Need to end this familial tie

[Strangelongtrip]

I went out with someone today. We're relatives. We have a relationship that honestly isn't healthy when I look at it. I've repeatedly tried to stop talking to her and hang out with her but whenever I do she guilts me into seeing her again. Tonight was incredibly condescending and rude to me over and over again about simple things. She's ALWAYS like this. She always makes it sound like she's the only person who knows everything in the world, and everyone else is an idiot for not knowing what she does. I think it's a coping mechanism for the fact she doesn't have life figured out at all and her life is a mess, which is fine but the fact she thinks she knows everything rubs me the wrong way, especially when she's being mean to me. I called her out on it, like I have a million times before, and she said she wouldn't have known her tone was bad if I didn't tell her (which I HAVE told her, a hundred times--and she never does anything about it), then proceeded to lecture me for a few minutes about how to *her* it sounds that I'm being *judgemental* (which to her, is the worst thing a human being can be) and how I'm a super judgmental person.

Yes, I can be judgmental. But I'm learning to not be so much. In this case, I don't think this is a judgement. This is: I have known you well for this many years, and you're being mean to me, repeatedly. She made me cry at the bar because she kept trying to psychoanalyze everything I did to the point where everything I did was terrible, then when I would say "I'm miserable/I'm terrible" she'd say no you aren't miserable you just want to fight with me. How the heck is that a judgement? How is asking not to be condescended to constantly and being talked to in a rude voice being judgmental? I've tried so hard with her, but she lies, she steals drugs, she lies about being on drugs, everyone else is wrong and she's always right--and always the victim. No one has it worse than her in her head. She told me that I shouldn't be concerned about being talked to meanly tonight because it "wasn't just me she was being mean to today"--she recognized that she was being mean but said it wasn't her fault because she had a bad day at work. In her head her reactions and actions aren't her responsibility--they're all to do with things she can't control, her health and her mental illnesses and what's happened to her. And it's hard not to compare when I have friends who have been through just as much terrible stuff as her and have emerged kind, caring, and loving. They have the same diagnoses as her, debilitating physical disabilities, and they don't treat me like crap. They treat me with kindness and respect, listen to me and support me.

I later tried to talk to her about my depression, and how it's been terrible lately, and she told me that we can't even compare our depressions because hers was SO much worse than mine. She finished that up with a "that's a sh*tty thing to say to you, but I said it." She then proceeded to talk about herself some more and how miserable her life is before I was done and said I had to go home. I should have left sooner but I had drunk enough alcohol that I needed to wait to drive.

It's hard because we've had good times, but when I look back it was just because we were both miserable and alone and we were on the same "level" of healing I suppose, and we had people to drink with and do stuff with. I don't want to do that anymore. I've tried so hard to see that she's just not there yet, and accept her for where she is, but I can't accept being talked down to constantly. I can't handle being torn apart to the point I sob in the middle of a bar, when I'm already struggling and could have used some kindness. I can accept her as she is if I never have to hang out with her one on one or talk to her extensively.

I just need to put it out there in the world so I can hold myself accountable for setting boundaries with her. I think I need to tell her how I feel too, and just leave it at we'll cordial, but I cannot and will not do this anymore.

 

[Vero]

I think we should try as much as we can to be surrounded by people who are kind, respectful and supportive. You shouldn't feel guilty for setting more boundaries with her.

 

[blackemerald1]

Yes, I can be judgmental.

But I'm learning to not be so much.

^This idea about 'not being judgmental' has been carried a little too far imo. It seems nobody is allowed to make judgements and I'm not sure that this is even possible. We all make judgements so being accused of it in a negative light seems to be a bit strange.

I reckon it's great to have an opinion, it's good to know where you stand, it's important to know where you draw the line and what is or isn't important to you. It's part of our survival code, to have judgements about almost everything that affects us...helps us to keep ourselves safe.

Simple example... I will not get into a car with a drunk driver... The judgements I might make about this are obvious so I won't write about them. Same goes with me making a judgement about thieves, violence, people who lose their temper etc. So ask yourself why are you too allowed to have judgements about so many things and not others? There is no reason - you are entitled to make judgements on anything. It's not bad.

So yay to being judgmental! It's probably saved your life already.

The alternative to this is where we make comment that somebody 'had poor judgement' regarding blah, blah....

So when somebody accuses you @Strangelongtrip of being judgemental - check yourself, check your opinion and if it's what you think, feel, suspect or god forbid just simply know. Say, "hell yes! That's my judgement of this situation or that person or that behaviour!"

It's what you do with your judgments and how they serve you that is more important. And always be open to a new way of viewing things, new judgements, new opinions. They are not necessarily wrong but perhaps different?

You've just related this relative is walking all over your sensibilities and you are judging her to be mean, thoughtless and insensitive. From what you've described it seems she is behaving badly towards you. So your judgement is spot on imo.

But now what to do about it? Is cutting the familial tie the only way to handle this?

It seems to me that whilst you have worked really hard on your own personal growth and whilst there may have been a time when you were both very onboard with sitting with each others misery and company, it's no longer appropriate for you. And that's so ok! You do get to decide!

Her one upmanship is really difficult to accept when your depression is so crushing. Clearly her perception of how you are was either only focused on herself and she was blinded to your situation or she simply lacks sufficient understanding. You know her best so you decide.

Growth can mean we have to leave behind people and things that no longer fit, are no longer good for us, no longer mean the same but it is at times, quite a lonely transition.

Whilst you can make changes for yourself you cannot make her move forward too. You may be right. You may need to leave her behind and seek out company that has that warmth you need.

Do you think that you have expectations that this relative is simply unable to meet?

They treat me with kindness and respect, listen to me and support me.

^Obviously you are capable of making and keeping these kinds of friends. So I'd encourage you to keep your eyes on that group of people and take comfort that you are worthy of kindness, respect, love and support.

I think I need to tell her how I feel too, and just leave it at we'll cordial, but I cannot and will not do this anymore.

^Give yourself some time - to cool down and to consider how you will say it to her.

Alcohol seems to blur the lines and words seem to cut deeper than they ever should. Perhaps don't see her when you've both been drinking and always have a dedicated way to get home no matter what.

Maybe she senses your different perspective, your new growth and she cannot match it... perhaps she is still stuck. So that gives good fodder for her to cut you down and cause you to second guess yourself. Being vulnerable is not a bad thing though it can be seen that way.

Ask yourself what she gets out of doing this and what it is that you get from interacting with her. That may help you define why she has such a destructive effect on you. Often we put up with famial connections well past what we tolerate from those who are not connected.

 

[Friday]

It tells me something when exercising good judgement? Is seen as the worst thing in the world, by someone.

 

[Strangelongtrip]

I think we should try as much as we can to be surrounded by people who are kind, respectful and supportive. You shouldn't feel guilty for setting more boundaries with her.

Thank you, yeah, it can be hard because sometimes she can be kind, but it's wrapped up in a mess of mean.

I reckon it's great to have an opinion, it's good to know where you stand, it's important to know where you draw the line and what is or isn't important to you. It's part of our survival code, to have judgements about almost everything that affects us...helps us to keep ourselves safe.

I guess my judgement is good then. I don't really trust her, I don't really feel like I can tell her things. Some things I've been able to but if it's about her she will turn in on me.

It's what you do with your judgments and how they serve you that is more important. And always be open to a new way of viewing things, new judgements, new opinions. They are not necessarily wrong but perhaps different?

I think keeping my judgements about her keeps me from going out and doing things like this that hurt me. Her and I even had a discussion about differing opinions that she got heated about then when I said why are you letting this bother you and make you miserable she further explained some other stuff. I guess the fact that I judge her for letting it bother her is not good, but I think it's because I don't feel like sitting and talking with someone who feels so slighted by every small transgression that all they do is complain about them. There's no positivity.

Alcohol seems to blur the lines and words seem to cut deeper than they ever should. Perhaps don't see her when you've both been drinking and always have a dedicated way to get home no matter what.

Maybe she senses your different perspective, your new growth and she cannot match it... perhaps she is still stuck. So that gives good fodder for her to cut you down and cause you to second guess yourself. Being vulnerable is not a bad thing though it can be seen that way.

I'm regretting the alcohol --hung over today and non fun to show for it. ? That second part is probably exactly it. She feels threatened. She can't handle what I tell her because it breaks her mold of how the world works.

It tells me something when exercising good judgement? Is seen as the worst thing in the world, by someone.

This. This. I think she can't handle judgements because if she were honest with herself about the fact that some judgements about her are right, she wouldn't be able to cope.

 

[Rani G2]

guess the fact that I judge her for letting it bother her is not good, but I think it's because I don't feel like sitting and talking with someone who feels so slighted by every small transgression that all they do is complain about them. There's no positivity.

@Strangelongtrip if this question „sounds“ as if it’s completely off-topic it’s ok to if you don’t want to answer (I‘m learning that here;)) When you express your opinion Do you look her in the Eye? I know that’s a strange question maybe, because we all have our different ways to communicate.

 

[LuckiLee]

I always think people like "that" (we all know them) should be holding a mirror in front of themselves while they speak. Their opinion tends to mean nothing to me. I'm not a fan of mean people therefore I wouldn't really socialize with them. If their family. Small doses.

I think it's a sign that you're getting healthy and realize that behavior is unacceptable. She may not fit into your healing journey. Something to ponder.

People help or hinder. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

Support from The Mitten State. ?

 

[Strangelongtrip]

if this question „sounds“ as if it’s completely off-topic it’s ok to if you don’t want to answer (I‘m learning that here;)) When you express your opinion Do you look her in the Eye? I know that’s a strange question maybe, because we all have our different ways to communicate.

I have trouble looking people in the eye but I try. I feel scared that if they don't like my opinion, they'll get in my face and if I can shield my expressions I'm safer. Some people I feel safe looking at them but if someone has a history of getting riled up I can't be that vulnerable.

I think it's a sign that you're getting healthy and realize that behavior is unacceptable. She may not fit into your healing journey. Something to ponder.

People help or hinder. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

This is a good point, thank you! That's dead on. Also thank you from the Old Line State ?.

 

[Strangelongtrip]

I did an even deeper dive into why her behavior bothers me so much. I think it’s because I was once at that point too, and I had (have) no compassion for that person I was. I have literally said “there’s no way for me to know what I’m doing wrong if people don’t tell me”. I hadn’t had self awareness figured out and I probably thought I WAS self aware. I would talk about how I was miserable all the time. My depression was just as bad as she described hers, but now it’s not anymore. I think that maybe makes her feel insecure. Instead of hanging on my anger I’m going to try to show compassion. I think I still need my space but I’m going to not be so angry.

 

[LuckiLee]

Nicely done. ? You can give compassion while setting boundaries for yourself.

 

[Ellabella44]

My mother was like that. I can't possibly feel as bad as she does etc because of her childhood experiences. Which she handed down to me. Though I'm terrified of seeing her or my step father and cut contact mainly because of that. I realize that she is at a place where she can't grow. I can't fit her mold of perfect since if I were to tell her I have CPTSD it would be a trauma contest. Not interested in playing that game. There are plenty of people that will play it and give her sympathy for it. But I can't feed her needs for attention anymore. Though I've been no contact I have grown as a person and left her standing where she was. If she won't accept your boundaries the best thing for you both might be some time apart. It takes a lot to cut ties. Especially when its family. Do what you feel is best for yourself.