Invalidation: The Root Of All Evil?

[angel2write]

Thus, your core self is constantly changing with the whims of everyone around you whose opinions may alter on a daily basis.

Sure, it's relevant. The question for the abused child becomes not "who am I?" but "Who do you need me to be today?" And as an adult, the person feels lost, vacant, formless, without an abuser to tell them who to be and what to do.

 

[Philippa]

Thanks, Philippa, for all the kind words!

And, it's good to know it works. (Saying nice things about yourself). I may try incorporating this into my exercise routine. Positive affirmations until I feel like screaming.... then running really hard to work off the tension and anxiety! :D

Even just writing a list of ten things that you like about yourself, or things you are good at can really make a difference.

It's immensely challenging of course, but nothing worthwhile having comes easily, but it makes it all the sweeter when you can really start to feel the results and once you start thinking better about yourself, it's interesting how that spills out into the world and people around you start to see you in the same light...and vice versa. The thoughts we hold about ourselves are what we project into the world, and people pick up on that so it works both ways. If you think you are shit, then people will see that too. If you think you are kind, thoughtful, compassionate, amazing, fun, intelligent etc...then that's also what people will start to see in you.

I do think it's also important to be balanced about it, and to acknowledge our shadow sides as well, and do our best to find something good in that, regardless of how that aspect is perceived by others in society. Not sure if that is clear how I am writing it?

 

[Philippa]

Abuse f**ks up a child's ability to create for themselves their own view of the world and themselves on their own. Rather than having any foundation upon which to build their perception of themselves, they just have what they are told by others. Any attempt to individualize is destroyed. In my opinion it is more or less related to the structure of how a person forms their own complete self and personality. With normal children, they have a normal healthy sense of self and can supply their own interpretation of themselves about themselves, to themselves.

I suppose I was very lucky in that respect. Although I did receive some distorted and faulty messages via my parents, I think the abuse was not as extreme as many other peoples experiences, and I still managed to retain a sense of self, so I don't fully understand how it is for someone with such a loss of that integral sense of self can be...but I have in recent years had my own experience of that loss...it just wasn't in my childhood that I did experience that.

With abused children, they have no sense of self and they derive who they are from their environment. Thus, who they are changes with the people around them. Or, they can only allow certain information to stick, that is, information that is the most common and understood: They are wrong, bad, etc. People with good self esteem and sense of self don't go around saying "I'm good" as much as an abused person attributes everything they are and do with being "Bad", as a person with a good sense of self is generally aware that one isn't fundamentally good or bad, that all they can control is how they act.

Thankyou, for helping me to understand how this works better.

With abuse, you feel fundamentally flawed because that is what was told to you. You re-absorb information that meshes with that worldview and reject new, contradictory information because it is literally easier to be a bad person than it is to change your entire perception of yourself, your abuse, of the world, and of practically everything around you in terms of what is good and bad and everything in between. With being "good" comes the expectation that you will remain good, etc. This is generally because of core invalidation which occurs as a child before a child is able to create their own perception of themselves and their world.

Yep, internalizing those messages is where the poisoning really set sin because it is no longer a requirement for an abuser to continue since the child then takes over reinforcing those messages in their own psyche. It's so insidious how it works, once you can take a step back and really see it.

And as a result of that, it renders a person basically incapable of perceiving themselves on their own. They constantly look to the outside world for affirmation, for acceptance, and for validation. As a healthy kid, you would have learned how to validate yourself, affirm yourself, and accept yourself. Because you don't know how to do this, the only other option is substituting that with other people's opinions. Thus, your core self is constantly changing with the whims of everyone around you whose opinions may alter on a daily basis.

This has really helped me to understand why the need for external validation is so widespread in our world. I had breakthroughs in my late teens where I learnt how to look within and see the mechanisms of how our self-dialogue operates and how it really is central to our self-esteem, so I was fortunate in that way. I do think that it's possible for anyone to reparent themselves though, and really start to contradict those messages...but I do get that learning how to go about that is so challenging.

It's sort of how I have felt in recent years when it comes to learning how to trust my own judgement again, instead of relying so much on others. It doesn't come with an instruction manual, and half the time I feel like i'm crawling around in the dark just trying to work out how I'm ever supposed to get that sense of trust in myself back, so, in that way I can draw parallels with what you are saying.

And, it is what continues the cycle of abuse in terms of revictimization. An abuse victim understands abuse, and understands the views of themselves by an abuser, thus they consistently seek out abusive individuals because those individuals make sense in their distorted worldview and they themselves continue the cycle all on their own. I've rambled on, sorry. Sure none of this is even relevant. Anyway...

Yes, we all tend to go towards what is familiar to us...and abuse leaves a stamp on peoples psyches that many will start to associate 'Love" with, since that is all they have even known. It makes sense from the abused persons point of view too, when you really put yourself in their shoes.

 

[Kb3]

And as a result of that, it renders a person basically incapable of perceiving themselves on their own. They constantly look to the outside world for affirmation, for acceptance, and for validation. As a healthy kid, you would have learned how to validate yourself, affirm yourself, and accept yourself. Because you don't know how to do this, the only other option is substituting that with other people's opinions.

This is so true. I remember calling my father for advice between very stressful job interviews (which was truly an act of desperation!). I told him that I was nervous and didn't know what to say. His advice was to "be myself", to which I thought, who is that?

 

[simplekindofgirl]

There is so much on this thread that it is hard to focus on just one point.

Validation is by definition the confirmation. Too many people who do not have that validation often can not validate themselves which is what leads them to believe that they are anything less than what they actually are. Self denial is often just a symptom of our invalidation whether it be from our childhood, our adulthood, our trauma, or just society as a whole.

My son in all of his 14 years of wisdom told me recently "Mom, you do not have to worry about what people deny, or validate, or even what they might have to say about you. Just never let yourself say it about you." to which I thought, I will try...

 

[angel2write]

My son in all of his 14 years of wisdom told me recently "Mom, you do not have to worry about what people deny, or validate, or even what they might have to say about you. Just never let yourself say it about you." to which I thought, I will try...

I know this is true... and as long as I'm not doing anything mean or criminal there really is no "wrong" way to be... but I'm still scared I'm going to "do it wrong." I just constantly feel like I may be doing EVERYTHING wrong. And if I happen to relax for a while and let myself enjoy what's going on... as soon as the activity stops, I instantly freeze, convinced I have done/said something wrong and am about to be punished.

Went to church last night to help some of the ladies decorate for Christmas. I was looking forward to it until I got there. Dressed up a little. Got there, and was instantly frozen into the conviction that I was dressed all wrong, I was in the way, I was getting on everybody's nerves, no one wanted to talk to me, and no matter what I did... it was just wrong.

Why stop at second-guessing yourself if you can go for fourths? Or even fifths and sixths?

 

[Helliepig]

My son in all of his 14 years of wisdom told me recently "Mom, you do not have to worry about what people deny, or validate, or even what they might have to say about you. Just never let yourself say it about you." to which I thought, I will try...

Wow I like that.....

 

[Helliepig]

I guess there's a difference between believing in yourself/not allowing other's perceptions of you to hurt you, refusing to let yourself be invaidated by yourself or anyone.............and................ still being afraid of relationships because of their ability to hurt you.

I'm making progress with the former - facing my worse beliefs about myself and the process of healing the pain of that, and it does kind of stop it mattering quite so much what other people think - I am feeling more centered and less reactive. That feels good, BUT, in true PTSD style, the next issue now surfaces.

I am scared of relationships because of fears of my lack of worth to other people - I long since believed I have no worth to them - and because people seem dangerous/shallow/ likely to lose interest/become bored etc etc. I had thought that believing in myself was the key to feeling better about relationships, that the invalidation issues were the "big deal", but now it boils down to trust.

Not just trust, as in, "will you be honest with me?", but trust as in, "are you a stable person with wisdom and integrity, able to make and keep promises and love in a genuine way?"

Being brought up surrounded by flimsy, shut down, childlike, selfish, cruel people with no depth and decency beyond their own limited self-deceit and self righteousness, how am I supposed to spot someone real and kind and true? (much less convince them I am deserving of their love?)

Beneath my own invalidations and inner criticisms, there is genuine emptiness that feels to be as plain as day to everyone else. I now understand why I had to pretend all the time, because it is scary to sit and be me, as I have never had a mirror or approval of the real "me". From a tiny child it was never safe to just be. I had to be kind, funny, considerate, heroic, sensible, strong, selfless....etc etc etc etc etc.....constantly anything but me. I used to think me was really bad. Now I know it is just sad and lonely and not sure what to do.

Funnily enough as I am writing this I realise I am beginning to find that I am drawing internally more and more for my validation - listening to the internal signals that tell me if something is OK. .I think those internal signals were there before, but I misheard them and mislabelled them and mistook them for signs I was doing something wrong, rather than feeling something was wrong. Noone ever took the time to put me straight.

Now I have stopped attacking myself and invalidating myself, all that matters is that I am ok to, and with, myself, my behaviour, my choices......and I am starting to protect that fledgling me against all-comers.maybe with time as I get more used to this new relationship with me, I will dare to show myself to people and I can try a bit of trusting.....

a person with a good sense of self is generally aware that one isn't fundamentally good or bad, that all they can control is how they act.

quote]

 

[James B.]

Now I know it is just sad and lonely and not sure what to do.

Thanks so much for this, Helliepig.

 

[Helliepig]

((((James B.))))

 

[Stormy Eagle]

Absolutely!!! I have been just as, if not more, traumatized by my gaslighting mother than my physically and sexually sadistic father. I tried to reach out to people as a child and she told them I was lieing...then she said she didn't remember anything...then she said she had battered woman's syndrome...now she is starting to, not take responsibility exactly, but at least she has stopped gaslighting me. I am getting better.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Reading through this thread, I'm not sure I understand completely what invalidation is. I'm thinking it might be about knowing yourself or recognising what your personality is like or 'who you are'. Like some people can say they are a shy person or a fun person. I have no idea what kind of person I am. Is this invalidation?

If it is, then it feels that invalidation is sometimes better than validation. By that, I mean that I feel validated by how people treat me. If somebody seems to genuinely like how I'm being, then I'm being likable. If they are critisizing how I'm being, then I look at what I'm doing wrong. I can't remember ever having a sense of myself that was stronger than somebody elses view of me.

But I think life has taught me that very few people are genuine. People being attentive and loving are too often just trying to manipulate and control. Even when there is no abuse involved, it seems that friends only stay for as long as I am validating them. Everyone wants a victim who cries on their shoulder and thanks them for being there, but when a person is paranoid, anxious and acting crazy the same 'caring' person will turn their back and seek validation to justify doing so.

At the moment, I need something, because I don't know how to be in a friendship. I can't be a non-person, but I don't want to be a false person either. I've used the line 'I am my emotions and I am my actions' before, but I don't know that this is enough.

I'm sorry if I've rambled on here. I hope it will make sense.