Infraction Discussion on Content

[A-RON]

I just wrote this, but it took me awhile, so it doesn't actually take into consideration Luthien's latest post. This was meant to go right after Nicolette's post.

Nicolette, I think the bottom line is that EVERYONE needs to respect EVERYONE ELSE on this forum. It doesn't matter who we are, where we come from, or what our views are. We all deserve respect.

Anthony makes some good points, and so does Luthien. And although this is Anthony's website, it's not about him. Shouldn't you all be grateful that you've discovered a high and noble purpose? This website is bigger than both of you. Sometimes you just have to be flexible in order to make things work.

As far as your last paragraph goes... I just don't think your assessment is fair at all regardless of who it's directed towards. If you are aware of the stated "underlying issues", than how can you possibly hold someone accountable without putting those issues into consideration? It is very difficult for me not to be offended unless you could further explain yourself.

And additionally (and this is important)... One of the rules is that we're not supposed to be argumentative. This entire thread is therefore breaking those rules because it starts out as an attack by mentioning the word "bullsh*t". I didn't say anything initially, but I do agree with Luthien on this. Didn't Anthony know that someone would speak out against him in this thread? Luthien's response was admittedly shocking, but this thread is provacative, and it basically guarantees that everyone on this forum is going to find out who is having a specific problem with infractions. That's none of our business.

Look, I don't know either of you. I have nothing against you and I have nothing against Anthony. I LOVE what you have to offer. I think what you provide is a WONDERFUL service. It's actually amazing, and I am so thankful that you've allowed me to be here. I also think both of you deserve a lot of recognition and praise, and I think everyone here needs to acknowledge that you two are real people, and that you both have your own feelings, and that you're not like an "automated response" that can be vomitted on whenever we feel like it.

The answer, then, is COMPROMISE. Why don't we all work on being a little more tolerant of each other, and let's have more patience. Let's work on this together. All of us. No one is perfect, but at least we can improve.

Aaron

P.S. Grama-Herc, I'm sorry if my last post was offensive to you. I didn't actually mean it to sound offensive. That "poop" could be replaced with anything, even a teddy bear. I just thought it would be a solution to take the edge off of things and make people feel less threatened. It was just an idea.

 

[Luthien]

I would like to change one of my opinions. After giving this some though, I think Mina's suggestion is a VERY good one. It is a compromise. A-RON's idea, while being cute and hilarious isn't really realistic for a forum on this type.

I can easily see that it isn't appropriate.

Mina's suggestion however is a small change, just to make the warning (some of which are very warranted) a little easier to swallow for us sensitive PTSD sufferers.
So please count my official solution as the one that Mina has proposed.

Another thing I would like to address now that I think of it, is that Nicolette seems to not have a very clear understanding of PTSD.

WE HAVE PTSD!!! We're here to work on it, self esteem issues included. If you're tired of our "way over the top reaction's" maybe you should take a break from the site, because we don't exactly have control over them...

How many times do you hear us on here hating ourselves, beating ourselves up, and just being so angry about this awful stupid thing that is wrong with us, and what it is doing to us??

Do you think we like being like this, that we choose it, or that we have any control over it?

If so, you just do not understand at all. Yes we have issues, we're the first to admit it. We can't stand all this shit that is going on inside us, and how our mind's and body's seem to have turned against us. WE HATE IT!

You sitting there, making it sound like trivial unnessesary behaviour, and speaking of it as though we have control of it is insulting to say the very least.

I just do not understand how you could sound so unknowledgable, and how you can say something like "we should get over it" We're trying, but it takes time and a lot of work. Work that includes support and positive reinforcment. I have really taken offense to your first post in this thread. :(

 

[cragger65]

OK, I gotta say it. I understand giving someone an infraction for inappropriate content, suicidal posting, etc. But for not capitalizing post titles!?! I always did so in my business emails, but I didn't feel it was my place to "make" other people do it. That's about as logical as saying, "I stir my coffee in a counter clockwise motion. If you deviate from this practice, which I'm forcing on you, you're not allowed in my house for coffee anymore."

I mean, I understand if it's "your thing", but to impose something so trite and meaningless on other people, to allow it to take precedence over the fragile state they are in and their need for support. PLEASE!!!

"I'm sorry you're suicidal, but you need to do up your shoelace... it's bugging me". Any idea how that comes across to someone who is desperate?

 

[Nicolette]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the discussion is the infraction system (people's reaction to the way it works) and not the actual rules within the infraction. As I understand it a lot of the current policies have been around for quite some time....it's just the infraction system is highlighting them more and more due to people's interpretation of them and reaction to the infraction/warning (which I think is the purpose of the system as sending PMs was not working).

Anthony is sitting beside me and he just confirmed that my assumption is what his intentions were...

 

[fin]

..... maybe instead of an "infraction" you could give the person a flaming piece of poop that can only be flung back by clicking a button that acknowledges that the person won't do it again. That way it's funny and puts people at ease, and it even gives them the chance to fling poop at you! .

PLease tell me this is a joke... I cannot believe that anyone on a PTSD support forum could think that flinging shit...oh sorry poop around could be funny.
Is it possible that the ramifications of writing something like this as a WELCOMING infraction warning, have not been understood.

If it could be mis-interpretted with what is already being sent out...what do you think the reaction to this could be?

 

[fin]

Mina, what you wrote is very polite and I do agree that it may soften the blow but I still truly believe that no matter how a post was written some members would still upset. I often try to explain in the warnings and infractions what the problem is, how to fix it and link them to the editorial policy. It doesn't happen 100% of the time but I do do it. I still have received nasty reactions to this. What people don't understand is we get attacked and abused by those saying we should be less harsh....quite the pot calling the kettle black.

Luthien, while some people have left the forum due to what you have written....well, isn't that their issue? I mean, we point out they are doing something wrong and their response is "F*$k you, I'm leaving as I don't need to put up with this". Come on....if it was your forum you are free to set the rules as you see fit. Attacking Anthony personally for his decisions only highlights that you take this personally which it really isnt.

If the forum's rules are too strict and harsh Luthien, why are there so many active members who cope without any of the issues you highlight? If you work for a company, they have their guidelines and standards, supermarkets have standards for food and hygiene including how things must be in straight lines on the shelf. I don't think this is about what the rules are....IMHO people with PTSD don't do well with any added stress, some have self esteem issues and others don't react well to being told how to act and that is the underlying issue. Generally, from what I have seen most people who have the issues with the rules here are the ones having a tough time in life in general. While I feel for those people, the rules are pitched to the average of the community.

Anthony and Nicolette:

I am wondering if you are getting more complaints and upset directed at you at the moment...And if so is it possible that someone is trying to "flame" you...trying to stir you up.

There is a mention of trolls and we already know about spam and stuff

But I am wondering if it is possible that someone is trying to get into the "workings" of the group and undermine it...undermine you.

I havent been here that long and am only thinking outloud but could it be a possibility...perhaps a retribution for being banned in the past...or just someone bored and looking to cause disruption somewhere.

It is just that if it is increased at the moment maybe it isnt distraught newcomers...

I dont know maybe this kind of thing is cyclical or something but I have tried to search for other similar threads regarding this and there dont seem to be many ...so maybe this is a new way of getting to the good work and support that this forum offers. Trying to wrap you up and take the work away from what is important...while upsetting you at the same time. If that is someones intentions they would be kind of having a field day at the moment....
it is only a thought but maybe?

~fin

 

[Deleted member 541]

Get a grip!!!!!!!!

I have been on break from the forum due to an anger issue that I am trying to deal with, without hurting anyone, or causing any trouble within the forum or in real life. So i am isolating completely. BUT upon reading this thread, I thought. "Oh shit why not add my 2 cents...."

There have been many times on this forum that I have felt that Anthony has a control issue, and OCD, among other things....Is he any different than anyone of us?????? NOPE!!!!! How many of us have OCD or tendencies of it??? How many have control issues???? WE ALL have issues.....BUT the bottom line is HOW YOU DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES.............. Jesus people get a grip.......Do I like the infraction system...NO!!!! I too think it silly, and totally unwarranted....But if everyone did what they wanted, it would be impossible to maintain the forum at the level that it functions at now.....

BUT!!!!!!!There are rules in life, EVERYWHERE you go. If you speed, you get a ticket...Do you go to court and whine, or tell the judge to **** off????? NO, you suck it up, pay your fine and call him names as you walk out of the court, OR you admitt that you are at fault, and make a point of NOT speeding and getting another ticket.

It's ALL about HOW you react to things, that will perdict HOW you will heal........and just HOW LONG it will take.......Think about this, really think about this.....He is asking that you conform to a rule, to keep things easy for everyone, to make things easier for everyone to read the threads, and to keep it pleasant to the population here. You either conform to the rules, or you get enough infractions that you will FINALLY learn. I have made it a priority to try and NOT get any infractions, but if I do, I will will try to learn from it.......

That said, I am now logging off to deal with my anger issue........

 

[Tinyflame]

I think for me the focus of this forum is "healing", and all it entails, including taking responsibility.

I didn't like getting an infraction when I was (very) distraught (let alone somewhat computer illiterate, lol), but more so because I thought "what does this mean? -Can I post ?, etc."

-Was good too in a way- snapped me out of my "circling thoughts" going nowhere but down.

All I know is that I have been hesitant to post this, but very much appreciate all the info/ posts/ threads/ work that has gone into and goes into this Forum from Anthony and Nicolette. I know that there are times I'm going to "disagree" (or not)- that's life.

It might be "just me" but have "perception" that focus is being pulled away from just addressing effective (not necessarily comfortable) ways/ methods to heal/ manage this PTSD.

I think of some post along the way (I'm sorry Anthony, -I can't remember where), where you said something along the lines of "being ready to once-and-for-all get this 'big splinter of ptsd out of (on's) 'arse' ".

That's how I feel. I want to get to the meat and potatoes and manage this thing -eradicate as much as possible, including emotions and reactions (from myself) I don't like.

Rules are necessary and just to be expected- anywhere.

 

[Tinyflame]

P.S- My "infraction" was not over "content" but posting to wrong 'category'. That to me was the biggest thing- it was still ok to express how I felt, -even if I felt "shitty", - and I thank you very much for that.

THAT, to me, was the important part.

 

[patrick]

Anthony and Nicolette,

I appreciate this forum more than I have the words to express. I know it is your forum, and know that you must devote countless hours to it. So far, the rules have not been an issue for me. I read them before my first post and thought they seemed reasonable for managing an operation as complex as this one has to be. There are obviously a lot of strong feelings around this whole issue. I hope you don't get to a point where you throw up your hands and say "F*ck it! I'm sick of this shit!" I'd hate to lose this place. Thank you both for your dedication and effort.

Pat

 

[fin]

I am with Patrick on this I would hate to think that something so good could be lost also.

I just dont think blaming PTSD is a good idea for getting it a little messed up.

When I first found this forum I was upset...like many others. The thing is I didnt post immediately, although I know some have. I waited and read...and to be honest I believe my PTSD was the reason for being hesitant and cautious. I was in no position to post while upset, because I was upset...and didnt attempt to. I cannot believe that I can be the only person to wait until I had myself a bit more together before posting.

To me, to post as the first instinct would seem unusual, you have no knowledge of those you are about to open up to...and to start a thread, well I wouldnt have known where to start, especially upset. And I would have wanted to know people a little better before just opening up...I mean we know the place is ok because we come here...but to do this on your very first visit...without reading anything else, that anyone has posted....seems to fly in the face of everything that PTSD has done to me. I am cautious and I need to know that I am somewhere safe before I start spilling my life out....

I would have felt some what like I had run into a room filled with strangers screaming my head off and wanting an immediate reaction...

I made the mistake within the thread title myself when I did first post a thread. But having read much before posting I knew that it was not a personal attack...

I may be standing out on a limb saying this...but to be able to get yourself together enough to be able to start a thread on your very first visit to this site is pretty awesome...and I dont think it is beyond the realms of imagination to expect that the faqs and forum policy's are read.

NOTE....
And to be able to post immediately here- without having been here before, at least enough to know the intent here is good. Well I would think it would mean that the person posting had visited a forum of some sort before and will have found that etiquette of some description is required.

I am not knocking those that have posted and started threads or anything immediately ...it is that when I came first upset (and that is what seems to be being given as a reason for people objecting to the infractions, the pTSD -I was too upset to know etc.)...well I really wouldn't have known where to start to be able to write a thread or post or anything...I needed to know that this was the right place and then I could begin. And just knowing I had found somewhere helped me to chill out and begin to read more and then I was able to post....nervously ...but I knew I was in the right place and among people that understood and I understood.

 

[fin]

hey....Luthien
(sorry PM full....need to figure saving and stuff and wanted to reply asap).

In answer to your question...

...I was responding to the fact that Anthony and Nicolette seem to be getting a lot more abusive PM's sent to them than usual about infractions and wording (dont know if this is the case just seemed to be from the tone of the thread). And I was thinking that maybe someone who was banned in the past or something like that.... was maybe trying to get to them maybe by "flaming" them....am sure I did write that.

I sincerely hope no offence was caused by my posts, I was trying to put another point of view across.

~fin

(hoping you are having a good day also Luthien...and thanks for the PM...please anytime you want- I just have to get better at saving and emptying it, sorry to reply in here...seemed to me to be urgent that I reply)