DogwoodTree
Platinum Member
I haven't been around in a long while. I was dx'ed with Asperger's early this year, and went through several months of just trying to figure out what it means to have a relationship of any kind with anyone, so I've spent a lot of time alone thinking these things through.
Something happened this week that I can't talk about with people I know IRL, but I could use some ideas on how to respond, if at all.
Condensed version of the background:
Both of my mom's husbands were abusive, and she didn't get free of them until I reported my step-dad to the authorities after I left home. I used to think of her as a fellow victim, but over the past few years, it's slowly dawned on me how much she allowed and cooperated with the abuse, and has continued with a lot of covert and manipulative abuse today, even though my siblings and I are all adults with our own kids.
My T agrees with me that my mom has strong borderline and narcissistic characteristics. I work for my mom in our professional-level jobs, so I can't go no contact, although I have greatly reduced contact outside of work. As you can imagine, this caused a family-wide crisis, which put me permanently in the scapegoat role. My husband has also been vilified at this point, since he won't take Mom's side on my need for space. My children are treated as Chosen Children, idealized, with constant attempts at enmeshment, so this was another reason for needing space. But Mom still sees them about every 3 weeks on average (never alone anymore) for birthdays, recitals, that kind of thing.
She's also a lay minister for her church and on her own. As in, she travels internationally on mission/speaking trips, sometimes leading a team, and she leads a lay counseling ministry at her church. Earlier this year, she led a 2-month, weekly training seminar for her particular brand of lay counseling (I don't want to give too much info for anonymity's sake). Her sessions were video taped, and she posted them on YouTube.
So here's what happened:
I knew those videos were there for several weeks, but only this week decided to watch any of them. I wanted to see how my own beliefs have changed over the last few years since the time when I used to help her with her ministry. On the first video, I noticed several points where I either outright disagreed with her, or I saw a nuanced distinction in what she said vs. how I see it, so I thought this was a good sign of my progress in learning to think for myself. I decided to watch a few minutes of a 2nd video, just to see if it was more of the same.
At the beginning of the 2nd video, she immediately started talking to the audience about her relationship with me. Although she didn't say my name, she specified that she was talking about one of her children, and anyone who knows her would know which child is not on her good side (the others are all Golden Children right now since, in effect, I've basically volunteered to keep the Scapegoat seat occupied indefinitely). We live in the same town, so it's not unreasonable to think that people we know could have been at that seminar, or will see it on YouTube (she also advertised the videos on Facebook where many family members could have seen the link).
She was teaching about the drama triangle, where the 3 roles are victim, rescuer, and persecutor. And in discussing this topic, she used me as an example of how she made herself my victim, and from me she took on false guilt and believed false accusations against her. She said I was her prodigal child, and that she was having to learn how to let me make bad decisions and go "the wrong way" (as if there are only two options: her way, or the wrong way), while not saving me from my pain or rescuing me from the consequences of my bad behavior. She said that a good parent and a good leader will let the people under them make bad decisions so they can experience the consequences of those choices...the implication being that they will eventually figure out they should have done it her way (i.e., the right way) to begin with.
The problem is, none of this is true about me.
As my T pointed out after he had seen part of the video, I've not made any demands on Mom to help me at all, neither with my pain nor with the consequences of my decisions (actually, I don't want her anywhere near my pain, and overall I'm fairly pleased with how well I've been making decisions through most of this ordeal the past few years). The way he said it: "She sees herself as FANTASTIC, and she's being FANTASTIC all over the place...but you're saying to her, 'Just don't FANTASTIC yourself all over me.'"
I'm not sure what Mom means about making bad decisions or going the wrong way. Is she implying I'm on drugs? ...become an alcoholic? ...completely left Christianity? ...completely cut her out of my life? None of these is true in the least. I've never tried illegal drugs, I don't get drunk, I play an active role at my church (although it's not her church, so maybe that's the real problem), I continue to work hard for her (although I work from home and refuse to work at her place), and she still sees my kids about every 3 weeks on average. I don't do anything illegal, I work hard and do a good job, and my husband and I take very good care of our kids; plus, she gets to be a part of many of their major milestone events. What more could a reasonable parent want of their grown child?
Later in the video, she says a prayer about how she asks forgiveness and then forgives herself for all she's ever done wrong towards me, and how she will no longer accept false accusations from the enemy, and how she will no longer take on false guilt.
So my T and I talked about this at length during my session yesterday. He said that when he watched the few minutes that he saw, he was angry. He said he kept feeling anger at the things she was saying (we've worked some on talking about emotions, so that's why he was so communicative about his feelings). He said she has achieved a "masterful" manipulation, that she's pretty much closed any openings for honest feedback from me at all, and made it all sound so righteous in the meantime.
He asked how I'm handling all of this, and we talked a lot about my thoughts on it. I told him that if I had seen this video a few months ago, I wouldn't have handled it well. But at this point, I recognize that she's speaking out of her own neuroticism....that this really isn't about me. He actually got tears in his eyes when I said that (he's never before even come close to crying in a session, lol) because, as he said, "You've learned not to let her speak to your identity. That's not where we started." It shows how far I've really come in my own recovery.
It hurts that she so blatantly lied about me...publicly...on record...and advertised it. My husband, especially, is concerned about how this might affect me or the kids if someone in the community treats me in a condemning sort of way or somehow communicates to the kids a sense of pity or suspicion. My T was flabbergasted that Mom would talk like that about "one of her babies"...who is also on her staff...who has an extensive trauma background caused by her poor decisions.
Now what?
My first reaction was to not respond at all. I don't want to feed her drama. It feels to me like she wanted me to see these videos (she or one of my sisters has mentioned them a couple of times to me or in my presence over the past several weeks). It feels like she's baiting me. I can't think of a single response that wouldn't, in some way, give her ammunition against me.
My T, though, is concerned that no response allows the abusive pattern to repeat. He pointed out that my step-dad used me when I was a kid, and I wasn't allowed to protest. The ability to protest now, as an adult, is an important factor in the ability to protect my boundaries.
My husband is primarily concerned about how this is going to affect our relationships with other people in the community. Although people might not put those pieces together, if they do, it could be very damaging, especially for our kids. My not saying anything to Mom leaves the door wide open for her to keep talking about this, in the way that she's telling this story, to whomever she pleases. I suppose she could do that anyway, but she's very concerned to always look like the "good guy." If I can somehow respond in a way that illuminates how "bad" this behavior is, she might at least try a different tactic in the future instead of this one, even if, in the meantime, she gets defensive with me and makes life difficult for me, and refuses to ever apologize or understand how hurtful this is for us.
Any thoughts, ideas, or insights?
Something happened this week that I can't talk about with people I know IRL, but I could use some ideas on how to respond, if at all.
Condensed version of the background:
Both of my mom's husbands were abusive, and she didn't get free of them until I reported my step-dad to the authorities after I left home. I used to think of her as a fellow victim, but over the past few years, it's slowly dawned on me how much she allowed and cooperated with the abuse, and has continued with a lot of covert and manipulative abuse today, even though my siblings and I are all adults with our own kids.
My T agrees with me that my mom has strong borderline and narcissistic characteristics. I work for my mom in our professional-level jobs, so I can't go no contact, although I have greatly reduced contact outside of work. As you can imagine, this caused a family-wide crisis, which put me permanently in the scapegoat role. My husband has also been vilified at this point, since he won't take Mom's side on my need for space. My children are treated as Chosen Children, idealized, with constant attempts at enmeshment, so this was another reason for needing space. But Mom still sees them about every 3 weeks on average (never alone anymore) for birthdays, recitals, that kind of thing.
She's also a lay minister for her church and on her own. As in, she travels internationally on mission/speaking trips, sometimes leading a team, and she leads a lay counseling ministry at her church. Earlier this year, she led a 2-month, weekly training seminar for her particular brand of lay counseling (I don't want to give too much info for anonymity's sake). Her sessions were video taped, and she posted them on YouTube.
So here's what happened:
I knew those videos were there for several weeks, but only this week decided to watch any of them. I wanted to see how my own beliefs have changed over the last few years since the time when I used to help her with her ministry. On the first video, I noticed several points where I either outright disagreed with her, or I saw a nuanced distinction in what she said vs. how I see it, so I thought this was a good sign of my progress in learning to think for myself. I decided to watch a few minutes of a 2nd video, just to see if it was more of the same.
At the beginning of the 2nd video, she immediately started talking to the audience about her relationship with me. Although she didn't say my name, she specified that she was talking about one of her children, and anyone who knows her would know which child is not on her good side (the others are all Golden Children right now since, in effect, I've basically volunteered to keep the Scapegoat seat occupied indefinitely). We live in the same town, so it's not unreasonable to think that people we know could have been at that seminar, or will see it on YouTube (she also advertised the videos on Facebook where many family members could have seen the link).
She was teaching about the drama triangle, where the 3 roles are victim, rescuer, and persecutor. And in discussing this topic, she used me as an example of how she made herself my victim, and from me she took on false guilt and believed false accusations against her. She said I was her prodigal child, and that she was having to learn how to let me make bad decisions and go "the wrong way" (as if there are only two options: her way, or the wrong way), while not saving me from my pain or rescuing me from the consequences of my bad behavior. She said that a good parent and a good leader will let the people under them make bad decisions so they can experience the consequences of those choices...the implication being that they will eventually figure out they should have done it her way (i.e., the right way) to begin with.
The problem is, none of this is true about me.
As my T pointed out after he had seen part of the video, I've not made any demands on Mom to help me at all, neither with my pain nor with the consequences of my decisions (actually, I don't want her anywhere near my pain, and overall I'm fairly pleased with how well I've been making decisions through most of this ordeal the past few years). The way he said it: "She sees herself as FANTASTIC, and she's being FANTASTIC all over the place...but you're saying to her, 'Just don't FANTASTIC yourself all over me.'"
I'm not sure what Mom means about making bad decisions or going the wrong way. Is she implying I'm on drugs? ...become an alcoholic? ...completely left Christianity? ...completely cut her out of my life? None of these is true in the least. I've never tried illegal drugs, I don't get drunk, I play an active role at my church (although it's not her church, so maybe that's the real problem), I continue to work hard for her (although I work from home and refuse to work at her place), and she still sees my kids about every 3 weeks on average. I don't do anything illegal, I work hard and do a good job, and my husband and I take very good care of our kids; plus, she gets to be a part of many of their major milestone events. What more could a reasonable parent want of their grown child?
Later in the video, she says a prayer about how she asks forgiveness and then forgives herself for all she's ever done wrong towards me, and how she will no longer accept false accusations from the enemy, and how she will no longer take on false guilt.
So my T and I talked about this at length during my session yesterday. He said that when he watched the few minutes that he saw, he was angry. He said he kept feeling anger at the things she was saying (we've worked some on talking about emotions, so that's why he was so communicative about his feelings). He said she has achieved a "masterful" manipulation, that she's pretty much closed any openings for honest feedback from me at all, and made it all sound so righteous in the meantime.
He asked how I'm handling all of this, and we talked a lot about my thoughts on it. I told him that if I had seen this video a few months ago, I wouldn't have handled it well. But at this point, I recognize that she's speaking out of her own neuroticism....that this really isn't about me. He actually got tears in his eyes when I said that (he's never before even come close to crying in a session, lol) because, as he said, "You've learned not to let her speak to your identity. That's not where we started." It shows how far I've really come in my own recovery.
It hurts that she so blatantly lied about me...publicly...on record...and advertised it. My husband, especially, is concerned about how this might affect me or the kids if someone in the community treats me in a condemning sort of way or somehow communicates to the kids a sense of pity or suspicion. My T was flabbergasted that Mom would talk like that about "one of her babies"...who is also on her staff...who has an extensive trauma background caused by her poor decisions.
Now what?
My first reaction was to not respond at all. I don't want to feed her drama. It feels to me like she wanted me to see these videos (she or one of my sisters has mentioned them a couple of times to me or in my presence over the past several weeks). It feels like she's baiting me. I can't think of a single response that wouldn't, in some way, give her ammunition against me.
My T, though, is concerned that no response allows the abusive pattern to repeat. He pointed out that my step-dad used me when I was a kid, and I wasn't allowed to protest. The ability to protest now, as an adult, is an important factor in the ability to protect my boundaries.
My husband is primarily concerned about how this is going to affect our relationships with other people in the community. Although people might not put those pieces together, if they do, it could be very damaging, especially for our kids. My not saying anything to Mom leaves the door wide open for her to keep talking about this, in the way that she's telling this story, to whomever she pleases. I suppose she could do that anyway, but she's very concerned to always look like the "good guy." If I can somehow respond in a way that illuminates how "bad" this behavior is, she might at least try a different tactic in the future instead of this one, even if, in the meantime, she gets defensive with me and makes life difficult for me, and refuses to ever apologize or understand how hurtful this is for us.
Any thoughts, ideas, or insights?
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