Relationship Lacking Accountability For Her Actions And Punishing Me

[nursenurse]

Diagnosticians we aren't, and I would caution everyone here regarding that. The focus needs to be on blue_eyes., and what can be done to help. The main thing we have established is that this is not the fault of the original poster, and I will go one step further to say that by delving into the minutiae of the behaviour may only serve to keep the poster stuck in a relationship that was drowning him. I understand that his understanding of what may be wrong is essential. But as non clinicians we have to be wary of wanting to stand on top of the hill proclaiming "A ha!! That is it!" Because in the end you will still have a man who is devastated and grieving over lost love.

I think that counselling for yourself, when you have a chance is your best bet. Look after you. Dissecting her mental status is a useful tool to help validate your feelings, but there comes a point where it becomes part of the merry go round and you forget to let go and start to heal yourself. All the advice here is good, but remember it is pure conjecture to be trying to diagnose anyone on these boards.

I hope and pray that you will find your peace.

 

[joeylittle]

She told me that I was going to make her completely cave if I didn't stop pushing her. I wasn't even pushing her...even though it really put my feelings completely on hold...I actually placed her needs ahead of mine by being patient and understanding. But low and behold, I get a horrific text message instead.

I just edited out your conditional language (it felt as though...stuff like that) - so you could see the progression as it relates only to you a bit more clearly. It is really great to read your ability to see how you haven't been doing anything to harm her. In fact, you have been putting her needs first.

No, no, no, a thousand times no, you are not the reason she is stressed. Is this PTSD alone? I really doubt it also. But (as @nursenurse wisely said), I don't think it matters anymore what else it is or is not. The behavior is consistent in its inconsistency, if that makes sense. She is showing no acknowledgement of her actions as they relate to and hurt you. I'm not trying to villify her -I'm only saying what has been happening in all the posts I've read of yours. So, whatever is going on with her, she's not committing to change or help herself.

And without that, who cares what her diagnosis is, honestly. I'll be a little overt for a moment. If you read a story about someone in a relationship with a person who physically harmed them all the time - hitting, punching, slapping, beating, etc. - and the person being hit was staying in the relationship because their partner, although incredibly dangerous, was diagnosed with PTSD, and maybe was missing a diagnosis of something else...but their partner was in therapy...so they just tried to be patient....and also, their partner told them all the time that the stress that made them shove their partner into the wall was, in fact, the partner's fault...but the violent one always came back with re-committing to the relationship...

I don't even know if she's ever physically abused you - but her words affect you just as strongly. And, like the example above, it's totally possible she actually doesn't know the extent of the damage she is doing. But that doesn't mean you are making her do it - it means she is blaming you for her own behavior because that is the way it looks to her. And until she has learned the skills it takes to be aware of how she affects you and invest in building a mutually respectful relationship - even one that is full of sparks, fine, but one where both parties know how to interact with one another in a healthy way - until she can do that, she is really just not capable of contributing anything to your relationship with her, even though you think getting her smile and her good moments is contribution enough.

It's not. It reminds me a little of a person who kneels in the desert with their mouth open to the sky, waiting for rain, while there's a well just on the other side of the sand dune. Even though it's true that water will sometimes fall from the sky, it's not a solid long-term solution to thirst. And if they would just keep walking, they would find a ready source of water not too far away.

I'm not meaning, honestly, to be critical of you, or demonize her. I just want to validate so hard that you are not the cause of her suffering. That belongs to other people, and herself. But you are suffering because of her. And we will do that, when we love somebody. But it sounds to me like this is beyond what we do for love. She is using you as a container for her destructive behavior. No-one should be abused in that way. And if you have that little voice in the back of your head that says "but I'm not really that great, and I maybe even deserve a relationship like this" - well, I just want to say to that little voice: shush. Because it's lying.

I don't know if we all get to have the relationships we want; but I know that we all are deserving of - even entitled to - relationships that feed us, not ones that starve us. And eventually it's only up to us, whether we keep starving or start walking around and seeing where else there might be food.

Something like that. My analogy-maker is busted this morning.;)

I'm sorry you can't get away. But, go ahead and look at the calendar, and figure out when you will be able to. There is always a way to make space for a get-away, and there's nothing wrong with delayed gratification. Make a plan so that you can stick to it. Get somewhere you can breathe. It's good you are busy with school - I hate to say study your feelings away, but sometimes being a work-o-holic can be helpful, if only as a very very potent distraction.

And no: none of this is caused by you. None of it. You are giving so much patience, and kindness, and tolerance, and love. My hope for you is you can continue down the road of seeing that, and admiring that about yourself, and realizing that you do, in fact, deserve a life where you are not being hurt all the time.

 

[nursenurse]

Great post, Joey.

 

[Chava]

So sorry you're going through this hell. I haven't been in this sort of close relationship but have worked closely (within feet, unfortunately) of a colleague who had similar behaviors. Never apologized for any destruction or conflict she pulled people into. A careful criticism or even trying to help someone that she believed could only be her friend or on her "side" was taken as bullying...and she takes this stuff to administration (didn't work with a boss change). Lots of people are "bullies". She's extremely divisive, manipulative, and she even goes out of her way to set people up and will willingly create a sort of small scale legal conflict if she can. Those who have had to work closely with her suspect borderline, but I know there is also some trauma stuff there. I had to figure out how to avoid her without looking like I was avoiding her...not easy...but had to sort of not engage her at all, positively or negatively. If you try to call her out on the disasters she creates, or even question her, she goes through a fairly predictable pattern of blaming others...and if that doesn't work she plays victim more deeply, and if that doesn't work she has a panic attack and shuts down. Colleagues have had to mend damage she's done to the department while she sits back and makes others fix the conflicts she created. Total bullshit.

She'd settle down for a while, then create another shit storm. Just consider this stuff might not change and, even if it is all mental illness and you have a good heart and want to sympathize for her, you do not deserve this treatment and she certainly won't get "better" by having others who let her trample them and allow her to blindly play victim all the time. I hope she gets appropriate help and that you also feel okay figuring out some boundaries for yourself.

 

[blue_eyes18]

Anarchy, you made an interesting point. You pointed out that those people can at least find peace in the knowledge that they are being wronged. I think that's what has plagued me for so long and kept me in this relationship. This guilt that I am to blame for the things that have happened and that my hurt and suffering is because of something I did. I have had no peace in my heart that I can sleep easy knowing this wasn't my fault. And that I was actually, in fact, being abused. Hearing it wasn't my fault and I'm not to blame has released so much inner turmoil and anguish for me. It's nice to hear from someone who has actually experienced this type of relationship. It's refreshing. And I'll definitely have to check out that link of natural law. I'm really interested and that sounds like something that is very applicable to what I need right now.

Nursenurse - very wise statement. It is very true that I certainly am in no place to diagnose and getting caught up in a diagnosis will only keep me thinking about her and not myself. And inevitably, keep me holding on. I am trying to let go. Alleviating some of that blame from myself is what is allowing me to finally let go and move on.

Joeylittle - "she's consistent in her inconsistency." Brilliant. So wise and so true. That's about the only thing she has ever been consistent with.

The analogy you gave about substituting out the emotional abuse with physical abuse put it into such a different perspective and truly helped me to see exactly what you're saying. Never in a million years would I get on board with a person blaming someone else for making them shove them into a wall. Of course it's not the person being shoved's fault. And how dare the person doing the shoving attempt to blame the other person for their outburst? Putting it in that perspective, I really see this completely differently. Thank you. With emotional abuse, it seems to blur those lines more and helping so see those lines much more clearly is very helpful.

Also, your analogy about kneeling and looking to the sky in the desert and ignoring the well actually really hit home. That's what I've been doing. I hold on, waiting for the tiniest bit of something; anything, to keep me going. I was getting nothing. Rather than just walking to the well and realizing in could get nourished there. It's brilliant. And so very true. I've been waiting in the desert for far too long.

You said: "you are not the cause of her suffering. That belongs to other people, and herself." I know that sounds so simple and so obvious, but that never, truly sank in until you just said it for some reason. There have been multiple times she has told me I'm going to make her cave and that she could take her life away, etc. and blamed me for her anxiety, and it never once occurred to me that I'm not responsible for it. Never. I don't know why. I think I'm going to frame that quote lol. The ironic thing about all of that is that the entire gist of her text was to tell me I need to take responsibility for my own emotions and feelings and just get over my feelings of hurt and sadness and she couldn't help me. That only I could control my own feelings. But she went on to tell me how I was making her want to throw herself off of a cliff and how she could easily end her life because I kept supposedly pushing. And how I was making her cave. Ironic in and of itself. But it never sank in that it's not my fault she feels a certain way and I didn't cause it.

Chava - thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you have to work in an environment like that. People like that are truly draining. Thing with my ex is that at her workplace, only her boss is the one who knows how truly volitile and destructive she is. She is so unbelievably good at hiding her toxicity from others, that she actually, on the surface, comes across as so sweet and almost naive. Probably something she intentionally mastered along the way. Only those who truly know her on a day to day basis, and share a close, personal relationship to her, truly know her true colors. Which makes it even harder because when you try to share the abuse with others, they just don't see it at all. All they see is this sweet, quite, shy girl, who couldn't possibly hurt a fly. They have no ides that she emotionally abuses the sh*t out of me behind closed doors. I met her at work years ago, and immediatly the breakups started happening. And everyone would be like "what did you do to upset that poor girl??" And I was like, "no, you don't understand. It was her NOT me..". But no one believed me. The only ones who truly know how she really behaves are me, her mother, her brother, and her boss (she switched jobs). She has everyone else completely fooled. It's shocking.

Thanks again, to everyone!!

 

[blue_eyes18]

For anyone who is interested, this is the conversation that ensued and her subsequent response to me after we got off the phone on Tuesday and she told me to call her on Thursday.

Me (Thursday night): I just tried calling. Give me a call back when you have the time.

Her: Hey sorry I'm eating with my mom real quick. I can't call tonight. I haven't slept and I still have a lot to do. The TA postponed the presentation meeting for tomorrow. I'm sorry. I hope you are ok and have been catching up in school.

Me: so when would be a good time for you? You are very important to me. And I truly am sorry that you are so stressed and haven't slept. You will get it all together, I promise. And you will do great. I know you are trying to organize your life and keep it all together. You are doing great. I'm proud of you. Hopefully we will talk soon. Please let me know.

Her (friday after not responding back to me on thur):"I can't talk anytime soon. I can't keep having the same talk. I can't keep hearing you break down. It's like I'm back in this relationship. You are a source of great distress (apparently me being hurt and breaking down over the ending of our relationship, is a source of great distress to her). Please try to figure out how to get over me on your own. I can't help you. I need to get over you myself. So please let go. I'm overwhelmed right now and I left the relationship for this main reason. So I'm sorry, but we can't talk until emotions are not an issue. I wish you all the happiness but you are making me want to throw myself off a cliff!! Sorry if that was harsh but I can't take this anymore. I need positivity, not someone who revolves their life around me. It's too much pressure. I won't block you again but I'll be damned if I get harassed and talked down to because you are angry with yourself (angry with myself? Harassing her??). I'm done taking shit from people (HER taking shit?? I feel completely trampled by her). I will do whatever I have to do for myself and you have NO right to tell me my decisions are wrong because they hurt your feelings (never ever said her feelings were wrong?). I'm not trying to be mean. I'm not mad. I don't hate you. I just can't support you. I can't fix your negative thinking, only you can (what????). Please, I need some space. From everyone. Between you, Azad (her boss, who is probably the second most patient man in the world with her, besides myself), and school, I swear, I'm going to cave!! So please, and I really mean please. If you've wanted to help me in the past, please listen to me. I need to focus on myself. I need to live. I need to survive. I know you know these aren't just words. To me, my life has never meant much and I can easily take it away. I am fighting to live, so please let me. Stop trying to pull me down (what???). Please be my friend or get out of my life. Because all you are doing now is making things worse for yourself and me. We don't have a future because you never have and never will understand me. Please don't argue with that. You don't (she baffles all hell out of me. Never denied that). You keep saying you don't understand me. Well honey, a lot of people do (those closest to her who truly know her, like me, her boss, her brother and her mother - she treats terribly. The people who don't really know her apparently is who she is referencing). That's how I know we aren't good. Anyways, hope you really take care of yourself. The power is in your hands. Good luck."

 

[nursenurse]

Let her go. You are delving into the minutiae yourself, and all it is going to do is split your head open. It will take time. Change your contact information, contact the counsellors at your university. You deserve better treatment...from yourself. It will get better. Really and truly.

 

[Chava]

Funny, this colleague is sweet and naïve, Mother Theresa like...it's a grand manipulation for tearing others down...those who don't like her, those who do better work...they are all bullies. In a longterm relationship with this girl you describe, what are the chances you'll end up in court or she'll go so far as to file a restraining order? Borderline types do crazy shit like this...projective all their mean thoughts and schemes onto others, creates conflicts others have be center of and feel the guilt and blame she will never accept for herself.

I think my mom might have been borderline. I have a very backwards attachment (non-attachment) to her. Anytime I felt sick or bad, it ended up I had to feel bad for her stress. She'd lash out at us, hit, scream, throw stuff, and it was all started by something like I wondered if I could have extra butter for potatoes...or something meaningless. I tip-toed around her, avoided a relationship, and when I needed her help, like my lungs were collapsing it became about her stress, of course. Lots of rages and terrorizing and mind games. You can't willingly stick around that sort of relationship. I ran away.

 

[blue_eyes18]

What you describe with your mother actually feels quite like what I experienced, chava. That if god forbid, you ever needed anything, you were made to feel that it was the end of the world and that you were seriously harming her in some type of way. If god forbid I ever needed something, like to talk about what's going on or my feelings, etc, it's me overwhelming her and making her want to commit suicide. And after a while, you become almost used to it. It becomes the norm and you actually forget that it's acceptable and okay for you to have needs, too. I had completely forgotten that it was okay for me to have needs. I haven't been allowed to need anything in two years.

You're right, I may have ended up in court. I'm such a calm natured person but there were a couple of times even I almost snapped. If I weren't such a calm natured person, I would have gone to jail. No doubt. Because when she called the guy she slept with to pick her up from my apartment when she was upset with me one night, I almost lost it. If I wasn't a calm person, I'd have probably brought a baseball bat to his car. Or worse, to him. No one is worth that. And as far as projection, you are absolutely right. They project all their awful traits onto you because they can't accept it themselves.

 

[blue_eyes18]

And nursenurse, you are right. I am diving into the minutiae. Ugh. Stop it, stop it, stop it! Lol. I'm getting there.

 

[Chava]

Sorry if you relate but it sort of helps me feel less insane if it something anyone else can relate to. And I don't know if it's like this for you, but longterm I eliminated almost all needs or any recognition of my own needs. I have also been drawn towards cold, bitchy people that I couldn't really have a relationship with. People who are calm, reassuring, caring, or interested in me as a person are confusing. I'm been somewhat drawn towards people I could help pacify. Feels normal. I've been told often that I'm good at taking perspective. Problem is I can understand anyone else better than myself because I've worked so hard at it, and realized I was totally lost quite often.

This has sort of shifted because I partly started recognizing it a few years ago and also have a therapist who is a calm and caring type (confusing but I realize this is better than me finding a sarcastic or hard-ass therapist). Not sure if you've ever noticed a connection between early relationships and more current ones, or what you were willing to go through with your ex. I'll always be drawn towards more intense personalities to some degree. But it's been really helpful to work on my "self" as a person, recognizing that self, trying out boundaries, etc. That's been really hard but important.

 

[blue_eyes18]

You have no idea how much I truly can relate to you, chava. I have pretty much eliminated all needs for myself. The only difference is that it was something you were raised with from an early age and I was only subjected to it as an adult. So I don't believe it's as engrained into me as it probably is for you, if that makes any sense. I can't imagine what you had to deal with, growing up with that and being unable to escape it. But at this point, it's still very engrained into me; that I shouldn't ask for anything from anyone.

You and I sound just the same, as far as being attracted to cold, bitchy people you couldn't have a relationship with. You have no idea how much I can relate to this. People who just simply want to love me and are available, I overlook completely. But the ones who I have to chase down and who make it damn near impossible are the ones I go after. I don't know why I do this, and like you, it's something I've recognized in recent years. I've started to learn that I am deserving of love and I don't have to fight someone for it. That I deserve to simply receive it without battling for it. I'm trying to stop feeling funny about those who simply just want to love me. That's truly what I want, deep down. So I don't know why I avoid them and chase the bad ones. Ugh.

It's awesome you've been able to change this pattern in yourself. I know it isn't easy. Thing is, I can't quite figure out where mine originated from. I wasn't raised by a mother who denied my needs or anything like that. Yet somehow, I find myself drawn to emotionally unavailable women. It's very bizarre. As far as my needs go, this past relationship was by far the worst as far as not having my needs met, though. I've never really had a partner deny my needs this drastically. This was a true first for me. I mean, I couldn't even have a bad day without her snapping on me and breaking up with me. If I ever got even the tiniest bit upset with her, the type of stuff normal couples experience every single day, and I expressed it to her, she FLIPPED out. It always ended up in a breakup. She could never just say she was sorry for upsetting me and move past it. It was the end of the world and breakup worthy. Then, next thing I know, I'm apologizing to HER for upsetting ME. It was incredible. So to avoid all of that, I just started holding it all in til I almost imploded. The alternative was to let it out and be dumped. So I chose to hold it in. It seemed the lesser of two evils. But in the long run, it certainly wasn't.

It's inspiring to hear that you've been able to start making some changes in the right direction for yourself. It gives me hope that I can overcome this, as well.