Relationship Is This A Symptom Of Ptsd?

[Evolver]

Hi all! I'm brand new to this forum, and hoping to gain some insight. 5 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with "major depression and PTSD with OCD tendencies". She's been in therapy since then, and has changed a lot. It was a real struggle, but she's made vast improvements with her depression. I believe her PTSD comes from growing up with an emotionally abusive father, and from being raped in college.

I admit that I don't know much about PTSD. That's why I'm here. My wife and I have been together for 12 years and married for 7. We aren't making it to 8, as she shocked me by leaving in October of 2013. I've been seeing a therapist since then, as well as participating in another forum for divorce support.

One of the biggest issues we've had, is a very different perception of reality and events. She will twist events to make them seem like she was being insulted, attacked, or emotionally abused. It's hard to explain without giving some examples.

A very minor example is, I'm responsible for taking out the trash. Occasionally, something in the trash will get stinky long before that can is full. If I ask "do you smell trash?, she will interpret that as my being angry at her for not taking out the trash. This seems very minor, but she jumps to "he's angry at me" for tons of little things.

A more weighty example is when we we were both carrying some heavy band equipment from the car to a bar where she was playing. I was leading, she slipped and fell, and had trouble getting back up in her heels. I noticed, smiled, and held out my hand to help. She ignored my hand, and continued to struggle. Someone approached from behind, and began to lift her. I immediately dropped the gear, and took over lifting from the stranger.

She remembers being mortified by falling, me laughing at her and refusing to help her up. A stranger helped her up while I stood by laughing and not helping. She absolutely insists on her perception of events, brings it up constantly, and if I try to tell her my memory of the event, she thinks I'm manipulating and gas lighting her. There are LOTS of similar conflicts of perception... Probably many more than I'm even aware of.

These kinds of things built up so many resentments in her, that she's convinced herself that I hate her. She seems genuinely shocked that I was devastated by her leaving and asking for divorce.

My question is, is this kind of thing a PTSD symptom? Knowing isn't going to help me get my wife back, but the accusations she's thrown at me have me very confused... To the point where I sometimes question my own memories and sanity.

Thank you!

 

[Abstract]

Hi. Just going from what you share here and without hearing what she would say I would answer that it is probably very PTSD related. Many of us with PTSD have insight into the fact that we may see danger or harm where there isn't and be in the habit of checking in to see what is in the other persons mind first before deciding, but many others won't.

Therapy can bring understanding and awareness and make a huge difference but the person needs to put a lot of work into change.

I'm not sure if you yet understand the aspect of PTSD where trauma's are re-lived. That can happen in the form of flashbacks where all the senses and emotions are back in the event. It can also happen to various extents where we emotionally feel we are back in the trauma and yet all sensory information is normal. Lets say the trauma was someone shooting her. She could be going through routine things in life and yet emotionally feel like she is being shot or there is a threat of harm. Before someone realises that, they can assume that their feelings are about the present not the past. It is also possible that she has personality issues that don't allow her to separate what she thinks and what may be the truth from the other persons perspective.

It's very important that both parties in a relationship understand PTSD if one of them has it.

 

[dimplesg520]

Hi @Evolver,

When my guy first started therapy for his PTSD issues, he was having a lot of trouble with his anger management as well. Does your wife have those problems, too? I ask because his therapist gave him a packet called "How to Outthink Anger" that I read and explains a LOT about how my bf's mind works versus mine. I do not know if your wife's PTSD also comes with anger problems, or if her kind of thinking is similar (my bf has combat PTSD), but a lot of the things in the packet seem applicable to your situation, as well.

For example, they talk about projecting based on a process called mind-reading. The mind-reading aspect is that the person invents motives and makes assumptions about someone else's behavior, even if it is not correct, to explain why the other person did something. Like, if you say something to your wife that is hurtful to her, she may think "he doesn't really care about me", or "he wants to hurt me," as reasons for why you said what you did, even if those were not your intentions. They contribute to anger because they kind of twist around situations like you said, so it seems very offensive to that person even if that's not really what was happening. Projecting plays into that when the person assumes someone else feels the same way they do or sees things the way they do, instead of noticing that they are different. Such as, you ask if the trash smells, and instead of her thinking that you are asking to take the trash out, she assumes you are asking because you're mad at her for not taking it out herself.

They also talk about magnification, which you have probably heard of, where people with anger problems let their anger distort their thoughts so that everything seems worse than it really is, which sounds like what happened with the band equipment. All of this stuff is considered "distorted thinking" and leads to a perpetual cycle of distorted thinking. The author of the packet suggests "counterpunching", so that when your mind thinks something negative or angry, you correct the thought. Ie. If you don't kiss her in public, the automatic thought for her might be "he doesn't really love me". She would recognize that as a distorted thought, and counterpunch by asking herself if that is really the case, if there are examples to show that, or if in fact, you just don't like kissing in public. That's just an example, but you can fill it in with whatever you'd like.

As I said, I don't know if your wife has anger issues or not, but it seems like a lot of the concepts apply to her behaviors. I'm not a therapist and such, but after reading the packet, it really helped me to see the thought process my boyfriend goes through and to both be more helpful to him and more understanding. It seems like they are kind of at the mercy of their own thoughts, so when the situation gets misunderstood, I explain using the techniques and it helps him see it better because it's doing the counterpunching via conversation. If he says that I am trying to hurt him or I don't love him, I ask if he has other examples to show that is true, or if he is just upset and that is his first reaction. That way, even when they are struggling, you can still put the counterpunching into play and help steer the conversation into a more constructive place, getting past the blaming and instead to the root of the problem. Your wife was probably very embarrassed by falling, and that magnified the situation, and she saw you smiling and assumed you were making fun of/laughing at her (mind-reading), and assumed you didn't want to help her and would rather have a stranger help than you (projecting).

I don't really know if these are strictly anger or strictly PTSD symptoms.. It seems like a little bit of both to me, but since I am a supporter and not a sufferer I can't say for sure. Hopefully what I shared helps you a little bit like it helped me. They really are at the mercy of their PTSD symptoms/thoughts/triggers, which is very important to understand. It's not like she is sitting down and plotting against you, even though it may seem that way sometimes. This forum is a really great place to get advice or a different perspective on things you may not have thought of, so you're already on your way to gaining some insight.

 

[crazy8]

I'm sorry to hear about the pain that PTSD has caused you and your wife.

From your descriptions, your wife's symptoms of misinterpreting emotional abuse are nearly identical in nature to my symptoms with PTSD in my relationship with my boyfriend.

I can't see the truth, I constantly feel attacked and manipulated by him and constantly struggle with thoughts that he hates me, which of course is the exact opposite of how he really feels. 2 1/2 yrs together, and I didn't start getting these symptoms until I feel deeply in love with him.

I cannot be effective in a loving/romantic relationship because whenever I get close I feel emotionally vulnerable. In my past, emotional vulnerability equaled emotional a use. For some of us with PTSD, especially C-PTSD, our brains sometimes can't reconcile the possibility that love can exist without abuse....for me that is my everyday reality.

Best of luck, I think you'll find this forum very helpful and supportive.

 

[scout86]

My therapist likes to say that we all create our own "map of reality". He says (often) to remember that the map is a MAP, it's not "REALITY". Then he goes on to say that he thinks it's best if we continue to work on the map, to have it based on the most up to date and accurate information possible.

PTSD has a distorting effect on your map of reality. Maybe you can imagine looking at a map through a lens that magnifies some things (like potential "danger") while minimizing others. Then try to imagine operating through life with that map/lens set up. Then imagine that you don't know the lens exists. And maybe that you DO know. Even if you know, it's still tricky. Doesn't mean you can't get better at it and doesn't mean you can't work at getting rid of the distortions, but it's tricky.

I'm not sure the "mind reading" thing is unique to PTSD. I kind of think it's a human tendency. I'm aware of it (now!) and I notice it a LOT, even with presumably "normal" people. It's pretty easy to assume that everyone thinks like we do and to interpret the behavior of others in that light. I'm finding the best counter measure is to take the time to ask (nicely!) and then to listen to and attempt to understand the answer.

"What did you think I meant when I asked if you smelled trash?" "No, I didn't intend that as a criticism, I was literally wondering. I thought that maybe I DID smell it and was thinking maybe I should take it out now, rather than tomorrow, and I wanted to know what YOU thought." That kind of thing.

I imagine you could interpret that as "gas lighting" if you really wanted to, and there's a point where it just doesn't pay to keep trying too,

 

[Evolver]

It is also possible that she has personality issues that don't allow her to separate what she thinks and what may be the truth from the other persons perspective.

It's very important that both parties in a relationship understand PTSD if one of them has it.

The week after my wife told me she wanted to separate, I sought a therapist for myself. It was hard to get my wife to say anything about why she wanted to separate, but when she did, she threw a lot of accusations and resentments at me. Most were similar to the events I listed in my first post. She also insisted that I had issues, and needed to see a therapist. She wouldn't tell me what she thought those issues were. After my first session, the therapist, who is also a psychologist, suggested that my wife may suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). She gave me a book on it. I do see a lot of BPD traits in her, but she doesn't display the impulsivity that seems a basic requirement for BPD. When I asked my therapist if her behaviors might be more PTSD related, she seemed to think that PTSD was something only war veterans got, and was dismissive of the idea.

I know that one of my failures, was not putting enough effort into understanding her diagnoses. I was open to talking about them, but didn't want to push or pry, for fear of making things worse, or embarrassing her. Her ego is so fragile. I think that was a mistake. She was in counseling for 5 years. It never dawned on me, that I should have been too.

I cannot be effective in a loving/romantic relationship because whenever I get close I feel emotionally vulnerable. In my past, emotional vulnerability equaled emotional a use. For some of us with PTSD, especially C-PTSD, our brains sometimes can't reconcile the possibility that love can exist without abuse....for me that is my everyday reality.

I'd never heard of C-PTSD, but thanks to your post, I read up on it a bit. This does sound more fitting to me than BPD. I read that C-PTSD is not in the DSM, so maybe that's why my wife's diagnosis was simply PTSD. Thanks for mentioning that! My wife seems terrified of emotional vulnerability... or any vulnerability. Her tough-girl act often makes it very difficult to tell what she really needs. She complained that I don't express my love for her in public (holding hands, hugging, kissing, etc.), and yet when I try to do that, she seems uncomfortable with it, and often rejected my attempts. That's now one of her resentments. According to her, I would ignore her in public because I was embarrassed to be seen with her. Oy! How many times I've tried to correct that one! I actually had her on a bit of a pedestal, and felt she was out of my league! That's probably just as bad. :-/

They also talk about magnification, which you have probably heard of, where people with anger problems let their anger distort their thoughts so that everything seems worse than it really is, which sounds like what happened with the band equipment. All of this stuff is considered "distorted thinking" and leads to a perpetual cycle of distorted thinking. The author of the packet suggests "counterpunching", so that when your mind thinks something negative or angry, you correct the thought.

I'm so glad I posted here. When my wife would talk about her diagnoses, it was usually the depression. The PTSD was almost never mentioned. She's done so well managing the depression, that maybe the PTSD was a bit overlooked. Well, by me anyway. I'm embarrassed to say that most of my knowledge of PTSD, before recently, came from movies and TV. I thought it explained why she gets anxious when a door slams, or a pan get dropped. Maybe why she couldn't sleep well. I see now how deep it can run.

I've developed skills to defuse minor incidents, or when her distorted thinking involves other people. I've learned (too late) how it's possible to validate her emotions without necessarily agreeing to her perceptions. Unfortunately, It's much more difficult when the distorted perception involves me. I haven't figured out how to validate her feelings without becoming a doormat. I failed at that again, the last time I saw her.

It also kills me that I can't even suggest that PTSD might be distorting her perceptions of my motives and actions. Because of the resentments she's built up, I've got no credibility to her. Even mutual friends that have tried suggesting that her interpretation of events might be skewed, get shut down. She is absolutely convinced that her perceptions are accurate. I feel like, not only is our relationship a victim of this, but her future relationships will likely be also. I wish there were a way to get through to her. At least I'm slowly gaining a better understanding of the psychology that lead to this, and realizing that, while I do have my own issues to deal with, they aren't quite what she's been accusing me of.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Abstract]

he seemed to think that PTSD was something only war veterans got, and was dismissive of the idea.

Oh I hate this. This is someone who doesn't specialise in trauma. CPTSD or complex trauma involves PTSD plus certain personality tendencies that are not enough to fall under a personality disorder. It results from repeated long term trauma and is most common in those with childhood trauma. Trauma whilst they are attempting to develop.

Many people are incorrectly diagnosed as having BPD initially when they don't have it. Still others will have PTSD or CPTSD and BPD for example. People can have BPD and vary a lot in how they seem.

Her depression will simply be another side effect of the trauma and the PTSD.

I really hope she gets to see a good trauma specialist as that is what she needs. The mindreading habit is one that can destroy everything around the person - you are very right about that. I suspect you are also right that she isn't going to listen you about this.

The one thing that is worthwhile attempting is doing anything you can to influence her to see a trauma specialist if she isn't already seeing one. See if you can educate those around her - her friends and family. The more informed people are the better. There are some good books for loved ones and there is a good document on this site created by the owner.