Mom Posted Youtube Video...ideas On Response?

[lostforgottensoul]

she is involved with the leadership at several churches in our area, and even in a much larger geographical area. She does training seminars internationally as well as nationally. If I were able to share her name, many people in her specific stream of Christianity would recognize her, or at least recognize people she is regularly in direct contact with. A friend of mine at my old church recently had a conversation with someone who is new to the type of counseling my mom teaches. The person asked my friend if she had heard of my mom, not knowing my friend's connection to me.

If you set a boundry, there needs to be a consequence for going beyond that boundry. Could that possibly be contacting leaders of her church, leaders of counseling, leaders of whatever this was on youtube? I mean, I get she could be the leader but someone is filming and producing, right? Is there any direct leader in this "ministry thing"?

I would approach very very carefully. If anything is said, I would try to do it in your professional head as I dont think she should know that she hurt you or upset you as that's what she is trying to do.

Also, if you set a boundry, set it and walk away. No back and forth as thats what she is baiting you for. If you say anything back its to restate the boundry.

Also Id not advise the kids of any of it.

Im not saying you should respond though I do get why you want to. Im just trying to think of an area you can go, and not be stuck, if you set a boundry and she crosses it.

She may not cross it but if you say "dont do this" you also need to say "and if you do this will happen" and then stick to it.

Therefore, before you reply with a boundry, know and make known the consequence. That's what i think your focus should be. What can you do, professionally, if she crosses that boundry.

If you can think of a good one and can stay professional without any emotion, i say go for it with setting a boundry. But without a consequence, a boundry doesnt mean anything, therefore if you truely are stuck if she crosses it and you cant do anything about it, dont say anything at all.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I will respectfully disagree with @lostforgottensoul ... Boundaries are needed, but dragging in the leaders of her church/ministries isn't a good idea. That to me just seems like retailiation, and dragging in a 3rd party into a family dispute isn't the way to go IMO. This is between mother and daughter, even though mom has decided to make this public.

Again, my opinion would be to rise above this, and do and say nothing. People like her eventually get outted. People will see her for what and who she early is. It will be a waiting game, but honestly if you do and say nothing, you WILL come out on top. This is all about being healthy when the unhealthy are trying to drag you down....

 

[lostforgottensoul]

That to me just seems like retailiation,

Not at all. If im the producer of a film lets say, or even a leader of a church and someone is negitively mentioned on a film with my or my institutes name on it, that borders slander, Id want to know.

Just a thought of a consequence. If thats not proper then its not proper but if it were me and there was a leader like person, id tell them even if i didnt tell my mom as its their name slandering, or almost slandering mine.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

People like her eventually get outted. People will see her for what and who she early is.

And I disagree with this. Some do, my "people like her" didnt. Therefore, not all "people like her" get outted and in fact, some get put on a pedastal.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

You know what Id do @DogwoodTree, take this and the replies to your therapist (or just talk more to him) and come to an agreement if you will say anything or not and if so what that boundry and consequence will be.

With my family, in many ways saying nothing was the high road but in many ways the drama was steam rolling me until I stood up to them.

We dont know the full situation but your therapist does and so id go off of what he says, which ever the way it is.

I do also see you stuck if she crosses that boundry if you make one so that would be what id figure out with your therapist if you both agree you should say something.

Personally I see it both ways. Its a hard situation for sure and im sorry you have to deal with it! :hug:

 

[DogwoodTree]

kids should never, ever be used as pawns in any sort of game; just like you shouldn't be used as a pawn by your mum.

Yes, I agree.

I've seen the damage that can be done when the kids are told too much. My dad tried to get custody of us when I was old enough to tell a judge who I wanted to live with. He tried to convince me that my mom was evil and we should live with him (although he was no better). When Mom started thinking he might actually succeed, she sat me down and told me the real reasons she had divorced him several years earlier. He was abusive to her, committing marital rape and sexual abuse of other kinds too, and she was honestly afraid for our safety if we went to live with him. While she succeeded in convincing me to stay with her, that information was way too mature for me at that age. I still have images in my head that I can't get rid of because of that conversation.

But at the same time...leaving the kids clueless...and then they think we're keeping them from their beloved grandmother...that doesn't work well as they get older. I try to water down the information they get, and keep it emotionally neutral. They really know very, very little at this point.

I wish there were children's books that could explain to kids about dysfunctional family dynamics in ways that would lead them towards healing rather than harm. :(

Could that possibly be contacting leaders of her church, leaders of counseling, leaders of whatever this was on youtube? I mean, I get she could be the leader but someone is filming and producing, right? Is there any direct leader in this "ministry thing"?

The videos and training are done under her own ministry's name. Although she's loosely connected to an international organization, there's no direct oversight. And I've heard feedback from some other people that this organization she's under...the leader of that group is not so mentally healthy himself.

She is under the leadership of her local church for anything she does at their building. But they essentially gave her a "blank check" (that was actually the term the pastor used in one of his early conversations with her). And she somehow has gotten a lot of freedom to use other churches' buildings for her trainings as well.

Really, she's very, very good at playing this part. She starts ministering to the leaders of a church, and bringing them into emotional experiences that touch them deeply, and they want whatever she's willing to give their congregations. People in many of the congregations she's worked with call her "Mama," including the pastors at some of those churches.

Now, she does do a lot of good things for these people, too. But she brings levels of "spiritual insights" and more that fascinate people and draw them in...I wish I could give more details, but if I say too much, it could make things too identifiable, especially if someone here would recognize the terminology from their own backgrounds.

dragging in a 3rd party into a family dispute isn't the way to go IMO.

I agree, which is why I haven't given that option serious consideration. I don't think any of them would believe me anyway. I suspect they're gonna have to learn the hard way. :(

take this and the replies to your therapist (or just talk more to him) and come to an agreement if you will say anything or not and if so what that boundry and consequence will be.

Yes, we talked last week about waiting until we've thoroughly thought this through before making any kind of response. I'm fine with that. I'm not "chomping at the bit" to say anything...those videos have been sitting online for months already.

 

[DogwoodTree]

You know, in some ways I feel a sense of freedom because of all of this. Her comments on that video...it makes the extent of her neuroticism so much more obvious to me now. There's less of a sense of obligation to give her what she wants. It's easier to say "no" when I know that she really doesn't know better than I do. She really doesn't have loving intentions towards me, even if she calls it "love."

I don't think she's aware of how bizarre her behavior is, but that doesn't mean it's any less destructive...that doesn't mean I can't create space for my own well-being. I guess I feel more justified in pulling away from her as I'm seeing how severely she's reacted. That video helps to get her off the pedestal in my mind and see her as a flawed human being.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

she's very, very good at playing this part. She starts ministering to the leaders of a church, and bringing them into emotional experiences that touch them deeply, and they want whatever she's willing to give their congregations. People in many of the congregations she's worked with call her "Mama," including the pastors at some of those churches.

WOW does that sound extremely familur! My mother raised me in a cult and though Im not calling this a cult or a group that borders a cult, it is danerously heading in that direction!

I don't think she's aware of how bizarre her behavior is, but that doesn't mean it's any less destructive...that doesn't mean I can't create space for my own well-being. I guess I feel more justified in pulling away from her as I'm seeing how severely she's reacted. That video helps to get her off the pedestal in my mind and see her as a flawed human being.

Good! It is hard when you are raised to essentientally worship them in a sense!

And my therapist and I have spoken a TON of possibities of my mom's mental health. Not my step dad's, just my mom's. There a ton of obvious: psycopath/sociopath (advised by my therapist), narcissist, but we also talked extensive about if she today believes, truely believes it all didnt happen and he said he thought that was the case. That she has gotten herself to fully believe her lies. She's now passed away.

So your mom likely also doesnt. If she's a narcissist, that's part of NPD, not knowing that you are not mentally sound and need help.

But no, it doesnt make her any less dangerous nor does it mean you shouldnt have your own space for your mental health and anything else.

Im glad this is becoming clearer and easier for you! Talking about stuff helps for me. :hug:

 

[Deleted member 541]

@DogwoodTree I think that you have a really good head on your shoulders. You are not thinking/acting with your emotions. You are not feeding into her unhealthy behavior. Good job!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I agree with She Cat in that you are managing this situation in such a mature manner and keeping your head on is a very good thing. You sound so good and I think whatever you choose to do will be successful.

 

[SometimesWriter]

You know, in some ways I feel a sense of freedom because of all of this. Her comments on that video...

Alright, I've read every reply and at first I wasn't going to add on to the thread because I think you've heard so many different opinions and everyone here has some really great ideas and solid suggestions - but I just want to say how proud I am that you've come to THIS conclusion about it, because THAT'S how you "win" in this horrible, effed up situation.

I'm going to keep it light and nerdy - you just had your "Sarah Williams Moment" with that post, you metaphorically looked your Goblin Queen of a mother (that's not the metaphorical part, your mom sounds like a horrible human being, I'm sorry if that offends you but I don't think it will) but you just looked her dead in her metaphorical eye and said, "YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME."

Other Random Observations:

I know how badly you want to confront her, but I agree with the others that it will only fulfill her desire to bait you. I would say of anyone that believes her or follows her around like a sycophant that their opinion of you is null and void given the company they keep.

The only other thing that I would add that I have not seen others suggest and is not something you want to hear - get a new job, ASAP. I completely understand that you love your job and you don't want to lose it - but by keeping the job it sounds like you're still allowing her to have some power or hold over you because you work for her. She may always feel she has a right to lie and slander and manipulate you because she is your mother, your god apparently, and your boss.

Is there any way that you could start looking for a new job that is in any way similar? It may not be the answer or suggestion you want, but I feel it should be something you consider, even though it's going to be difficult and you may not find a position that is exactly the same or as rewarding, but removing that last hold she has over you could be a very freeing thing for you and your family.

I wish you the best @DogwoodTree I really do - everything that you've said here shows me that you have a great head on your shoulders and you're going to make the best decision for yourself, I'm really proud of you for all the progress you've made with your T and reading your words, I'm inspired that I can get there too!

 

[DogwoodTree]

"YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME."

This is a great summary of the whole experience.

I had a call with her earlier this week where she said she's going to back out of a project she was supposed to lead and leave it up to my sister and me because she's so "afraid" of me. She said she couldn't handle the idea of working with me on this project, and there were several other guilt-trip comments peppered through the whole conversation.

I told my DH...I have no idea why she would be afraid of me. My T suggested it's because she can't control me now, but what is she telling herself? I never yell at her, never cuss, never threaten (she threatens me frequently with suggestions that she might cut me out of the company or shut down the company or walk away from the whole thing, etc), and never show emotional intensity in my conversations with her (except maybe two or three times in the past 3 years, and never before that as an adult, and even those few times it was simply *intensity* in my voice, like annoyance or frustration or fear, not a raised/loud voice or rage or despair). I've never been violent towards her, I've never cheated her, I've never left a project hanging without doing my part (unlike my sister who disappeared in the middle of an intense project to take an impromptu vacation, and then never completely finished her part even when she came back a week later...I had to work extra hard to take on the part she refused to do...and then mom blamed me for the whole ordeal).

However I might have treated her badly, I really want to know. I want to understand. I don't want to harm people. But she's never been able to give me a clear response to that request at all, even though I've asked her quite a few times over the past 2 years now since she started to become conscious of the fact that I was slowly withdrawing from her. She says, "I've told you already" but then won't give any details. She dances around the question as if it's so true and obvious without ever putting it into words. Then when she asks me the same question, "What have I done to hurt you so much?" and I give her specific examples, she fusses about why haven't I forgiven her already? "That was sooo long ago!" (even if it was just a week or two before the conversation). What am I missing?

I'm starting to wonder...at what point do we call this a break from reality? At what point is this classified as borderline-style psychosis? I don't know if those questions are too extreme to be asking...I really don't know. But she treats me as if I'm an abuser, even though I treat her calmly and respectfully and do my work well and speak well of her in public.

anyone that believes her or follows her around like a sycophant that their opinion of you is null and void given the company they keep.

Yes, I can see that now. I feel sorry for them. They're such desperate people. I've been around people like that for so many years while I was helping her with her ministry work, before I started to figure out how bizarre this stuff was. Seems like the only reason they would follow someone like my mom is if they were groomed for this years ago. The whole thing is just sad.

Is there any way that you could start looking for a new job that is in any way similar? It may not be the answer or suggestion you want, but I feel it should be something you consider

My T and his supervisor both asked this question a few months ago with another situation. My T felt the need to consult with his supervisor on this other event, since I had so much raw data (because of the nature of the event) for them to discuss (sorry I can't give more details--this is the internet, afterall). The supervisor started throwing around the term "sociopathic" to describe her behavior during that event. I still have a hard time seeing that, but that might be my own blindness from having been groomed.

Basically, though, I'm under contract in such a way that if I stop working for her, I would be extremely restricted in pursuing similar options. It would almost be like starting over. I can't give more details, but T and I have discussed this option multiple times, and it's just not feasible at this point without a huge cut in pay and an almost complete career change. At the same time though, I'm working to fill out my resume in ways that would make me more employable if this whole thing falls apart. It's not what I would choose, but I'm trying to be ready in case we have to face that.

I'm inspired that I can get there too!

I'm so glad this is helpful for you. There are so many ups and downs through this journey...I hope it continues to be helpful to me going forward, too, lol. It's so easy, once I cycle back into a low spot, to forget the victories I've experienced, you know?