Not sure how to define this - need feedback

[beaneeboo]

I get it. For me, I would look at it from the perspective that this child will eventually grow into an adult. And I think that most adults would agree that they understand that they would have to be removed from a situation where someone is repeatedly abusing both their mom and themselves. And that they would appreciate this in adulthood, even if they might not understand or it might cause some short-term harm in childhood.

I'm struggling with this concept for the same reason I struggle with seeing it as abusive. But I do see that, for my sons sake, I may need to strip everything down, pull it apart and be willing to reframe.

My son does struggle in many ways. And that's likely to di with the dynamics at home as well as his own issues. I'm also obviously a part of that. I'm just trying to gauge how much of a part his dad's anger and low tolerance and high frustration levels are a part of it. And whether it's my role to separate to take him away from that (my son) or if separation could do more damage.

My son would still see his dad but this time without me. He would have to deal with it on his own.

 

[beaneeboo]

Is he agreeing he needs to address this?

No. He is saying this is the normal for him because his parents were like this. He doesn't consider the impact on us at all. I also think he could be on the spectrum (should have mentioned that before).

We all have flaws, but we all need to take responsibility for them. If he can’t see anything wrong with his behaviour (and he really should, as he should be upset with himself, and how he treats you and his son), then there is little motivation for him to change.

I think this has definitely been the case. And because I haven't wanted to rock the boat further and can't deal with communication around these issues with him (also gets complicated with the DDNOS) he hasn't had any need to change. I do bring stuff up with him. He has listened and assessed some stuff. But ultimately its not been enough to break the pattern.

When we talked about this latest episode I really thought he would communicate how sorry he was genuinely. But his go to response was to explain and rationalise where he was coming from, why he raged and justify it. He got angry at me for suggesting he should apologise as he said I always 'trap him' in conversations to make him be the bad guy. I had to remind myself that this episode he raged and shouted as loud as he could very close to me and made really rude gestures infront of me and my son.

I did get angry back at him for the first time and this stopped him in his tracks.

this is you trying to solve the problem for everyone.

yes because I feel in our little triangle there's only me to rely on sorting it all out if I don't want to keep living like this

And sadly, it may boil down to what you think is the least worst option.

This is what I'm struggling getting perspective on

the best option is that your partner agrees to work on himself and changes.
if not, your options are staying as it is with him behaving like he does, and the risk this escalates too.
or leaving, and dealing with the fall out from that and helping your child through it.

Yes 100% that's it

I’m sorry you’re going through this and I’m sorry your partner isn’t taking responsibility.

Thank you for your support

 

[beaneeboo]

i don't care to opine on your relationship, beeneeboo, but my own partner and i have had more names than i care to count for the list of yaddah blahs you covered here. we've danced many a round in the 43 years he has done his best to support me through realities which are hard to discuss in a therapy support group of equally affected people who have lived through the yaddahs of the ptsd blahs.

the name which seems to be working for us lately is, "the egg shell waltz." lately we've been sweeping away those egg shells and -miracle of miracles- he seems to be learning how to listen instead of running for his toolbox for screwdrivers to tighten the loose screws. gee. . . why would i get angry about screwdrivers in my ear?

but that is me and each relationship is even more unique than the individuals who are relating.

steadying support while you sort your own.

Thank you @arfie ... you're essentially another 20 years down the line in your partnership than I amand are someone who has stayed and can look back and give your perspective... thank you for sharing this and I'm happy you guys are sorting through your stuff this far down the line... there is hope!

 

[LuckiLee]

If he isn't willing to put in the work, get therapy and anger management?? Nothing will change. It may even escalate.

I feel you should make your decision based on your son's safety and happiness. He doesn't deserve any of this and it is going to change the person he is meant to be.

Your husband says it's normal because his parents were like this. Well, the same can happen to your son. Do you want him to think it's ok to treat the people he "loves' like this?? It won't be long before he starts treating you the same way.

This is just my opinion but I feel for your son. He has no choice in this situation. You
do.

Can you get into counseling to have someone to help you through this??

Good luck!

 

[beaneeboo]

If he isn't willing to put in the work, get therapy and anger management?? Nothing will change. It may even escalate.

I think it could change in that it happens less. But I agree without anger management he won't be able to control it completely.

I think he may be on the spectrum. Doesn't excuse it but that may explain his lack of awareness (despite my feedback).

He's also from a different county / culture where I guess you could say this is more normalised.

I'm not making excuses for his behaviour but I think anyone who's been in these situations knows it's so so complex and there are many layers.

I feel you should make your decision based on your son's safety and happiness. He doesn't deserve any of this and it is going to change the person he is meant to be.

I agree. But separating can also change the person you're meant to be. And so I feel I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Your husband says it's normal because his parents were like this. Well, the same can happen to your son. Do you want him to think it's ok to treat the people he "loves' like this?? It won't be long before he starts treating you the same way.

No I I don't want him to think that. It's actually not my responsibility- it's my husband's. But it is my responsibility to guide my son through it as safely as possible. I've let him know that it's not acceptable. That the people we love especially shouldn't make us feel that way. That it's not justified. I've explained what generational trauma is to him. And I've let him know none of it is his fault and to come to me to talk about it at any time. I'm also trying to moderate conversations about it between us all when my partner is able to do this to highlight to my son it's not him and to try to get my partner to openly acknowledge this. And I think he has and apologised to my son etc.

The hard part is despite some of the effort my partner puts in, i know given the right concoction of circumstances, it can happen again (this behaviours which being anywhere along the spectrum).

This is just my opinion but I feel for your son. He has no choice in this situation. You
do.

I agree. But that choice is not clear cut. And that's what I'm struggling with.

Can you get into counseling to have someone to help you through this??

I have a therapist. And I will try to bring this up with him if I can remember. I'll use this thread hopefully to remind me of details.

Good luck!

Thank you for your in put

 

[beaneeboo]

Should also mention - this is important - I'm very reliant on my husband financially. My mental health has been such over the past while that I'm managing about 30% ofwork or less than I did before. If we separated the change would be very destabilizing which may impact greatly on my mental health- at least in the short term. And may increase my dissociative symptoms which has happened before under stress.

In many ways I have little choice. I can separate but I'm not well equipped to deal with it.

 

[LuckiLee]

Boundaries.

My guy occasionally gets like this and I don't engage. I leave the room, restaurant, party, house. Every. Time.

He knows I won't tolerate it anymore. If he wants to address something, he knows he must calm his azz down before I will reply.

It doesn't sound like he thinks it's a problem. And if that's the case??? It's all up to you.

 

[beaneeboo]

Boundaries.

You're right. I need to work on this.

My guy occasionally gets like this and I don't engage. I leave the room, restaurant, party, house. Every. Time.

He knows I won't tolerate it anymore. If he wants to address something, he knows he must calm his azz down before I will reply.

Good. Well done.

I'll try this too.

It doesn't sound like he thinks it's a problem. And if that's the case??? It's all up to you.

Thank you for being so honest.

I guess I don't want to face this. But it's fast becoming a reality.

 

[LuckiLee]

Is he the father of your son?

 

[beaneeboo]

Is he the father of your son?

Yes

 

[arfie]

someone who has stayed and can look back and give your perspective...

there's a little birdie sitting on my shoulder, saying i should add that we haven't spent all of those 43 years with a shared address. increasing our social distance helped tremendously during some of our rougher stretches. i'm afraid to ask the love of my life, but i earnestly believe our longer distance communications, phone, email, etc., were far more productive than his attempts to **fix** me.

family is bigger than a shared address. hold the love sacred, especially when it gets ugly. it's a whole heap easier to marry the one you love than it is to love the one you marry.

 

[LuckiLee]

I had to have multiple conversations with my guy about this very topic, when he was in a good place mentally. I told him what I was going to do when it happened again. I told him I would remove myself from the situation immediately.

At first I didn't think it was working because it was still happening. But, it didn't take long for him to realize I wasn't playing around and if it didn't stop I would eventually leave. Forever. I also learned to not take it personally. It was ptsd brain in overload.

The difference , I think is my guy knew he was being a complete jack-ass. He knew he was out of control in these moments and was determined to fix it. He's a combat veteran and doesn't have a "flight response" . He's always in fight mode. Works well in combat but not relationships.

J (My guy) and I work really hard to keep this relationship going. He especially works hard as he's in therapy and doesn't want to be "that guy" anymore so he is doing everything he can to do/be better. Your guy deserves to heal too. It isn't easy but so worth it. We're a work in progress.

As for me?? I have a few close friends that I turn to for support and fun. Two of them have ptsd so they understand how hard it is. I also have my family for support. They are the best! When I'm down they lift me up. The funniest people I know. They only know the basics though. They know he has ptsd and struggles in certain situations. And they know he suffered a lot in combat. These people are my lifeline. Even if they don't know it. You need a support system of your own.

Keep trying to convince him he needs to get into therapy or anger management. Something. You can't be responsible for his mental health. Until then work on you and support your kiddo.