My Mom Just Left A Voicemail

[Iam]

No Jade....I told you the truth. What decisions and choices our kids make as adults are up to them. Just like our choices are up to us. And we pay the consequesnces good and bad for those choices. I just wish I had been more stable when they were growing up. Guilt is an awful thing isn't it? Does us no good. Guess I was having a hard time accepting Anni's compliment so tried to deflect it.Thing is...I do believe by our making positive changes, we can be a role model for our kids even now that they are grown. And I do see that happening with my sons. So yes....I told you truth ;o) Thanks for pointing it out Jade, that helps ;o)

 

[anni]

It IS hard to accept the good things in the children. I have had people say 'Oh, your children are so polite/nice/funny/smart etc how do you do it?' I always ALWAYS respond with 'Oh well, it's nothing to do with me, they did all that themselves', then possibly throw in something about how accomplished my parents are, they must have gotten something from them. Mine are at varying stages of reaching whatever their full potential is. One had the fortune to meet his wife awfully young and I don't hesitate to say her influence enabled him to get that Master's under his belt despite what he went through as a child.SHE tells me he's the person she loves because he learned to flatly just love his mother, and is able to depend on that through anything-she thinks it transfered to his marriage.So screwed up- I'm 4 for 4 on anxiety disorders, but equipped with what seems to be the core of what we gave them, they're really, really capable. It's taken an awfully long time to allow that recognition in my head-I dislike myself mostly, but it is what it is, and not a bad thought. They'll get there.

 

[intothelight]

I think this line says it all.

It IS hard to accept the good things in the children

As mom's we look at everything through the PTSD glasses, but they create a distorted view. When you are abused as a child, many of us are so afraid we will repeat it and question our parenting abilities. I know that I had difficulty with disciplining my children as I equated it with abuse. It took a long time to realize that discipline is setting boundaries for them and not abuse. (I finally figured it out with number 3:wink:).

When you live with an abusive partner, you spend all of your time in protection and survival mode. Parenting becomes an obstacle course where success is measured in the degree in which you keep them away from the abuser and they don't see you abused. Your mindset become so distorted you don't see the collateral damage.

The truth is not everything was "bad" for our children. A truly loving parent that does their best is still a good parent. I think that even victims of childhood abuse can recognize it was the lack of love, concern, validation, support and all of the other emotional deficiencies that created the most damage. I understand anger, but I don't understand why my mother denied it or was never sorry.

This turned into a bit of a ramble. As parents we can only do the "best" that we can do. No childhood is perfect and most parents question their abilities, PTSD or not. Just love them and enjoy them. I've had to let the guilt go, because it was a huge block in having a good relationship with my children. They felt they had created the "guilt" and it was really mine alone to own and disown.

Anni and Iam, well done in raising families in spite of the horrors of this life.

 

[anni]

So funny because I read along with ITL's post, nodding, and then when she said 'Well done' at the end to us my knee jerk reaction in my head was ' Yes, but I don't know how they turned out so well... ' Hee! But thank you, ITL, you're correct as usual with this stuff. :)

 

[Iam]

Good insight ITL and Anni ;o)

The truth is not everything was "bad" for our children. A truly loving parent that does their best is still a good parent. I think that even victims of childhood abuse can recognize it was the lack of love, concern, validation, support and all of the other emotional deficiencies that created the most damage. I understand anger, but I don't understand why my mother denied it or was never sorry.

ITL your comment helped me more than you can know. You are so RIGHT!!!!!!!! My boys did and do know how much I love them. I was and still am very involved in their lives and did apologize for my instability. I do still let them talk about the things I did which hurt them when they feel the need though it stabs me in the heart every time. They don't do it out of trying to guilt me....sometimes they just need to say it. I am however at a point where I need to ask them if it is still necessary for them to mention stuff like that. If it is I am ok with it, but if they don't need it for their healing....would it be wrong to ask them to not bring it up anymore?

 

[pandora]

I have the same anxiety with my Mom but she lives in my house! UUGGHHH....I understand that feeling of not wanting to talk when they are in that frame of mind and you know nothing you say or do will be right. Just two days ago she freaked on me...BAD..called me horrific names. Then yesterday and today she is my best friend..very hard to deal with but I do the same thing you do...I then think...she is ill, she has had a hard life, she has ptsd too, she is not always awful but when she is..its abusive when she is nice she is over the top. I think focusing on the good news from yous sons is also a good thing!

 

[intothelight]

Hi Iam,

I been thinking about this comment a lot.............

They don't do it out of trying to guilt me....sometimes they just need to say it. I am however at a point where I need to ask them if it is still necessary for them to mention stuff like that. If it is I am ok with it, but if they don't need it for their healing....would it be wrong to ask them to not bring it up anymore?

This is just my opinion and my experience, not anything based on any scientific stuff.

With relationships there are always things that "bother" us and it is wonderful to have an opportunity to address them, work through, agree to disagree, etc.; and then move on. But that is the operative here "moving on". I think the key to a sufferer getting better and the family getting better is "going forward". I do not think it is at all inappropriate to discuss "moving on" with children. Issues are addressed and at some time there has to be closure.

After I made my suicide attempt, there has been a lot of fall out. It made my family scared, concerned and angry, and the anger part is what we just dealt with. My children feel like I let them down and was going to abandon them. They are also afraid to trust me and worry about me if I am alone, or show any signs of depression.

But their constant checking on me, following me, and treating me like a patient in the Alzheimer's unit wasn't helping anything. I reminded them we had a plan and that I would abide by it. Even though they come back with "How can we trust you?", we all had to conclude that for all of their lives, except the past three months they could trust me so they need to focus on the "whole" picture. There is no rewind and I cannot change what happened, so we all need to move forward. They don't "like" it, but I have no control over their feelings. It is what it is and if I am doing my best, I can expect the same of them.

I hope this helps.

ITL

 

[Iam]

Good job Pandora. I really don't know how you do it though. I can't even live in the same state as my mom LOL! Yeah, it is the typical abuser syndrome, abuse, then feel bad and the honeymoon period. Unfortunatley my mom is drunk when she gets really bad so she doesn't even remember what she has done. These last to voicemail, while they have been manipulative, they have not been abusive. It is my reactions to the sound of her victim voice that I have such a hard time with. I have laid down boundaries so she is very well aware that when she leaves an abusive voicemail I will not call her back and if she does it during a conversation I excuse myself from it. So I do handle my communication with her well....I just need to use the coping skills you were talking about and do a lot of positive self talk to bring my anxiety down. It does seem to be working! Kudos to you in being able to handle your mom in such a positive way!!!!

 

[Iam]

Thanks ITL. I think that even though I have discussed things with my boys individually that I do need to have this "closure" converstation with them.

With relationships there are always things that "bother" us and it is wonderful to have an opportunity to address them, work through, agree to disagree, etc.; and then move on. But that is the operative here "moving on". I think the key to a sufferer getting better and the family getting better is "going forward". I do not think it is at all inappropriate to discuss "moving on" with children. Issues are addressed and at some time there has to be closure.

It's possible that they are worried about me right now as they do know that I am struggling thru therapy and know some of what happened to me. I do not share the details with them. My oldest son, 27, asks questions and I do anwer those questions. I think that if there is worry there that I should reassure them that I have a plan. Dang....that would mean putting one in place. Ugggh! Honestly....I hate the thought of that simply because if I decide I want to do "it" I really don't like the fact that I can't because I've made a promise. Feels like giving control of making my own choices away. Hmmmmm......my T wanted to do that but I told him "no". Then I got to a point when he brought that up that I would never be able to do it when I am in "that frame of mind." His comment was that we should do it now since I was willing, but that was at the end of the session a couple of weeks ago and he hasn't brought it up since.

My oldest son and I are going for a ride tomorrow. I think I should bring this up to him and see where he is at.

Very good points ITL. Thank you so much. That is a HUGE help!

 

[anni]

This discussion makes me profoundly thoughtful. My eldest is 31, then 29, 19 and 11. ( don't ask.... :) ). We have had very few direct, frank converstaions about the past, the 2 eldest at least. Some. The eldest has had great feelings of anger and resentment in the past-entirely, completely justified and worked them out in therapy, mostly plus support. The 29 year old is the opposite, just disinclined to 'blame' me for anything, creating excuses for me having put those children in an awful situation which are in my opinion wildly undeserve. That's not some falsely humble statement, it's just true. I have yet to make my own peace with that part of the past, cannot view old photos of the boys at those ages. It's not possible-I was responsible for what these children were seeing and feeling in those years-i cannot meet their eyes. It's not unwillingness to take responsibility-noone can kick me more, harder or more thoroughly than I do myself, although noone knows this because even that is drawing attention to 'me' which I feel is undeserved.I don't wish to be given an excuse, or reason not to shoulder the guilt-not out of a wish to wallow in it but because I cannot comprehend what there would be that would possibly be enough by way of ENOUGH to make up for or genuinely forgive THAT. That's just myself. I so wish I were capable of going for a ride with my son, either one or both, and figure out what he sees when he looks at me. They are fine, good, successful people. Something I did resulted in that, a logical and somewhat forced conclusion but true. The guilt isn't being dislodged or even budged so just cannot own the concept, even in the abstract. Boy is that a lot of pain, also completely unshared-til this moment, actually.When guilt is too deep even sharing it feels undeserved, you know?

The word inspiration gets thrown around a lot- some celebrity is supposed to be inspiring because of what? Nice teeth, visiting a zoo? It's a safe word to use here in the forum because genuine. This connection with your children-and ITL also- this ride and talk and the closure or whatever transpires is indeed an inspiration to me. Who the hell knows if I'll finally ever feel even worthy enough to begin, but it must be something to at least be inspired enough to bring it up with the T-soon. Like next session. So thank you.

And hijacked your thread. I'm geunuinely sorry!

 

[Iam]

No apologies needed Anni, that is exactly what this thread is about. Discussion, venting, airing, sharing...whatever word we want to put to it. It probably should have gone under the PTSD relationship section instead of anxiety, but anxiety is what I feel when I touch on conflict in relationship.

My middle son and I worked things out when he had me drive him out of state to live somewhere else. He was not living with us at the time but needed the transportation down to his new home. It was a bittersweet trip. We discussed his acting out with drugs and sex, my breakdown and my overall instability when the boys were growing up. We both did a lot of crying and apologizing. And yes both of us needed to apologize. While he may have been acting out because of stressors at home, he also put us thru hell. Anyway....we have been so incredibly close since then. He calls his father and I, he and his wife's best friends. Wow, what a compliment!

My oldest son held a lot of anger in about me. Like your kids, it couldn't have been my fault. I was supermom in his eyes. I am sure that I added to it when he was younger because I always blamed others for the problems. His younger brother, the middle one I had worked things out with, told him that he saw that anger underneath it all and that he needed to work it out with me. The kids were visiting, it was late so I went to bed and was reading. Ben came in, sat down on the bed and started talking about how he felt. He even said that I had always blamed others. I had told him that oh no.....I felt so horribly guilty and asked him to forgive me (short version here of course). Again lots of tears and love. He is a very deep thinking individual and I do share some of what I am going thru with him. Is that wrong? At 27 years old is it ok? I know that I appreciate knowing what my mother has gone thru. It has helped me understand and forgive her.

My youngest son is the hardest to talk to. I took him out to lunch a couple of days ago. His girlfriend broke up with him because he was partying too much. Even a week ago he hadn't seen it as a problem and I told him if it affects a relationship it is a problem. At lunch Weds he told me that I was right. That he had cut way back. YAY! I brought up what my T and I had discussed the day before about my drug addiction in high school. It wasn't so much that it made me feel good (which it did for awhile), what I was really subconciously doing was to numb the pain. So I asked my son, "what pain are you trying to numb?" He said he was doing it just for fun. I reminded him of all the stuff he grew up with and that surely there had to be pain there. He said maybe so I asked him, now that he is clear headed, to think about it. Then gave him permission to talk to me about whatever he needs to. We'll see what happens.

Sorry for the novel, but it seems that many of us here carry this same guilt around regarding our children.

Again....ITL....your comment about having loved my boys and that they always knew it is so true. It is not like when I grew up. I do talk about stuff with my mom now and she is sorry for stuff that happened to me, but admitting what she did that was abusive is hard for her. She has at times tried. My boys have always known they were loved. And yours too Anni. That is the most important thing. I think that is why they are successful now.....they knew their mom loved them and still does!

 

[anni]

I like seeing these novels on this. Besides being important, geesh, it's just that one can't keep looking away from this stuff, in case there's something there one doesn't wish to see, or can't bear to see. I do not, or have not felt I've had the right to give the matter much scrutiny. The 'novels', well, it's rather making it clearer to see that the it's not an awful thing, that it's just not filled with pain anymore and they really are going to be ok, they're not just appearing that way. I am not being clear, so please excuse. It's rather an ancient boil.