.
Discipline and understanding of oneself and of the process itself would do wonders.
 
No tolerance... Is also extremely effective. It usually limits bullies to 1 or 2 per grade/school, and most kids feel safe, confidant in adults ability to take care of their problems.
I agree with this, but I think it really needs to start with educating the adults in schools about the long-term effects of bullying on the bullied and the bully.
I know that teachers are given in-services about bullying, but I also know how effective in-services are, and they do not go into the long-term effects. They need someone, like us, to give testimony to the teachers about how we suffer from bullying.
 
Bullying is a complex problem that has no easy solution and can have catastrophic results. I was bullied myself in high school almost to the point of suicide.

Having children learn to stand up for themselves is very important and being intolerant of bullying behaviour are both important parts of dealing with bullying. It is also important to determine what is driving the bully to behave that way and get intervention, otherwise the bully will often just change tactics. I have seen bullies who have physically bullied change to emotional tactics, then to cyber tactics when zero tolerance has been used without parental support and root cause determination. When this has happened, I have suggested police involvement.

I have found using restorative circle intervention in cases of conflict to work well. It teaches children that their actions have an impact and gives voice to the victim and gives the perpetrator the opportunity to make the situation right. Often the bully lacks the opportunity to see the impact and hear it from the view of the victim. I have had some really beautiful outcomes from this process that have resulted in deeper understanding of their actions. This is coupled with an expectation of a change in behaviour and consequences depending on the situation, as well as contact with the parents in certain cases.

The cycle of bullying can be broken and it is very complex, requiring a great deal of intervention from everyone involved.
 
No no, think bigger: dismantle mandated state education/babysitting, more rules and meddling will just create more problems, the structure itself is the problem. Stop forcing already stressed children (many from broken homes now but don't dare talk about that) into a badly outdated authoritarian pecking order, conveyor belt method of learning; its totally obsolete. That would clear up alot of unconscious tension and aggression-- no more food chain for kids. I think they act out alot of the stressed adults' crap and don't even know why; alot of factors in regards to child rearing need to be addressed but then that would undermine present societal structures and people don't want to go there. This bullying thing is absolutely insane, the school system IS the bully, the curdled environment sets up the entire conflict- victims and victimizers. You ask for this just sending your kids to these factories to be messed up

I can speak from my own experience- being the 'sensitive' one automatically draws you unwanted attention in these retarded places, your guaranteed conflicts, not only with bullies but also the school staff who will section you off into 'help' classes or something other insane thing (drugs? therapy? suspension?) and further cram into your head that there's something wrong with YOU, that you're not measuring up to THEIR standards, reinforcing yet more behavior the will further confirm in their eyes your flawed victim status, confirmed by the insecure parent who will obediently defer to authority. The cycle starts
 
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I'm very much with Jocko on this.

Do not conflate schools with "education"

For most of human existence, children of all ages and their mothers and other women have been together, dynamics of all ages, experiences have been there. Older children learned almost one to one how to help care for the younger and gained in experience and maturity. Younger children received encouragement, guidance and love. For examples of this working in the present day, with high levels of achievement - watch a few of Sugata Mitra's TED talks.

Sticking forty children into a day prison with one adult who claims the right to coerce them in all ways...

That is the Lord of the Flies and 1984 rolled into one.

As for the claims of "socialization" - sure - spending the years when your mind is most open to learning, being taught to sit on your arse and do mindless busywork, taught to accept and obey coercive authority and to neither think nor to question.

That model was imported from India to England in the 18th century; a model of the Brahmin caste, ensuring that the lower castes were taught not to think, and to be grateful for having the Brahmin there to rule over them, and make their decisions for them.

State school is day prison, the assumptions of both institutions are the same:

Optimistic: It supposedly prepares it's inmates for eventual release into society.

Utilitarian: It keeps the inmates off the streets and from causing trouble

Cynical: It provides jobs for political special interest groups, a fixed market for big pharma, and a ready source of vulnerable individuals for predators to abuse.
 
I think bullying CAN be stopped, but only if society really wants that, and they only give it lip service. Saying it cannot be stopped ensures it will continue. Every person must want that. Bullying cannot occur when teachers and other students are actively stopping it. I believe bullying happens because the non-bullies wanted it to happen. If others didn't HATE the victim so much as to not come to their aid, bullying could not occur.

Bullying should be disciplined strongly each time it occurs. ALL children need to be taught that all acts of bullying are shameful and are just another type of rape and violence. It takes the same mind as a rapist or other predator to be a bully. Like a rapist, every bully has the maladjusted need to control another person. If most people can go their entire lives without raping or killing, they can go without bullying. It needs to be drilled into society that it is wrong and unforgivable. Bullying others who do nothing to your first is always a choice.

Speaking of the rape analogy, that ties in with the prison analogy. Prison rape is a serious problem and under-reported. In the US, FBI agents have allegedly told prison wardens to make sure certain inmates get raped (usually protesters, political dissidents, activists). Wardens allegedly let inmates rape each other as a form of control. So I can't help but wonder if bullying is allowed as a way to keep a sort of twisted control at school. I wonder at times how many controlling type parents get on school boards. If other students than their own children do things they disapprove of, they get their children to set the non-conformists up to be bullied, and since their parents have clout, they get buy with it. So if a student or their family supports something unpopular, refuses to support a school fundraiser, cheers for the opposing sports team, etc., they get bullied.

I do have some extreme ideas on how to attempt to stop it, but I want to be careful and not get myself banned. It would be nice if a bullying gene could be located and an en-utero test for it created. Or a federal law making it a capital offense, though that is likely a really bad idea (some can argue that is state-sponsored bullying, plus due process would be a concern since bullies would falsely claim to be victims). So scratch that idea.

It should be iterated and ingrained into society that being a victim is no excuse. If a rape victim is not given a free pass to rape, a survivor of a murdered family member doesn't have a free pass to murder, a victim of arson has no free pass to burn down others homes and businesses, then a victim of abuse or bullying should not get any special consideration. PMS and menopause are not valid legal defenses. A person feeling p*ssed off or emasculated is not a defense for rape. Being fired unfairly is not a valid legal defense to bomb a workplace. It is hard for me to have true compassion on a victim who turns around and does what was done to them. If I didn't know better, I'd say that those who harm others because they were harmed enjoyed it, but on further examination, that does not seem to be true. It is hard for me to stay objective on this.

A mistake I see being made is creating targeted anti-bullying programs. I mean, it doesn't matter what the difference is, you don't bully them. I refuse to debate the morality of certain controversial personal issues, but I will say that creating an anti-bullying program for sexual orientation when many more are bullied over their weight, looks, religion, ethnicity, IQ, income level, etc. is short-sighted, unfair, and sends the wrong messages. And to be clear here, someone's orientation is nobody's business and it does nobody any good to bully anyone over that. If you don't like someone, ignore them and don't speak to them. Period. My point is that the dynamics of bullying are the same regardless of the target and it is best to take no bullying as a whole. Otherwise, some may bully new groups to stop the bullying of the old groups. If we focus on sexual orientation bullying only, it may create an atmosphere in which religious-based bullying or virginity-based bullying is acceptable. Targeted programs also send the message that some bullied groups are worth more than others. Really, there should just be an anti-bullying program without distinction as to the targets. The roots are the same: disrespect of others, nosiness, preoccupation with difference in others, lack of appreciation of diversity, and predisposing factors like abuse or trauma.
 
@Spotted Lady I enjoyed reading your response, and I agree that bullying can be stopped; if society truly wanted to stop it.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is such a think as a bully gene. I think it is a learned behavior, and as such can be an unlearned behavior.

I think when a child engages in bullying, then they should be put under discipline, and be taught not to bully, and I think the parents need to be brought in the discipline process, and they should be educated on the long term effect of bullying,

There has to be answers to this problem, and I also agree that we should not target any specific victim group for anti bullying campaign; I think any and all types of bullying should be targeted and taught as unacceptable behavior.
 
@RussH - I was being careful in my first post. I have to watch being judgmental at times. I really came here to this site to post about my own stuff. I am currently facing street harassment and it is a close cousin of bullying, though it is also related to sexual harassment.

It is possible that some are born bullies, but not completely due to a single gene. For instance, shamanic healing is discussed in other threads. When people are suffering, they will try nearly any port in a storm. They try legal drugs - with or without a prescription, illegal drugs, religion, the occult, etc. There are people who believe the occult and even reincarnation are real. Lets suppose for a moment they are. Then a bully could have did something really bad in another lifetime and a spiritual entity is bullying them, either by stalking, or taking them hostage. For instance, a family had a child that was very well behaved and obedient until age 4-5. Then he suddenly lied, fought, stole, destroyed things, etc. That's a bit too young to be that rebellious. A more distant family member thought that was a matter that was way beyond a discipline matter, and beyond any logical, earthly explanation and sought a shaman on his behalf. So the shaman was doing remote healing and discovered he had told a lie on someone in a past life that cost that other person their own life. Because of the lie, a mob ganged up on that person and killed them. Since then, that person's spirit decided to keep possessing the person each time they came back into a new body. The shaman convinced the spirit of the beating victim to forgive the boy and to continue on his own journey. At that moment, the boy was on a trip with his father, standing in the seat, shouting, being a brat, maybe throwing things out the window. Then he suddenly sat down and was rather quiet most of the trip. That night, he didn't resist going to bed when told. Others saw that he was suddenly starting to behave again. So entity possession could be one cause for bullying, though I guess an uncommon one.

But there may be some genetic predisposition. For instance, there is a "warrior gene" and possibly an "addiction gene." That somehow affects the body's reuptake of dopamine. So they keep less around than other people and thus seek to increase it with risky, violent, or addictive behaviors. Yet such a gene does not affect a person in a vacuum. There is no 1:1 correlation between having such genes and behavior. Often, the mothers smoked or used drugs during the pregnancy, and abuse, poverty, and abandonment are common themes. Take any factor by itself and the increase is likely not statistically noteworthy.

We can expand the rape comparison. There are said to be at least 3 main types of rapists. Probably the most common type is the angry/retaliatory rapist. They are probably the easiest of the 3 types to fight off, and probably the least likely to repeat it. They blow their stack and commit the crime.

Then the next most common rapist type would be the control/reassurance rapist. They tend to be more like predators, and they don't accept no for an answer. To them, rape is a competition and they never lose. They likely have a position of authority or prestige in the real world. A number of them put it off onto the victim ("you wanted it"), demand to know if the victim thinks they are "adequate," or they engage in "parenting" behaviors ("You might want to buy a bigger lock and get a dog so there won't be a next time"). In one sad case, a rapist of this sort was working for a rape crisis center, and he was also a sheriff's deputy or line officer. Thankfully, it was his law enforcement behaviors that leaked into his rapes that narrowed things down. Things like the way he held a flashlight, his shoes, giving "advice" to the victims, and a threat he made - "If you report this, I'll know and come after you." He didn't say he would find out, but that he'd know. So that implied he would see the reports, and generally only law-enforcement can do that. So cross-referencing a geographical analysis of the crime scenes against the homes of law-enforcement officers really narrowed things down. Then investigators focused on the ones who had problems or red flags within their profession, such as having been with several different agencies, having failed a psychiatric screening at some point, those who had problems taking orders and so on. That narrowed things more. Then maybe they did surveillance or something on whoever was left.

Then there is the 3rd type of rapist, the sexual sadist. This is the worst of all. They are likely mentally ill. Their motive is purely to inflict pain. They are true sadists, and other than killing them, there is likely no escape. Resisting and fighting turns them on, and submitting will only provoke them, and no matter what happens, they will likely make sure their victim is dead when they are done.

So I've wondered if there are 3 main types of bullies within that profile - the angry bully, the power bully, and the deeply disturbed bully. I imagine the treatment chances fall roughly into that order. If there were ways to give out coping skills and tools, it might be possible to eliminate the first type. Either keep them from becoming angry and bitter in the first place, or help reverse it as soon as possible. The second type would be harder to overcome, I imagine, particularly if they have parents and/or siblings with that personality affliction. Part of what makes it hard is that it often works and gives the person an edge at getting what they want. For the 3rd type, maybe earlier screening and intervention and more research into mental illness.

On the subject of anti-bullying programs, it seems the principles are really simple. One problem is that in terms of political correctness, some victims are seen as more worthy than others. For instance, gay-bashing is often seen as worse than harassing an obese person, and the heavy person is often blamed for what others do to them ("If you'd just lose 20-50 lbs...") or told that the bullying is there to help them. Another problem is the values needed to stop bullying may run counter to the goals of authority. For instance, what if society could be structured to where everyone interacted mainly with their own families and friends and only sought to broaden their circles in designated places? So everyone acts as insulated, rugged individualists to a degree and minds their own business. That is basically Conservatism, and the liberal/socialist/communist power structure has a problem with that, and I refuse to really get into politics here other than to say that truly stopping bullying or restructuring society to reduce it will meet political opposition. And the left-wing crowd in the US is waging a war on obesity and may feel stopping weight-based bullying would be a conflict of interest. I can't help but think there is a grand conspiracy to reduce the world's population, thus dumbing people down, getting them more sexually active in ways that don't produce offspring, promoting abortion, banning a lot of herbal and folk medications, modifying the food and taking land from farmers who use traditional farming methods, setting up ethnic violence while at the same time disarming responsible citizens, etc.

Even technology adds to the problem, and I don't mean just cyberbullying. The ability to communicate so freely almost creates an expectation for everyone to be approachable and open, and that is not compatible with every person. Then look at the number of sitcoms and movies where people smart off to others, humiliate and insult them, and how freely that can be done online and without consequences. So that gets carried into real life encounters.

I mentioned principles. That would include things like ignoring differences in others, realizing that other people's bodies and clothing choices are their own, realizing that everyone's sexuality is nobody's business except when it extends beyond acts between consenting adults (rape, sexual abuse of children/animals/incapacitated), everyone minding their own business, making a society that is conducive to an insular mindset, etc.

Then I wonder about tactics and policies. Like for instance, do sports have any place at all in public education? Why not just teach physical fitness and leave all competition out of it? If others want to be a part of organized sports, maybe that could be done by the local municipalities and done completely outside of any educational context. While I see the value of sports in that it promotes teamwork and leadership, improves health, and burns off aggression and energy, it also promotes bullying. Even the coaches and PE teachers often are adult bullies or are really people most don't want around their kids (but who hide it well). Of all the teacher types, these are the ones most likely to turn sour in terms of sexual misconduct. They often lack empathy or teach the wrong values. I wonder if sports organizations have an ethical role here too. For instance, the NFL was in the habit of giving more player suspension time for being found guilty of animal abuse than found guilty of domestic abuse. Participate in an animal fight involving dogs or roosters and get benched for a year, but slap your girlfriend around and sit out 3 games. But public pressure caused them to reevaluate that sort of thing. One thing that contributes to street bullying is excessive machismo (which could actually be male insecurity).
 
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