Jaded With Twelve Step Recovery

[Ms Blue Sky]

Dear all, I just thought I'd share on here that I have lately come to the realisation that my twelve step groups were very much like one big cult...I was in three twelve step fellowships for the longest time but I suddenly became aware that my self worth and my self esteem was being eroded away insidiously and slowly

I think I really came to my senses when I was meant to be doing another fourth step " moral inventory " - I suddenly thought, I'm feeling like crap, I'm writing down all the stuff that is crap about myself, looking for my part in everything, even occasions I was bullied or abused and I started to think, where the hell is the therapy in this, I am just beating myself up with a huge stick, dwelling on my " shortcomings " and " defects of character " as they say, where is the kindness to yourself?

And time after time I would sit in the rooms brainwashed, coming up with things to share about myself, my failings and my neuroses with everybody in the room just so I'd feel like I fit in
And I thought I had a great social network in these programmes but that was just an illusion - I didn't - I never met up with these people outside of the meetings, or most of them, I just did outreach calls with them on the phone
I felt judged by other members if I was too happy or if I was too negative, I felt like nothing I ever said or did was right and then the final nail in the coffin, was a sponsor whom I elevated miles above me and put on a huge pedestal, she would ignore my messages and get back to me a week later and I was so grateful when she got back to me, I attributed all of my progress and success to her

Or I attributed anything good I ever accomplished to either the fellowship or to a Higher Power, of course I never gave any credit to me!

I was starting to feel like a failure and a loser, didn't realise how insidiously I was receiving the message every time I went to a meeting or spoke to my sponsor that I was saying how lousy and crap I was and how crap my life was. Let alone my sponsor reading an email I sent to somebody I liked and saying " that's embarrassing " about it

I am cutting off contact with other fellows, a lot of them had issues anyway and didn't treat me very well, being passive aggressive and stuff, I feel lonely but I will fill this gap with nicer friends and do things that make me feel good, I won't spend my time anymore sitting in a room thinking about how defective and crap I am, listening to people and thinking they're all so great, so much more knowledgable than me, while at the same time coming to believe more and more with each meeting that I am an underearning, love and sex addicted codependent and making this my identity!

I hope I won't cause too much offence or debate on this board, I am just quite angry right now, there are a lot of websites that confirm to me that these twelve step programmes are pretty much like a cult, I am angry that my self esteem was brought down so low by them and I was brainwashed and thought that they were the answer to everything and that I needed them, I so depended on them, I thought I'd get so sick if I ever left and wouldn't be able to cope, I felt weak, I also massively overanalysed and overthought everything I ever did

I know I still suffer from DID and I will explore this with a therapist, I do hope nobody is offended by this rant :)

Ms Blue Sky X

 

[Crow]

I'm right there with you! I have tried 12Step over and over. Different fellowships. Different behaviors. But always the same outcome. People seem upset or disappointed when things are going good and they disappear when I need support. SA helped me face up to my acting out behavior but once I could see it and work with it, the group was no longer necessary. And SIA I never understood how I could be responsible as a 3 or 4 year old for horrible things happening. OA seemed like a fat man's cult. The obsession is food but you can't be specific about the issues because it might trigger someone else. Not being specific was a major hindrance for me. EA is about as close as I got to getting support and the group being useful but they are kind of a hybrid here. No sponsorships. You go to another fellowship if you want to work the steps with a sponsor. And people come and go quickly so there's never that inner group cliqué that forms.

Anyway, good for you for claiming your power! You're an awesome being and time to take back what you've been giving away!

 

[Deleted member 28403]

Okay, this reminds me of some similar threads like that before. Exactly that stuff.

I don't know any of those twelve step thingys... We sorta don't have them here much, at least not enough for me to know of any single one of them.

But, for the content, I do understand what you mean. There are such toxic communities of people. It seems to me that it works in a sort of way that there is a constant amount of let's say "good feeling" and that simply one group of people feels worse, so other can feel better by putting them down... It's very bad in my opinion, but might be sorta working out for some masochistic people or people who simply throw away self care for the sake of whatever goal.

I am trying to live by kicking such people out of my life.

 

[ladee]

I have almost 35 yrs sober, and the first 10 were spent in 12 step rooms...I did see quite a few become 'clannish' more so than cult like. It was almost like there was not a life we could really live outside the rooms. My first time in therapy, I thought my sponsor was going to have a cow... her words.. 'if it's not between the pages of the Big Book, it doesn't matter'... hmmm, I had been moving away from the groups for a couple of years. Because NA was new in our area, I carried such a sponsor load it is a miracle I didn't get drunk behind it all...
I will give the 12 steps and the rooms, and some of the people, credit for helping me build a foundation for a sober life. But spending the rest of my life in the rooms like so many of them do.... not no, but hell no....
It is what I needed for a while... but when the depressions just kept getting worse and worse, I remember feeling a lot of shame that I as doing something wrong.... finally got a therapist that HEARD me about the depression... I had a brain chemical imbalance, I HAD PTSD !!! Finally diagnosed... and so grateful... I had an answer, and it wasn't' between the pages of the Big Book.. .
Am happy to hear you are going to try something different for yourself... The rooms are not for everyone... many ways to stay sober, and it be a quality life, but I feel those of us with PTSD, we are shamed and judged for not being able to 'get it right'.... so , with that part, I will agree. The words 'self pity' got hung on a lot of very normal and natural grieving, or simply being human and having a bad day....
So ya, it 's a great place to start, it does help to have other alcoholics to talk to. ect. But for the long haul... we need to get out of the rooms and live our life... no, I needed to do that. Does not apply to everyone. Grateful I had it when I needed it tho..

 

[StellaBlue]

@ladee - I would "like" your post twice if I could.

I think AA can help some people get sober and stay sober - and that's a really good thing. I have a friend who has been sober through AA for over 25 years. Fantastic. It wasn't for me...and I gave it the good ol' college try. I was in a SMART recovery group for a year or two and found that to be useful in that it gave me a grounding in CBT. But even with 12-steps or SMART recovery, I couldn't shake the depression and anxiety and my eating disorder got worse. It wasn't until I was diagnosed with PTSD (well, actually diagnosed and believed it), that I recognized the drinking (and the ED, depression, anxiety) were all symptoms of a problem that AA couldn't begin to touch. But I'm very lucky in that, while my drinking was a problem, I wasn't addicted in a physiological way. So for me, it wasn't so much about "getting sober", but rather figuring out alternative ways of coping with the uncomfortable feelings while addressing the underlying issue (which was trauma).

I do have a real problem with some of the other 12-step groups - mainly the ones geared towards abuse survivors. I am thankful I disliked AA so much that I never went to any of them - I can only imagine how shaming that would have been.

My other problem with AA (and again, that's my only real experience with 12-step groups), is it is so very dogmatic. I understand why it is and who it was originally intended to help, but I heard time and time again - this is the ONLY way, there is no "softer, gentler" way, and my favorite - "you just haven't hit bottom yet". And the combination of simultaneous self-depreciation / congratulatory stuff like "I had to go out and prove I was a drunk"...or..."my best thinking got me here"....or "my mind is a dangerous place and I should never go there alone"...erg... Plus the whole - you are powerless - but if you fail, it's your fault....double erg...

 

[Friday]

I had an MSW lic as a sponsor, so I lucked out in an incredibly major way. Not only what amounted to 4 hours of therapy/friendship a week, but there was no way in hell she pulled that BS about what my "part" was in victim blaming bullshit during 4th step stuff. Same token she was intimately acquainted with violence, so there was no f*cking way she even recommended I let some people know I was still breathing, much less cart my ass off to within their reach apologize to them. No matter how much I might owe them, including my life, there's just plain stupid. One better? She always sort of suspected I wasn't an addict/alcoholic but was self medicating trauma, instead. So when I wanted to try and teach myself moderation? She was completely on board for that experiment.

For me, that experiment went well. I'd had a few years completely sober at that point, and a whole new set of coping mechanisms very well in place, which undoubtedly made the difference. There are many people who both self medicate AND are addict/alcoholics in the classic sense. I just didn't happen to be one of them. I just had shit for coping mechanisms. Learned new ones, applied them until they were f*cking solid, and over the past 10 years have done both moderation, and occasional inpatient reeeeeally f*cking high on super addictive drugs and come off them just fine.

I'm not a fan of American-Abstinence programs, in general. For many reasons, not the least of which being that it's now used as a first line of defense BEFORE medicine & psychiatry. A f*ckload of people who are dealing with other or co-morbid issues plain and simple don't get them treated when the sole focus is on drugs and alcohol is not just the primary, but the sole outlook. To the point of well-intentioned idiots telling people with serious dual-diagnosis problems to get off their necessary medication <narrows eyes>. Nor the whole "I'd rather die than use," mentality. Um. Hello. A relapse can be recovered from. A suicide cannot. Let's get f*cking realistic here! :banghead:

Peer to Peer is invaluable, but there are soooooo many risks involved when that's a person' only source of help. Not the least of which is cult of personality, which is what happens in a lot of areas.

I had a professional. In a casual setting, but still someone who knew a helluva lot more than don't pick up, don't get loaded. Someone who knew & intimately understood the exceptionally narrow focus of 12step programs, pushed really hard for me not to laser in on that focus, and who was f*cking brilliant. AND I STILL left the program.

Am I grateful it's there? Absolutely. Is it something I need? Come to find, no. I learned a lot of very valuable things there, and I will always be grateful for that -and for her- but mostly what 12step stuff was for me was a big flashy distraction to avoid having to look at what my real problems were / aka Trauma :wtf:

 

[ladee]

A lot of paradoxes in the rooms.. and because my mind does not work on 'pragmatic', I was reading things my sponsor had no idea about... talk about some deep shame at reading that stuff and not telling her.. Later in therapy, my T and I laughed about the 'child being shamed', and it was ok... they were a group of people who knew how to stop drinking and I sure as hell didn't know how to do that... So I learned... then started adding what else was offered in the world to keep me sane so that drinking was not a solution
I think carrying my own beliefs and integrity into the rooms helped me.. I really took what I need and left the rest. That part is easy to do here too... all those years !!!
I'm glad this thread is here. This is not to say don't give the 12 Steps a chance.... but it doesn't have to be the end all to all our problems... but it is much easier to do this PTSD stuff being sober...
So, for all those in 12 steps, do what works for you... stay forever if it will keep you sober. But I needed more dimensions and more input into my chaotic world... My craziness remained... until I found T's that worked and tried things to broaden my tool chest for staying out of the rabbit hole... so here I am.. sober... and have had no desire to drink in many many years.... so there's that !!! Great thread.

 

[ladee]

Agree 100% about so many other things going on with Alcoholics that don't get addressed. I remember setting in a meeting watching a schizophrenic being shamed for being on meds.. I caused a lot of problems with this... I knew this guy HAD to be on meds... a lot of people got really angry with me, but who the hell cares !! The guy continued on his meds and is sober still today as far as I know..
It was sacrilege to have to be on meds... So when I saw my first P-doc and T and was put on antidepressants, I quit going, If I didn't know how to stay sober after 10 yrs I was f*cked anyway, or that 's how I looked at it..

 

[StellaBlue]

@Ms Blue Sky - I hope this conversation hasn't hijacked your thread. You didn't say what 12-step groups were in specifically, but I get the impression that they weren't AA. I think that trying to use a 12-step model on any kind of trauma (such as those 12-step group that are geared towards CSA or any kind of abuse) can be incredibly shaming and re-traumatizing. I think the same for ED.

@FridayJones - yes...self-medicating. AA only recognizes the drunk. Because it's 100 years old, there is no nuance, no understanding. When we're dealing with trauma, it's not as simple as the folks that Bob was trying to help.

@FridayJones and @ladee - let's have a drink (alcoholic or not) on my patio later this summer and chat :)

 

[EveHarrington]

I don't think this is an issue with just 12 step programs. I think it's a problem in many kinds of support groups. Misery loves company, right? Being cultish is how some of these groups rope people in.

 

[Ellabella44]

I tried AA once. Small room, 30 or more women, had been sober for a few months. Totally freaked out about the close quarters, ammount of people, and the fact that here I was SITTING IN AN AA MEETING!! Caps because It was the one place I never thought I would EVER end up. made it through the meeting but never went back.

nobody had ptsd. I felt like the most f'dup person in the room.

my program that worked was physically walking away from home to a local beach with no cash on me. I dont think programs are for everyone. Sometimes you have to use methods that are outside the usual way of dealing with things.

 

[Whyteferret]

That

Dear all, I just thought I'd share on here that I have lately come to the realisation that my twelv...

that was my experience as well. I already think I'm crap. I don't need to be told I'm powerless and a hopeless person. I do that on my own.

What helped me is "Smart Recovery." Google it. It's a lot more positive and more skills related