Sexual Assault Overreacting?

[Friday]

May I ask why you're so focused on that detail?

Because these are the two instances you asked us, a random selection of people online, to weigh in against.

She laid her head on your shoulder, and she kissed you, and stopped. She did. NOTHING followed past kissing. As she realized you weren’t into it. And broke off. Two separate incidents. YOU are the one who is f*cked up, here. Not her. SHE acted/reacted in completely normal ways. YOU are the one that is being mental.

As?

She is CLEARLY a violent sexual predator… or… not? And? Not.

What SHE did? Is toooootally normal.

You’re the one who responded badly. To completely normal things.

And who is now responding even worse, attempting to garner support for NOTHING. Zip. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

You didn’t like her, and broke up with her. And are now? Attempting to crucify her, because she wasn’t what you needed & wanted?!?

Absolutely nothing you have described is sexual assault. Nothing. A whole helluva lot has been you being seriously f*cked up over completely normal things… which? Is VERY worth looking into / dealing with / etc. but that’s all you stuff, not her stuff. As in you went seeeeeriousky sideways over completely normal / innocent (not criminal) acts. Why??? There’s nearly always a reason. But one does have to shift the blame off the bunny rabbit to the wolf. Or keep shifting blame onto the bunny and get met with… the f*ck is wrong with you?!?

You? And people like you? Are the reason the conviction rate for rape and sexual assault is at 3%.

Pure. And. Utter. Bullshit.

She kissed you, but your eyes were closed? She laid her head on your shoulder, in public, after a taxing family ordeal? And you think EITHER/BOTH of these are sexual assault? I hope you never experience true sexual assault to realize how f*cking wrong you are, but simply pull your head out of your own ass. Because right now? It’s so far up your ass, that little bump in your throat, is your nose.

If there is sexual assault in your history? She’s not the one to blame. You CHOOSING her to blame, only underscores how innocent she is, in your life. As SHE? Did. Nothing. Wrong. So who is really to blame?

 

[anon.co]

She laid her head on your shoulder, and she kissed you, and stopped. She did. NOTHING followed past kissing. As she realized you weren’t into it. And broke off. Two separate incidents. YOU are the one who is f*cked up, here. Not her. SHE acted/reacted in completely normal ways. YOU are the one that is being mental.

Hi, Friday. Please refer to the information I've detailed in my previous (and current) replies.

"NOTHING followed past kissing." That's incorrect. You weren't there. Even I don't remember what happened after the second/third time that I pulled away. "As she realized you weren’t into it. And broke off." She did not break off. As for what happened during, I've already responded to you about this. I verbalized my discomfort—meaning I told her I was uncomfortable—, pulled away multiple times, and she continued kissing me. She did not stop.

This went on for some time before she finally left. As I said, to make it clear, she left after some time. Not right after I pulled away. Some time after I pulled away. So the last time that I remember pulling away, she continued for however long, then left. And again, as I said before, she did not realize I wasn't "into it." Someone shouldn't have to pull away from a sexual act multiple times for another to realize they're not 100% comfortable with the act. She clearly didn't after the last time I pulled away.

If you claim otherwise, you're not just wrong—you’re making baseless assumptions about my experience. If you have any questions, please ask. You don't have to assume.

What SHE did? Is toooootally normal.

That's interesting. Personally, I don't think I'd continue kissing someone after they pull away repeatedly from me and say they're uncomfortable. But that's just me. If you think that's normal, then to each their own.

She kissed you, but your eyes were closed? She laid her head on your shoulder, in public, after a taxing family ordeal? And you think EITHER/BOTH of these are sexual assault?

Did you mean my "eyes were closed" metaphorically? or physically? if you mean physically, it's an interesting detail you brought up despite me never mentioning anything about my eyes.

I never said she laid her head on my shoulder "in public." Interestingly, I actually made it clear where she did this. Either way, it's an insignificant detail; however, It's clear you still have not looked over the information in my replies. As I've said before, please refer to the original post and thread.

If there is sexual assault in your history? She’s not the one to blame. You CHOOSING her to blame, only underscores how innocent she is, in your life. As SHE? Did. Nothing. Wrong. So who is really to blame?

Again, she has done other things that went well against my consent. I'm not going to discuss these things because I have much more clarity about them compared to the two events I've gone into detail about. She wasn't someone "innocent" in my life. I'd like to add that you emphasized in your first reply that the two events happened while we were in a relationship. I hope you're aware that sexual assault can occur in relationships. To make it clear (since you keep misinterpreting my replies), I'm not saying what she did is sexual assault. I'm simply saying that given your insistent emphasis on the fact me and my ex were in a relationship, it's important to acknowledge that sexual assault can still occur in relationships.

You didn’t like her, and broke up with her. And are now? Attempting to crucify her, because she wasn’t what you needed & wanted?!?

A good rule: If you find yourself assuming or fabricating details in someone else’s story, there may be a personal lack of clarity you need to look into. Or it may be worth reflecting on why you feel the need to do so. For example, you can apply this rule to a statement such as: "You CHOOSING her to blame, only underscores how innocent she is, in your life." Another example: "She laid her head on your shoulder, and she kissed you, and stopped. She did. NOTHING followed past kissing. As she realized you weren’t into it. And broke off." And a final example: "She laid her head on your shoulder, in public, after a taxing family ordeal?" If you need further clarification on how to apply this principle, please let me know.

Because these are the two instances you asked us, a random selection of people online, to weigh in against.

She laid her head on your shoulder, and she kissed you, and stopped.

I’ll ask again: Why do you keep fixating on the irrelevant detail of her laying her head on my shoulder? I never claimed that was assault, nor do I believe it was. It was just something I mentioned so it might help give a clear idea of the rest of the story. You keep bringing it up, yet continue to ignore the key details I actually emphasized.

You? And people like you? Are the reason the conviction rate for rape and sexual assault is at 3%.

Small correction: Given that the rate of false reports of sexual assault is 2-8%, it'd be more reasonable to attribute these issues to the justice system.

 

[Charbella]

Small correction: Given that the rate of false reports of sexual assault is 2-8%, it'd be more reasonable to attribute these issues to the justice system.

No, no it is absolutely not. It’s because people say things like someone kissed me and continued to kiss me when I didn’t like it and mentioned it and they’re wondering if it’s sexual assault! It’s an asshole move? For sure. But when people say things like this and are talking about pressing charges then when people like me who was abused for 5 years as a child comes forward they are put through hell. Rape exam, multiple interviews, a county attorney coming back several times asking for more detail, a lie detector test all for a man who’d already been convicted of the same thing with a different victim. Why? Because stupid girls make asinine comments about being ASSAULTED by a kiss, with someone they’re in a relationship with. Then the general public who sits on juries has you’re stupid words in their ears when they question are the rest of us just blowing it out of proportion or lying so the system puts actual victims through hell. Do not compare yourself to a DV victim.

One of two things are at play here in my opinion either you’re a petty jerk OR you’ve actually been assaulted in your past and you’re taking it out on them. If you’re attempting to convince us this is just the icing on the cake FFS tell us the cake. Don’t lead into the story with a kiss! I believe Friday is attempting to say it wasn’t a kiss and groping, or sex, or some OTHER actual assault.

You asked if you’re overreacting. About the kiss, hell yes, about the head on the shoulder hell yes. If you have something real you’re vaguely referencing either share it or stop referencing it because at this point it isn’t evidence because the evidence provided was a KISS and a HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDER!

 

[anon.co]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I do agree and feel that what I wrote in my original post was an overreaction.

Because stupid girls make asinine comments about being ASSAULTED by a kiss, with someone they’re in a relationship with.

1. By "stupid girls," are you referring to me or a certain group of people?
2. Consent for sexual acts matters, even in relationships. To add on, someone doesn't need to experience extreme trauma/violence for their boundaries to matter.
3. I'm willing to listen and this is a genuine question. Is kissing not a sexual act? There was another individual in the thread who did believe what I described is sexual assault. I want to understand everyone's opinions.
- A hypothetical and genuine question: If I kiss my partner and they tell me they're uncomfortable, and I continue to kiss them, it's not sexual assault?

I believe Friday is attempting to say it wasn’t a kiss and groping, or sex, or some OTHER actual assault.

I don't really understand what you meant by this, especially based on what I understood from Friday's reply. Can you please explain?

If you have something real you’re vaguely referencing either share it or stop referencing it because at this point it isn’t evidence because the evidence provided was a KISS and a HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDER!

Her laying her head on my shoulder isn't meant to be some form of evidence. I believe I've said this multiple times, and even in my original post, I did not intend to say that it was (evidence/an act of S.A.). Either way, I did not mean to imply that my ex laying her head on my shoulder was assault, and I apologize for giving that impression.

 

[Charbella]

A hypothetical and genuine question: If I kiss my partner and they tell me they're uncomfortable, and I continue to kiss them, it's not sexual assault?

No, no I do not. I think kissing is a precursor to actual assault sometimes. I think if it’s a child or a stranger or some guy I have zero relationship with it is. I think you being uncomfortable is valid, I think she’s a jerk for not stopping when you asked. I also think you should’ve walked away. If DV is going on then I get that this could be assault. Did she hold you there? What kept you from walking away from her? Btw I’d murder anyone who asked that of me or another sexual assault victim. The fact this is your girlfriend says A LOT. Think about what gets a conviction for sexual assault, do you think your incident rises to those levels? Maybe she held you there and you’re leaving it out otherwise two consenting (as in legally able) who are in a relationship, I’d say there would have to be more evidence just the kiss on its own, nope

I don't really understand what you meant by this, especially based on what I understood from Friday's reply. Can you please explain?

Kiss on its own=no assault
Kiss + groping=assault
Kiss + other assault =assault.

Are you using assault as a euphemism? A dictionary definition or a legal term. I still say your question was are you over reacting? Yes

Either way, I did not mean to imply that my ex laying her head on my shoulder was assault, and I apologize for giving that impression.

What did you want us to do with the information!

 

[Movingforward10]

What is sexual assault?

Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner – or makes that person take part in sexual activity with them – without consent.

rapecrisis.org.uk

So rape crisis says unwanted kissing is sexual assault.

The lack of convictions for any sexual assault and rape (and in the UK the rape conviction rate is 1.7% of those that went to trial: so essentially people can rape freely in the UK), is not fair to attribute to this thread. We don't know everyone's full story and we only know the bits people share.
There is over reaction here by OP in the second example given (in my opinion), but that's PTSD isn't it? Being triggered is an over reaction and we then see things that aren't there.
Every one of us on here has done that in some shape some how.

 

[anon.co]

No, no I do not. I think kissing is a precursor to actual assault sometimes. I think if it’s a child or a stranger or some guy I have zero relationship with it is. I think you being uncomfortable is valid, I think she’s a jerk for not stopping when you asked.

So a relationship has a determining factor in this? My understanding is that any form of a sexual/intimate act done without consent— especially an explicit lack of consent—is S.A. Also going back to the hypothetical: If someone expresses discomfort with a kiss, no matter who’s doing it, it seems like the lack of consent should be the determining factor. Could you explain why a title of a relationship changes what is/isn't SA?

Even if it's not assault when done by a partner, what about the effects of the actions? In both cases, if trauma is formed as a result, is it still not SA if it was done in a relationship?

The fact this is your girlfriend says A LOT.

What do you mean?

 

[Charbella]

Even if it's not assault when done by a partner, what about the effects of the actions? In both cases, if trauma is formed as a result, is it still not SA if it was done in a relationship?

I think we have to agree to disagree here. I wouldn’t call it an assault, no matter what the legal definition may or may not be. Personally yes I would be horribly traumatized by this BUT not because my girlfriend thought she was being playful or what ever it is (you should ask, intent matters), it would be because I have been assaulted, it would be my past rearing its head. I would have flashbacks of my uncle or GG doing it, and what followed.

What do you mean?

I mean if my girlfriend did it after I’d said no, we wouldn’t be in a relationship anymore. It wouldn’t be because she assaulted me, it would be because she ignored my boundary, she didn’t care about my feelings. See I don’t disagree that the situation was shitty, nor that you were wronged, I think you’re overreacting to call it assault in the I’m going to ask charges be drawn up. I mean technically, legally lots of things are considered assault, but the fact no one goes to the police about it shows it’s an overreaction. One I’d have, but understand is my past speaking.

 

[Jade-]

Hey @anon.co

Sometimes when my current bf kisses me it feels like assault and there's been plenty of times I have pushed him away, have told him to stop and have even got upset with him. There's also been times he hasn't stopped, not because he was assaulting me but because in the moment he wasn't aware of what I was feeling.

Sometimes his head on my shoulder or rubbing on me feels like assault. Sometimes I feel I have been assaulted by a certain way he looks at me or speaks to me. Sometimes just being within 10 feet of him feels like assault.

Does the way I feel mean that I have indeed been sexually assaulted by him? No, not at all, it just means I have experienced actual assault in the past and these current things are triggering those past sexual assaults. I am not saying that you have experienced actual sexual assault in the past but I really do feel it's worth seeing a therapist to understand why you think and feel the way you do, it's really not normal to consider what you experienced with your ex as sexual assault and consider taking legal action.

This thread would have gone so different and more in your favor if you had said the things your ex did caused you to feel you were assaulted and exploring that rather than debating and trying to convince a PTSD site that those things are in themselves actual assault.

 

[anon.co]

I mean if my girlfriend did it after I’d said no, we wouldn’t be in a relationship anymore. It wouldn’t be because she assaulted me, it would be because she ignored my boundary, she didn’t care about my feelings.

Okay, I understand what you're saying now.

I think we have to agree to disagree here. I wouldn’t call it an assault, no matter what the legal definition may or may not be.

Yes, I do think we have to agree to disagree here. I'm willing to listen if someone thinks it's not assault, but at the moment I'm also considering other discussions and definitions I've found for both SA & consent (e.g. I'm aware Movingforward10 provided a website). (Small note since it was brought up: whatever my situation is considered, I don't plan on pressing charges.) But genuinely, I'm grateful you took the time to reply. I appreciate your perspective and I found points worth reflecting on.

 

[anon.co]

Sometimes when my current bf kisses me it feels like assault and there's been plenty of times I have pushed him away, have told him to stop and have even got upset with him. There's also been times he hasn't stopped, not because he was assaulting me but because in the moment he wasn't aware of what I was feeling.

I'll definitely be looking into the thoughts/feelings I had regarding the second thing from my original post.

I have a question that comes from a concern with my understanding of consent/assault. Given what you explained, would it be considered assault if he was fully aware of what you were feeling but continued kissing you?

I'm asking this because my ex did not stop kissing me even after I pulled away multiple times and told her I was uncomfortable. I'm also asking because I noticed you said, "There's also been times he hasn't stopped, not because he was assaulting me but because in the moment [he wasn't aware of what I was feeling.]" As a hypothetical for what I'm trying to understand, would it then be assault if he did know what you were feeling but chose to continue?

 

[Dark.Green.Feathers]

Legalities aside (I do not want to take part in the debate), it does feel violating to be engaged with intimately without consent. Actions do not have to be illegal to harm you or be wrong.
From personal experience with my ex, being made out with forcefully/without consent/after expressing desire to or trying to exit, definitely feels like assault to me; those sorts of things surrounded or came alongside my abuse.

Continuing to kiss (or whatever) someone after being communicated with that they aren’t comfortable and want it to stop, is, pretty unarguably, not right or kind.

I know someone else who was kissed un-consensually, no sexual trauma history, he still finds things in that area upsetting and anxiety inducing, regardless of what we’re going to call it, etc. I still find it anxiety inducing.

If we abided only by the law/legal definition, all sorts of lying would be perfectly fine, but we all know manipulative lies can and do ruin important parts of peoples lives. Defined by law? No. Harmful? Yes. Adultery is not a crime in the UK, but undoubtedly the betrayal deeply hurts people in a number of ways. Nobody (reasonable) is saying cheating is right or harmless. Same with a bunch of other things.

9/10 people probably won’t leave that incident not caring. I know you’ve clarified your stance on taking legal action, but I have similar stance to everyone else that it was drastic, especially with how court for everything in the sexual realm is already a clustercuss even in the most traumatic cases, and I doubt it would actually change anything for the better if -hypothetically- there was a successful trial against her.

As for the sexual caressing? I could see myself having a similar level of stress. Given my history, I can read a great deal as being felt up. I’ve had anxiety attacks over hand-touches, gotten hyperviligant seeing leg-touching, because my brain has been informed in such a way that stroking = sexual danger. Does not matter the intention, that is how it’s perceived.
But, importantly, that is how I feel; Not necessarily what is happening. Objectively, the hand-stroking? Was a gesture of comfort. Was I wrong for feeling anxious? No, I couldn’t help it. Should that person do it again after finding out it made me uncomfortable? No. But I can’t be mad about it happening or try to pin intent on the person doing it. It could have held sexual connotation in another context, sure. But it wasn’t.
That's some of my experience. Yours could have been sexual, maybe it was, or maybe it was misinterpreted. Not assault, but the reason you feel that way would be worth investigating. Not to induce guilt but understanding, so you can navigate other situations better yourself and better understand your inner workings.

Do you have a trauma history? Sexual or otherwsie. We ask because these are very traumacentric responses. I am sexually (and non-sexualy) traumatised, and this is similar to how I (or have) think. I have a part (or two) who was convinced that xyz uncomfortable actions done by a family member were pedophilic. Fully convinced. In hindsight, while they were uncomfortable, were not pedophilic. Now with age and increased introspection, we can get more perspective on feelings and perceptions of events.

Feeling certain ways is not wrong, but what we do with those feelings does matter, and we can prevent our own healing by following without question, just as much as ignoring and shoving/locking away can.