BPD Please help me understand the differences between bpd and c-ptsd

[Scarlet13]

Hello everybody!


So, I need your input. Is it possible to go through many repeated traumas and not end up with BPD?

I have recently been diagnosed with complex PTSD in therapy. Last year my therapist said I have aspects of BPD (I think T will abandon me) and when she said this it completely triggered me. I have fears of PD's in general (my mother is a narcissist and stepfather a sociopath) and I have fears of being misdiagnosed.

When I recently saw C-PTSD as a diagnosis (from this site) I felt so excited and happy. I brought it up with my T. She agreed that I have that. She said that my BPD tendencies are really C-PTSD. So, I don't know why she didn't just point to C-PTSD in the first place. But I still feel so paranoid that I might actually have BPD and my T is just not going to tell me I do. This is just anxiety and paranoid thinking.

I am now going to try DBT group again and I am terrified of being triggered by the folks with BPD that will likely be in that group. I have been researching BPD and watching youtube videos to try to get an understanding to lower my fear. I do not identify with "life with BPD" but however I completely identify with life with C-PTSD.

I really want to join the DBT group with an open and accepting attitude of myself and others and not fear mental illness that I likely do not have. It is like I know I do not have BPD in a logical sense and I feel I have CPTSD, but I can't shake my fear and paranoia. Its like I keep thinking I should have BPD because I was sexually abused and then I grew up in a very invalidating environment. To make matters worse I just got off of klonopin and had a terrible withdrawal and bad reaction to klonopin in general (side effect was constant suicidal thoughts). Sorry, if this comes across rambling.

Please just give me any insights you may have about how you know your are diagnosed with the right thing. Any thoughts will help me gain understanding and lower my fear.

 

[Justmehere]

So, I need your input. Is it possible to go through many repeated traumas and not end up with BPD?

Yes. I do not have BPD. I have been brought repeated traumas. I have worked with folks with BPD on the job, and I have done DBT myself. BPD is not a walk in the park, but it's actually really treatable and some studies show the majority of people with it don't have the diagnosis after 6-7 years and others show the vast majority go into remission for at least two years - up to many decades. It's gotten a bad rap for being a hopeless diagnosis, but it's not actually that hopeless.

As for DBT, you won't be walking into a room of people acting out of their worst symptoms. In fact, it's fairly possible no one in the room would even have BPD. DBT is highly structured and is used for a wide variety of mental health disorders now. Most DBT groups have many people in the group who do not have BPD, and those that do, they are not acting out uncontrolled like people with other personality disorders in the group or they'd get kicked out fast.

DBT is really CBT and a number of other techniques repackaged in a very systemicatic way that makes it really helpful for anyone struggling to regulate emotions due to many mental health conditions. I'd high recommend it for anyone with PTSD or CPTSD, even someone with trauma from abusers with personality disorders.

 

[Friday]

Is it possible to go through many repeated traumas and not end up with BPD?

Yup.

Combat is a pretty good example. People tend to think of "combat" as a single thing (maybe from hour and a half long movies? IDFK). But, really, you're looking at hundreds -if not thousands- of traumas over years and multiple deployments, involving every single facet of trauma. Death, threatened death, severe injury, sexual violence, vehicular accidents/wrecks, natural disaster, abuse, neglect, assaults, imprisonment, torture, list goes on. And on. And on. What people have individually seen and done very much depending on a lot of factors. One really f*cked up mission can taste the rainbow, while others are repeating the same old shit over and over and over. All mixed in with completely normal days of washing your clothes or playing spades behind the wire; & shopping at Walmart or being on your best behavior at your nieces christening back home, before being deployed again. Shrug. Do most PTSD combat vets have BPD? Nope. Even with complex trauma up to their eyeballs.

Okay, so maybe it's a purely developmental trauma thing? Closer. But close only matters in horseshoes & hand grenades. So it's still not on the money. Long term severe childhood trauma doesn't even result in any PTSD for everyone, much less result in BPD for everyone.

So, yep. It's absolutely possible, even common, to go through many repeated traumas & not end up with BPD.

 

[Scarlet13]

Thanks for your reply. My issue is that I tried DBT last year and last for one session. We introduced ourselves (I was the new member) and we had to say what we have. There was one girl in there with BPD. There were other people with diff diagnosis as well. But one with BPD. She was really triggering to me. I sat beside her and its like I could feel like she would hurt me. I know this is not logical, but I get triggered constantly by words, appearances, clothing, vibes, pretty much everything.

I willed myself to be open and sit with my anxiety. At one point, we were talking about a social skill and she said, "So, I hate my boss because he is just so stupid. I said to him, Just stop being stupid. It is just so frustrating. And then he gets so offended." I then said to her, "Do you think you can use empathy for your boss? Maybe he was having an off day." And then she turned to me and yelled at me. She had such rage on her face. She said, "I am not responsible for giving people any empathy. I have been mistreated by so many people in my life that people do not deserve my empathy."
After that, I felt so horrible. Now I have to admit maybe my comment came across a bit judgmental. After that, I believe I disassociated for the rest of the class.

I recently went to an intake for a new DBT group and relayed this story. The T is way more experienced than the last group. She did allay some of my fears with talking to me about how she manages the group. I told her that I do not feel safe in groups and am very avoidant of social situations. I am not socially anxious just I detest like general intimacy with people yet I am personable and work as a teacher. (Its confusing).

I am very excited about it, but I just wanted to really understand BPD, so thanks, that really helps. Having C-PTSD makes me feel happy for some reason, like I am not crazy. I feel like I will probably not say anything though in the group for fear of pissing somebody off

 

[theshadowoftheliving]

I think that, towards what @Friday said, here you are using C-PTSD to mean what van der Kolk has termed Developmental Trauma Disorder - ie, PTSD that results from multiple, interpersonal traumas in childhood. This is a little different from how some people use the term. It's confusing, because it isn't actually in the DSM.

I know how you feel. I have spent years and years misdiagnosed (finally landing on DID, which, for me, actually explains things so much, plus CPTSD and Depression). Borderline was one of the misdiagnoses and it carries so much weight that I felt worse about that than I do about DID, which gives a sense of how much misinformation there is about the label. If it helps you, BPD is increasingly being viewed as a trauma-disorder, existing on the same continuum as PTSD and DID.

I'm also going to express a lone, dissenting opinion - it is possible that DBT just isn't a good fit for you. It wasn't for me. I got worse and worse when my therapist tried to use it with me, and am finally back on even footing after stopping it and switching to a psychodynamic therapist. Just saying. It isn't for everyone. And that is okay.

 

[Lucycat]

My T considers BPD and Complex PTSD to be different names for the same thing. Some psychiatrists will diagnose Personality Disorders. Others don't think the term is a 'good fit' and have used the term CPTSD. I know it is not in the DSM but even if/when CPTSD is put there I think you will see an awful lot of overlap.

I got diagnosed with CPTSD (aka developmental trauma) as that is what my 'team' find more helpful. People have deemed PDs and untreatable and metaphorically throw people on the garbage heap. However CPTSD has a 'reason' and is never the sufferers fault!

Personally I don't worry to much about the label. Take what is helpful to you and leave the rest behind.

 

[BigBirdsSister]

I fear the diagnosis too, to the point where I downplay my pain to my T.. I am missing quite a lot of core aspects of BPD, but have had multiple traumas, including sexual abuse and do have a lot of trust issues because of it.. I fear the stigma and how people with it are treated and seen. I have friends with BPD and they are all some of the best people I know. I know some nasty people with it too. It doens't define who you are <3 I agree though that c-ptsd and BPD, should be separate though. PM me if you ever would like to talk.

 

[Sideways]

As mentioned above, there is a whole heap of overlap between cptsd and bpd, but reading your posts, analysing the differences between the two sounds like it may just perpetuate some of your underlying fears about bpd. Because if you don't have bpd, it doesn't really matter.

What I can add? Is from having done a pretty scary amount of group theraoy over the years. And one thing that is always really good to know is that even with a really awful group of agitated and acutely unwell classmates, a good facilitator is going to be able to run the group in a way that keeps the group space safe for everyone. It sounds like you didn't have that with your last group, and it makes a huge huge difference.

My hot tip with these sorts of groups is to enter the space keeping ij mind that everyone is there for basically the same reason: they're having a hard time with their mental health. It doesn't matter much whether a person has depression or bpd or schizophrenia or an eating disorder - if they're having a bad day, most often they're not going to be the most pleasant and likeable human being on the planet. It sux to be unwell, it sux to need therapy. Most people in the room are wishing they didn't need to be there. So until there is a degree of rapport established, I err away from personal questions, no matter how genuine, empathetic and well-intentioned they may be. Until the other person has established that you're safe? It's very likely that the only person they want to take questions from is the facilitator.

And although that sounds harsh, it's easy to come at it if you simply put yourself in their position: how comfortable are you with a complete stranger asking you personal questions? Not very. And if the only thing you do know about them is they need dbt for some reason? Even more so!!

I really hope this group goes better for you, because dbt has so much to offer if you get a good facilitator:)

 

[Jim711]

I also fear the BPD diagnosis. My therapist told me flat out, I dont think you have BPD. Do I believe him... no (lol). I have developmental traumas, I have interpersonal difficulties in specific situations (not in others) especially with people that trigger me. Here is where the BPD fear comes from I think. My negative beliefs and catastrophization come in, and I think "I'm terrible, incurable, it'll never change, I must have BPD." I think the difference between these conceptualizations, BPD or CPTSD, is that my distorted cognitions, negative core beliefs and self-concept can be changed. The truth, the wise mind truth (DBT reference) is that I have made progress in therapy which more closely approximates treatment for trauma or mood (in only 7 sessions). This, it appears that I can change the core beliefs associated with my traumas. There not quite so entrenched as in a PD. Though I'm no where near done, the progress, the responsiveness, suggests it isn't BPD or some other PD. Now, this in no way means those that dont make rapod progress have PDs. Maybe they just aren't ready for therapy, maybe the therapist isn't right. Who knows. Its tricky and some with ckear major depression can take many sessions to have a breakthrough. What I will say is, I have developmental trauma, I have abandonment issues, I have symptoms which overlap with BPD and PTSD or CPTSD, but I seem to be treatment responsive, and I function very well in most environments (i.e., family, church, close friendships). I will improve in those I am weak in (i.e., casual relationships, work environment). I think we are either people with this new diagnosis of CPTSD, or we are a different type of BPD that defies the PD label and responds to treatment to make full recoveries. But to me, that idea completely goes against the idea of an enduring, inflexible, pervasive, dare I say 'unchanging' pattern of inner experience. When I am rational, this simply doesn't apply to me even though there is symptom overlap...

 

[Scarlet13]

Thanks everyone for your insights.
Thanks Ragdoll, for your tips. That was exactly what I was looking for. I love that point about people need to know you are safe. Yes, I was a touch pretentious when I asked that girl if she could try out empathy. I do have my narcissistic fleas. They are getting way better the more I dig thru the pain.
Yes, the group facilitator is great. She is a PsyD who studied psychoanalysis for 4 years beyond the PsyD. It felt wonderful to do the intake because she kept mirroring me. I no longer fear BPD. My T feels it is just trauma in diff forms. I love the CPTSD diagnosis, wish it were official.

 

[EveHarrington]

My T considers BPD and Complex PTSD to be different names for the same thing. Some psychiatrists will di...

Cptsd isn't aka developmental trauma.

 

[Lucycat]

Cptsd isn't aka developmental trauma.

in your opinion...
However this is one of those moving goal posts and my T says IN THE UK it is the same thing!