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Parents Treating Me Like I'm Well

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I haven't read any responses.

They don't get it and they never will. You will continue to try and win their love until you get to the point where you're tired of banging your head against that proverbial wall. Long/short, they won't change.
 
@DMerish They wouldn't say so, but I do think by "demure" I mean... More complacent than compliant. I lived my whole life being an abnormally obedient child. I think it has a lot to do with the abuse I suffered and my relationship with my abuser. I think they miss that girl and I'm trying to prove to myself that I don't have to be that person to be loved.

Complacent? That's a bad word in my dictionary. And you're right, you don't have to be that person to be loved. You need your own life - one that's surrounded with love, kindness and compassion. You deserve it.

"[DLMURL="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nelsonmand391070.html"]There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living.[/DLMURL]"
[DLMURL="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nelsonmand391070.html"]Nelson Mandela[/DLMURL]
 
I was also a highly obedient child. I started figuring out that I probably was emotionally punished for being angry, even before I could speak. And that played out yet again the other day on the phone. I was trying to tell my mother how much suffering I'm going through, how I have problems and I need to work on them, and she started getting all invalidating with "but everyone who comes in contact with you thinks you are wonderful and sweet!" So I responded with sheer anger. I'm pretty sure she's still brooding three days later.

Complacent. Compliant. The good girl.

Eff that, I think. It is definitely the case that you don't have to be that person.
My dearest therapist of years ago once said, "Maybe consider what a good thing it would be if you became a raging bi7ch occasionally?" :unsure: Something like that. It made a lot of sense. Anger can be really productive.

Not conforming to everyone's expectations of who we're supposed to be can be really really healthy. Uncomfortable yes, but necessary to our growth.
 
@presentjoy It can be really rather scary to break that exterior sweetness. Sometimes I forget how much or how little people know of who I really am. My best friend and I were talking the other day about this girl I loathed as a teenager, and he was like, "She was terrified of you! She called me once because you were in the same mall and she didn't know what to do." I laughed and said, "Me? But I'm little and squishy." And he gave me this look and said, "Yeah, and much more imposing when you're angry." I was sort of shocked to remember that he knew what I was like when I was truly angry, that that was something with real power I could put out.

This is a real issue I have with my parents. A big part of me wants them to fear me, just to prove that I do have some power. But then another part of me just wants to be cared for--my childhood was full of me being what my family calls the "mini matriarch." If my mother held a gavel in her right hand and scales in her left, I was her left hand. I kept the balance and the peace, the order and the mercy.

It upsets me to think that my mother and I are probably "close" the way my brother and I were "close." He and I weren't really close. He controlled me. I was a pet, a well-trained dog.

I woke up thinking today about that popular song, "I'm a bitch/I'm a mother/I'm a child/I'm a lover." I wondered if I asked my mother, "Do you realize you're a controlling person?" How she might answer. I don't think she would admit that. She would probably twist it somehow. This pains me because how can we form real relationships with others if we can't accept ourselves? Our shortcomings and graces and all of it?

I'm not shy to say I'm lots of things. I can be very manipulative, passive-aggressive, underhanded. I can work to rid myself of these tendencies, but not if I can't accept them. It took me a while to really admit that I was passive-aggressive, not passive, but now that I see the patterns of behavior in myself for what they are, I can work on stopping them.

My mother would vehemently tell anyone, should the issue come up, that she is assertive. She would proudly go on and on. No. She's not. She's mostly likely somewhere between passive-aggressive and aggressive. She may have moments of assertiveness--we all fall somewhere on the spectrum sometimes. But at her core is not assertiveness. I only know one person who is really assertive all the time, and you can SEE it. It's plainly obvious in everything she does. My mother knows this person. She should be able to tell the difference.

My father... I don't even know. The two of them come from this culture of under-the-rugness. They talk about forgiveness, not holding grudges, but they do none of the work most of the time. So really they're just shoving skeletons in the closet.

I know it's not up to me to "fix" them, but I want to. I'd like to be able to accept them. One of my great fears is that they'll die before we have a really solid relationship of understanding between us. My allies in my generation are not much help. My sister seems to have adopted their culture of accept and move on--they're not going to change and there's nothing wrong with who they are, how they handle things. She gets defensive about it, like them. My cousins are indebted to them for my parents taking care of them when their parents were no-shows.

I don't know. Maybe I should go spend some time with my aunt across the country, my father's sister. Somehow she seems to have escaped all of this. Maybe she has some answers about how my parents became these people who seem to treat denial as a friend.
 
You know, this is going to sound completely outrageous to some people on this board, but the way I fixed my relationship with my parents was I apologized to them. I had the exact same fear you did, that they would die and the last memory they would have of me would be one of anger and resentment. I had to recognize and accept the fact that they were not going to apologize to me.Even if they did, whose to say it would've made me feel any better? So I apologized to my mother and father for the unkind things I said and did to them, even if they had done something to earn it. And you know...I think it helped. That's not to say we didn't have fights after that. We certainly did. However, I feel like now we are able to settle our disputes better since we have, through me apologizing and my parents accepting my apology, made an agreement to not let our previous conflicts exacerbate the ones we have now.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is if you don't want a relationship with your parents, avoid them. If you do, maybe you need to be the one to initiate that new beginning.
 
Similar experience here Ronin47, it doesn't sound outrageous to me. That and keeping the past firmly in the past and focusing in the present ON the present.
 
That and keeping the past firmly in the past and focusing in the present ON the present.
If this were my realtime voice, I would be stuttering.

But how?

My parents have said things I can't forget and have denied them so that I can't forgive.

Even my bastard of a brother didn't say that my claims were untrue, just that they didn't matter. Honestly, if that was his only and minimum effort, I'll take that over denying the truth.

But in the face of his confessions... My parents saying horrible harmful invalidating things and denying it... What? Why?

What will forever be my most hurtful, unforgivable memory of my mother is her standing with my cousin, her voice lowered so I could not hear. I sneaked up anyway to listen.

"His therapist said he did it cruelly, to hurt her. He said he was trying to get power over her. But I just can't believe he would do that. I can't believe that happened. But why would she lie?"

Makes me want to break everything. And then for her to twist the words later... "I didn't say that." "I don't remember that."

Like I wasn't there, pocketing every word.

I think apologizing might do more harm than good to me, considering that I feel what they want is complacency, a thought that hurts me, though it does not sound outrageous either. Just outrageous to me. Not to mention, no matter how my parents might feel about such an apology, they did bring me up not to apologize when I was attacked and not at fault.

To me, to bring a little levity to the topic, it's like the South Park episode where Cartman gives Kyle AIDS so he'll stop making fun of Cartman--a horrible human--for getting it from a freak blood transfusion accident.

Principal: Cartman, apologize to Kyle for giving him AIDS.
Cartman: I'm sorry Kyle.
Principal: For?
Cartman: I'm sorry Kyle for giving you AIDS.
Principal: And now Kyle, I think you owe Cartman an apology for tattling on him.
Kyle: Apologize?! He gave me AIDS!
Cartman: See? He's doing it again!

Yeah. That's what it would be like for me.

Edit: by the way, @ronin47 , @The Albatross good to see you! Glad you posted here.
 
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"But how?"

By recognizing that "score keeping" in any relationship is a detriment and a liability that is harmful to ourselves and that it impedes our own healing process.

In my own family as I recovered and found the PTSD, the past is squarely in the past and we deal with the present. By mutual agreement.

I did own up to my own part and did not expect validation or apology from anybody else. I did it for me, so that I could move on. I have been able to do that relatively successfully.

I decided that on self investigation and also on the examination of my own family... people have foibles, are flawed, and sometimes bat shit crazy. But they are still people. Sometimes I have foibles, sometimes I am flawed, and sometimes I am bat shit crazy.... but I am a person and felt that I deserved kindness, compassion and respect. So I endeavored to give it. Now a couple years later, I'm starting to reap what I sowed. I'm starting to get it.

Contrary to popular belief... our perspectives, thoughts and feelings aren't the WHOLE story. They are only half of the story. I had to man up (woman up) and be willing to listen to their perspectives as well.

So far as giving an apology causing "harm" to you... life in a bubble in my own thoughts... got me nowhere. More than nowhere. It got me depression, anger, resentment and suicidal.

You don't have to buy their whole version... I didn't. It is just their perspective, from their own perhaps warped psyches... just like I have mine.

It's the old adage how does a blind man describe an elephant? It depends on where he stands and what he experiences. "A Jain version of the story says that six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.

A king explains to them:

All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently is because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all the features you mentioned.

The parable of the blind men and an elephant (Andhgajanyāyah), which addresses the manifold nature of truth.This parable resolves the conflict, and is used to illustrate the principle of living in harmony with people who have different belief systems, and that truth can be stated in different ways ."
 
@The Albatross, actually what you are saying mirrors the end-game theme of my memoir, which I admittedly had no plan of ending up at when I was writing the first 95% of the piece. The ending message was this, in a nutshell of the last scene.

Friend: So what have you learned?
Me: That my parents have their own truth, and I can have mine.
Friend: And what is your truth?
Me: Everything was beautiful.
 
Holy crap! I live in invalidationville!

I confronted my mother just now over how her speaking patterns are intrinsically defensive and invalidating, and it took lots of discussion and almost a half hour for her to be able to admit it while only qualifying it a *little* bit! I kept having to point out that every time she made a "concession" that validated my point, she would turn it around and either blame me or dance around the admission! It was insane! I couldn't even believe the resistance I was seeing over a VERY minor issue (which is why I chose this point to jump into the thick--SUPER light topic that was the source of my example of this speaking pattern).

It was crazy! It got so bad that she started fumbling around helplessly while trying to make more excuses, jumping from one distraction to the next, one fake explanation/excuse to another, getting all kinds of worked up in her inability to come up with more defenses. ALL I was asking for her to do is to recognize that her speech patterns--which I was raised with my whole life--exist and can be very invalidating due to their inherent mechanisms of defense and twisting blame to the person she is speaking with when confronted with *any* responsibility for the truth of her own words! I can't do all of the work and take all the responsibility for healthy communication! It's not possible! If we could have healthy communication with me doing 100% of the work for it to happen, we would have the best f*cking communication the world has seen, because I am completely willing to do that heavy lifting.

AAAARGHHHHHJJHFBXKDITNERFFFFFFHUTPH

I came here because I wanted a safe place to be *ill* because I am completely losing my ability to function, and all I hear is how wrong I am about everything and totally at fault for anything that goes wrong daily. It doesn't matter what I do. I'm not who they want as a daughter so it's all wrong.
 
So sorry that you live in invalidationville. OMG it sucks there.

What J and I have both learned is that it's impossible to tell an invalidating person that they are being invalidating. They just invalidate it, and then don't understand when you say, "Ya SEE??!?" Nope, nope, they don't see it. It's like it is invisible to them.

It's good you recognize is. You mentioned an aunt. What would be the barriers to you going there? Anything? If not, I strongly recommend you consider it.

Just doesn't sound healthy all up in there.

I don't think my family will understand why I just don't. want. to live. near. them. It's all this big clan, and it makes me so neurotic in that Woody Allen way? I seriously just can't do it. It makes me ill.

Who you are is someone working really hard to work on stuff, and be safe. Wishing you a safe place. It's out there, somewhere <3
 
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