Not sure when to give up

[Justmehere]

A large agency that is a bit of the safety net, with a PTSD focused clinic, offered care.

It was a shit show for two months getting scheduled. Then I had care for 6 weeks, it was good. Almost worth the shit show. Then the last two weeks have been an absolute disaster. In 14 days my appointments were scheduled and canceled by staff (not me) over 30 times. My doctor called in meds I’m allergic too, twice. The leading staffer who offered to be (and was) my therpaist quit without warning as I was walking out the door and then set me up with someone else but therapists on me 3 times in one week (I never saw any of them.)

This leading staffer (on their leadership team) is using her position badly.

I gave up on scheduling care. Mostly gave up on them. But ended up going to the walk in counseling clinic juts to keep myself breathing. This leading staffer implemented a rule if I go to the walk in center, a timer is to be set for 45 minutes from when I walk in the door, and at 45 minutes I am to be hospitalized or told to leave. Period. No exceptions

The average wait time to see a clinical staffer at the qlak in center is about 2 hours. Walk in center staff broke the rule she set to see me. Said it was clinical malpractice if they did what their boss told them to do. It actually went well to talk to them.

It was also communicated that this leader of the agency / my former therapist told them that if someone associated with me, like a family or friend, sought help, for any reason, I am to be barred access for 2 days.

?!?!?

I was told by staff they don’t agree, this is insane, this is their boss, they will be pleading for change.

The leader has offered to meet with me and discuss the changes I would like in my “treatment” which is currently only whatever I get at the walk in clinic. Because she will promise care and then cancel it without explanation, I don’t schedule anything. Why.

They have also stated I could meet with the doctor that efffffffed up med management to kingdom come.

These two meetings would be tomorrow. A staffer who said what is happening to me, what they did to me, is “unfair” and “not clinically sound” is offering to be there with me and has leadership approval to be there.

I don’t have other options for help coming together soon. What I wanted was to be in treatment with the PTSD center. What I got was a disaster.

After significant losses including deaths of a family member and a friend, I’m beyond depressed. Never been so depressed.

I wrote the leader an outline of the issues. They haven’t solved anything.

Instead the leader is offering to meet tomorrow with me and the staff who is clear TO ME what they have done is wrong. Is she going to have the backbone to say it to her boss? Extremely unlikely.

I don’t know if I go.

I don’t know what to say. Like, stop effing up please?

—

My other option is to send the letter to the entire agency leadership. Will that lead to good outcomes for me? Unsure.

Or to just give up on getting help. I’m so depressed, I am not sure how long that’s a good idea.

 

[Friday]

I don’t know if I go.

I don’t know what to say. Like, stop effing up please?

I don’t think it matters so much what you say?

If you don’t go, then in the future they have a “We tried to meet with you to discuss changes/problems/solutions/etc. and you didn’t show up.” and that’s a blank check for them to discontinue care, bar you from the walk-in clinic, 5150 handoff, whatever they want & sky is the limit. Including discrediting any letter you might send to the wider organization.

JUST by going? Whether it goes well, or goes badly, you’ve ticked the credibility box.

- If it goes badly, you have more for your letter, including a witness.
- If it goes well, then things will improve. Or at least have the potential to improve.

Win/Win

 

[Justmehere]

Really good point!

 

[arfie]

when i find myself trapped in a shit storm --or a shit storm season such as you seem to have hit-- i keep my head down and just keep stepping through whatever life sends my way. therapy SNAFUs, loss of loved ones, etc., etc., all too often happen all at once and there is no graceful way through. just keep stepping. one foot in front of the other.

My other option is to send the letter to the entire agency leadership.

in my own experience, letters addressed to multiple people go nowhere. the best help always seems to come one-on-one.

i'll second @Friday 's notion on the wisdom of showing up for the meeting you already have set up. insert yogi berra quote here: "it ain't over till it's over."

steadying support while you work your way through the quagmire. itsy bitsy baby steps.

 

[Charbella]

I agree with @Friday the only thing I’d include is if you have anyone you can take with you because taking someone from the center doesn’t scream witness to the conversation to me it screams witness to whatever they might want to do. If you don’t have anyone maybe ask at the beginning before you start of their comfortable with you recording the conversation, you can easily do that with your phone and if they refuse to me that says they don’t have your best interest in mind.

 

[Justmehere]

I’ve told them my concerns. They have a chance to make it right or dig deeper.

I’ll go in and see what the doc and the staffer on the leadership team have to say.

I don’t have someone outside rhe org to bring with me - that would be a really good idea. I can record them, with or without permission in my area (not legal everywhere) but I like the idea of being upfront and asking tor permission to record. So I can remember and review later.

If they ask me what I want to talk about or my goals, which I somewhat expect, I will pull up my letter.

I’m a little nervous. But probably better to go.

 

[Justmehere]

Just had the appontment with the doctor.

The therapist that was going to be there wasn’t there. Personal emergency,

Someone I have never met walked in and sat down with the doctor and myself and said they were there as a supervisor to advocate for me, They did not ask if I consented to this. I requested what is called in my area their “disclosure notice” and to know their name. They refused to indicate their last name or explain their role. My area requires any therapist that has client contact of any type provides this notice upon initial contact before any service provision so that I as a patient can know who is treating me, their license, and what the law says is inappropriate behavior they can’t engage in and where to file a complaint:

They refused to state their last name and provide this notice. The doctor started to talk to someone else on the phone (I missed what that was about) and this therapist told me she has an LCSW license, and to stop talking she has to listen to the doctor on the phone.

I told her that if she is going to be in my appointment I need to know who she and her role. She told me she didn’t have to provide the notice because she is there as a therapist to “advocate for your needs” with the doctor but not to provide therapy.

I pulled up the state law and showed it to her, read it out loud, noted there are no exemptions. Even freaking life coaches have to give this notice in my state. To be in contact with me as a client and refuse this notice isn’t demonstrating someone who is advocating for my needs.

She continued to refuse and told me point blank if I asked for it again, she would terminate access to medication management. Doctor got off the phone and said the same.

I told them I don’t know who this perosn is and what their role is. I don’t feel safe discussing mental health with this person I don’t know. I would prefer it if she left.

She left, sort of. She stood at the door, open, for a time.

The doctor then again repeated rhe ultimatum. i talked the doctor down. I explained hey, you are a doc and you are ironically enough not under this rule all therapists are under so you may not know about it. I showed the doc the rule. Doc called down. Said well one notice applies to all (which is interesting bullshit but bullshit none the less.) Doc calmed down. Asked me what I wanted to do with medications. She made it clear she was not there to discuss any problems or anything but medications. She also indicated she had not read my letter as we have no agreement she would read a letter I wrote.

The whole thing was just wild.

I recorded it. I never asked for permission because I was too busy staying very chill while having an unknown person jump in.

Doc prescribed meds (don’t plan to take them.)

When I asked what do I do about the other matters I was told to talk to her about, she said it wasn’t her problem to address or solve - including the problem of everyone directing me to her to address all-the-things.

I find this wildly anxiety producing but also funny. Because like wtf, thanks guys for like breaking local laws to advocate for me and tell me to stop talking when I ask who you are. Like they made my case for me in my future letter and whatever I do with this shir storm.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm not sure @Justmehere but sounds like you did great, and are far too informed of your rights than they'd prefer. Idk how it works there, but I would run not walk away from such a group. Even hearing about it breaks my heart for you and gives me the creeps. Others will respond who have more knowledge, but just know they are not your last source of hope or healing. (Though this may require a temporary detour).

I think people with those attitudes should work with numbers. Hugs to you xoxox.

 

[Justmehere]

The second meeting was useless… they required a third.

That was nearly traumatic. Long story short, they have someone who is a client/staff (which uh, weird?) who came up and ripped into me and my trauma history for 20 minutes in the hall as I sat there quietly recording it. Then later a therapist - the new one they want me to do therapy with - burst into a medical appointment and demanded we move the convo to the sidewalk.

Outside. In front of men. About a female health issue. Doc didn’t ask for this. I didn’t. I asked for clinical justification and none was given. I was told either do it or an ambulance will be called.

I asked what is the clinical justification for an ambulance? None given. I walked out and the doc and I just rescheduled for the next day.

They have now changed the plan again.

I skipped the detailed letter to the leadership other than a brief one and to say I won’t be doing services with the client who is also staff due to calling me numerous (cell phone recorded) insults in public. I also told them that the therapist that gave no clinical basis to demand my private health care occur on a sidewalk will also not be given any personal info about me.

I wrote government regulator. We met this morning. I sent them the recording of the insults and demand to move healthcare public. I explained some of the other bizarre crap.

They will be sending staff to investigate this week and next week…

Because apparently this is wildly weird shit and freaked even them out to hear.

At least someone here had a sane response to the insanity.

I am told I have to attend the session with sidewalk-or-ambulance-therapist tomorrow. Also that she is now my therapist AND case manager. Wtf. Kay uh no. I told them I will attend but won’t give her any info about my life since privacy isn’t her priority. I’m only going because the gov regulator is now getting involved. But no, not giving her private info.

I’m calmer today after setting the boundary. Maybe the gov regulator has solutions.

 

[No More]

Question - why are you still engaging with these people? They sound incompetent to the point of being dangerous? I get you have a right to good & fair care here but for the sake of your own sanity, is it possible to move to different therapists/doctor/provider?

 

[Movingforward10]

It's really difficult to understand what their motive is. It's like they have made decisions about you without you and nothing (i.e. you and your voice, opinion, take on things) will steer them in another direction.

Have you asked to see your notes?

The medication the doc prescribed for you that you said you won't take, no need to answer this, but I wondered what your decision for not taking it was. I.e.Have they diagnosed you with something you don't agree with. And in that case, is it possible to get a second opinion and a second opinion that has no relationship at all to these 'care' providers?

 

[whiteraven]

JUST by going? Whether it goes well, or goes badly, you’ve ticked the credibility box.

- If it goes badly, you have more for your letter, including a witness.
- If it goes well, then things will improve. Or at least have the potential to improve.

Win/Win

Hm...or, if it were me, additional trauma, because bad or dismissive healthcare does that to me. I have been through similar disasters, and it ONLY resulted in weeks of trying to recover and a deepening of the distrust I already have.

I guess it could go ok, but for some of us...no.

I would run not walk away from such a group

This. They are breaking the law, creating more problems than solutions, and it sounds like this is just how they operate, so they likely will not stop.

To add to leaving, I'd report the hell out of them, individually and as a group. To whomever I could and loudly.

I wrote government regulator.

Oh, good. I'm glad to hear they seem to have taken the issue seriously. I typically get no reply when I write to that level.

why are you still engaging with these people?

Yeah...my question, as well. I get that they are PTSD-focused, but clearly they suck at it.

I hope you can find a suitable resolution!