Philosopher's Group : Philosopher's Group

[Lisa]

Hey guys! Sorry I've been absent lately!

Thought I'd add some thoughts to RD's post re: sex and gender as I have always found this interesting.

From what I have learned and my perspective... sex is in reference to genital organs defining a person to be male or female-penis or vagina. Sex is stable, unless surgically and hormonally changed... then the sex can change. Those excluded from the sex category at those with hormonal and genital ambiguity, ie. there are disorders where a child may be born with genital organs of BOTH sexes, or deformed genitalia with aspects of both sections. In the past, the parents would then just choose what sex they wanted their child to be and the organs would be surgically removed. However, as in the famous case where Dr Money was involved... gender starts to interact and cause problems if the wrong decision is made. Gender is not the same as sex... I can't remember the name of the famous person, however the story goes like this.

Twin boys were born... and both were involved in an accident that affected their penis'. The surgery on one of the boys went wrong. The wrong machine was used, and it destroyed the penis. So one of the twins was converted to a female sex, and never told of this until he was 15. However, he had issues with gender from day one... he felt like a boy, but had the hormones and surgically given sex organs of a female. This person suffered greatly with his gender issues... eventually, when he realised the truth of his past, he had a reversal operation to become male again. However the psychological damage led him to eventually commit suicide many years later.

How stable is gender? I am not sure. Research suggests it's influenced both genetically and environmentally. And of course there are those with transgender issues... born one sex, but feeling the opposite gender... So interaction between sex and gender is interesting in this respect. Unlike the case I mentioned above, many are born one sex, but grow up feeling and acting like the opposite... feeling female gendered when born male, or vice versa. So how connected are sex and gender? Are they the same? I don't think so, judging by the issues that happen when confusion occurs with gender. Are they linked? Yes... hormones play a part. But there seems, to me, to be a missing factor. What makes someone say, born and raised a boy, to always feel and act (even before puberty) as a girl? Environment and hormones play their part... but what's missing? Anyone have any ideas? And does anyone have any thoughts on the possibility that it may be possible to be neither gender? Or perhaps on a contiuum, like sexuality seems to be similarly?

Additionally, a lot of people confuse transvestites with transgenders... and also similarly confuse transgenders to be by default gay/lesbian. This is also untrue... transgender persons can be straight, gay or bi. How connected is gender to sexuality? If both exist on a contiuum, then a person who is not strongly leaning to one or the other side with gender and sexuality may have issues with both their sexuality and gender?

Anyone have any thoughts to any of this?

 

[Grama-Herc]

While I thank you for the invitation to join this group when it first formed, I am going to politely unjoin. The depth of the discussions are way over my head, and I have not participated at all in any of them.

I am not leaving for any other reason than stated. I am out of my element here

 

[Lionheart]

Hello everyone! I am new to this forum and to this group. I guess I will start by saying that I don't see science as the 'be all/end all' to what I am willing to believe. There are many facts that are well known to us that science has yet to prove, and since I believe that reality is largely in our perception of it, I don't define what is "real" by science, but rather by experience and perception. *(for whatever that may be worth to anyone). lol As for psychology, I see this as a collection of theories, none of which are any more valid than the others. (again, for whatever that may be worth).
Perhaps the thing to consider when discussing philosophy is, if it is working for us; is it fixed and rigid? Or is it flexible enough to allow us to change and to grow? Having said that, I reserve the right to change my mind about my philosophies at any given time. *(tongue in cheek) and I look forward to further discussion and hopefully making some friends while I am here. My mantra for the day comes from a rock song that some of you may already be familiar with;......"I've been to the edge, and there I stood and looked down.... ya know, I've lost a lot of friends there baby, I got no time for messin' 'round."
Live long and prosper,
~Lewie~

 

[fin]

I may not always be here or have something or anything useful to share or impart, but I hope that when I am I can bring something, and I look forward to reading what others share here also.
Thankyou.

in friendship
~fin

 

[Lionheart]

Lisa, I want to apologize for missing your post earlier and while I am not sure that I am totally clear on this subject, I do have a couple thoughts I'd like to share. First, while I agree that environment, and hormones play a big part in gender identification, I think that the lines between what is considered masculine and whats is considered feminine has changed and become more flexible over the past two decades. I, for one, am glad to see that because I do not like being labeled and find that I have both qualities and that most of the traits are really common to both genders. Unless extreme these, to my mind, aren't that important except when one begins to define themselves as a sexual person. This to my mind is more important than what someone else may deem appropriate or inappropriate for us. For instance, I am a very sensitive man and while having emotions is considered by most to be human; most emotional expression such as fear and sorrow are considered to be feminine and inappropriate for a man to express. I'd like to ask the question, "Oh yeah? Who said?" I have a very feminine girlfriend who is not of large stature but who can be very assertive and even aggressive in certain situations and I don't think this goes to define her gender in any way. Please correct me if I am wrong, as I realize that I may have the issue confused with something else, but I think gender has more to do with the way we are socialized to perceive what is masculine and what is feminine. I would love to discuss this in more depth if anyone is interested because I think it goes a long way towards understanding the self-labeling process that so many of us struggle with and often feel great discomfort with because it may not fit what society deems to be appropriate for us. Thank you for letting me share my thoughts on this.
~Lewie~