Relationship Please, i need help understanding...

[Jbustama]

I recently broke up with a beautiful woman who I thought I would be with the rest of my life. We were together almost 5 years. The first year and a half we spent lots of time together, would go out to movies, etc. I moved into her home with her kids and mine who I have 50% of the time. Things went well, although there were the normal adjustments. To give you some background. She had not been in a relationship before me for 9 years as she had divorced her husband who was a meth addict and had cheated on her multiple times. Prior to this her first sexual experience was her being raped when she was 19 years old. So to say the least, her two prior relationships were not the best. She and I appeared to share dreams and love one another, but I noticed after I moved in she was reluctant to have sex and never initiated. Soon sex became even more difficult and she would want to have sex with her shirt on and many times would lye there until I was done. I definitely was not enjoying this and told her I felt like I was raping her and that she did not seem to enjoy it. By the way, since the first time we had sex she never wanted any foreplay, we joked that she would say "just stick it in". To say the least, I told her I couldn't have sex without her being involved as this made me feel horrible. I tried to talk to her about this and other issues for the last 2.5 years of our relationship and her response was either to tell me if I wasn't happy I needed to do something about it, then shut down and not communicate. Things would end up with me apologizing a day later for bringing up the subject and not even for doing anything wrong. She from the beginning of the relationship would perform oral sex on me, but it towards the end felt as if this was a way for her to appease me. When she knew I wanted sex, she would say I am not in the mood, but I will take care of you. I no longer wanted this. I wanted to connect with her, even snuggling would have been better, but she did not like this either. I attempted on multiple occasions to communicate and understand her, asking her what I could do to make her feel more comfortable and all she would say is all I wanted was sex even when it was just wanting to snuggle or kiss. I attempted to explain to her that sex is a beautiful way for 2 people to connect and that I was ok if she was not interested each time I was as I was ok, but needed intimacy in our lives (this could have been through snuggling hugging, etc.). I slowed things way down for the last year or so and did not even approach the topic with her and focused just on communication, which led to her always shutting down. In the last year of our relationship, we had sex 2 times. One was her begrudgingly and the other was after her company Christmas party when she was drunk. When she drank she appeared to be normal, be involved and enjoy being with me. To be honest other than this one night, I felt rejected, alone, hurt, appeased, etc.
To give a little more background, she was not one to go out, but instead wanted to sleep most of the day and be in our room reading by herself. I would go in the room and she would leave within 5 minutes stating I was too loud, or for some other reason. It got to the point where I felt so rejected and alone I did not know what to do. I went to a therapist and processed the situation. She identified to me that nothing could be done other than me setting boundaries if my partner was unwilling to communicate and what she was doing was the most unhealthy thing to do to another person or to a relationship. I gave this relationship almost 2 years after starting therapy and nothing changed and here I am today questioning what more I could have done. I do love her, but don't know what happened. I am sure you are asking if she went to therapy for the rape. She told me she did and that she had worked through that and that it was not a problem anymore. During our relationship she started going to therapy upon my request as she also struggled with depression and was on medication. She stated that her therapist recommended going on weekly dates and other small solutions. I am sure she did not tell her everything. Therapy stopped after a handful of sessions as she stated that she could not afford the copay and that she felt she was good. I encouraged her to go and see a psychiatrist instead of getting her medication from her medical doctor, she got extremely upset with me and told me I should go to a psychiatrist. I told her I would if need be and that I had no problems. She stated that she did not need to see a psychiatrist. Towards the end of the relationship, she did go to her medical doctor and have her medications changed which led to a month of fighting and increased irritability on her part. I found myself in the last year of our relationship and especially the last 6 months being depressed and feeling alone. The loneliest place in the world for me was lying next to the person I loved most. I was so hurt. Again in July, we went out to dinner begrudgingly and I attempted to communicate with her and got the same response. "If I am not happy, I should do something about it". I will admit, I had not yelled gotten mad and had done very well until this final time when I finally stated "Fine, I'm done. I can't do this anymore!" She responded that she knew for the last 2 years that I was going to leave. I feel this was a self fulfilled prophecy. I ended up moving out within a week as she wanted me out as soon as possible. I had since texted her and attempted to talk to her and she simply stated that she knows that she is just not enough for me. All I wanted was her to communicate and share with me, not shut me out...

Please give me your opinion, is there anything I could have done differently, I still love her, but realize I can not save her or be with her if she is shutting me out!

P.S. Sorry for the rambling...

 

[Justmehere]

I am not in the mood, but I will take care of you.

This would make me feel weird and bad too if this is what someone said about my request for physical intimacy. So yeah, I can see why you felt the way you did. I actually think it's really good you didn't want to proceed in this context. Good instinct to back off.

I am sure you are asking if she went to therapy for the rape. She told me she did and that she had worked through that and that it was not a problem anymore.

Her lack of sex drive could have been partly due to the medications she was on. She also may have needed to do more work in therapy. There may have also been other things going on. It is also possible she just wasn't into you anymore. She's really the only one who can say. It also could have been that there were things you needed to work on too - and I think it's great you are asking about what you might have done differently.

Please give me your opinion, is there anything I could have done differently, I still love her, but realize I can not save her or be with her if she is shutting me out!

I think this is a hard question to answer and any response would be a guess and possibly totally off. Relationships with past trauma in the mix are really hard. There may not have been anything you could have done differently that would have made his relationship last --- and at the same time, relationships are messy, and there are usually things both parties can work on and grow in. I'd take any feedback on this not as blame, but maybe something to learn from for future relationships.

Did you ever ask her what *you* could have done differently? If so, what did she say? She mentioned going on dates and etc. Did you do that together?

There is a book called the Five Love Languages. (Heads up - it's faith based, but not very much, and talks about some general great psych principles that can apply no matter where someone stands on matters of faith.) The authors write about how people give and receive love in different ways. Some really feel loved through physical touch - snuggling and etc. When my PTSD symptoms are low, this is so me. When my PTSD symptoms are high, other things can help me feel loved - words of affirmation or acts of service or quality time together are some of the other ways to build up love in a relationship. Both of you *might* have benefited from focusing on more of those things throughout the relationship. Then the physical might have improved along the way too. Maybe not. No idea.

Trauma makes emotional and physical intimacy and vulnerablity really f*cking scary. Rape mixes up good feelings with terror, and it makes sex and the actual good feelings that can come with it feel confusing and awful for some survivors.

As a survivor, it helps me when the person does things that help me feel really really really safe. Even then, sometimes I just can't even do a hug. I just can't. I try, but it will feel bad when I want it to feel good and even when I feel safe with the person. It's gotten way better with a lot of work... but it still gets hard at times.

As a sufferer, it really helps A LOT when the other person has supports and ways to feel happy and good in life on their own. If it's up to me, we are sunk and any intimacy feels harder. I for sure have a responsibility to contribute to making the relationship work but it's easier when I know the other person has other support and etc.

All her statements about how you should do something if you are not happy --- that had to be confusing to hear when trying to express your needs in the relationship (which was ok for you to do.) Her statements *might be*!reflecting the fact that you were trying to change her so much, with the best of intentions, when she wasn't interested in change. You mention things you did to try to help her, change her. But not so much what you were doing to work on you.

In a way, she was pointing out that the only person you can change is you. Did she need to make some changes? Probably. It was awesome you worked in communication and backing off for a bit. Maybe there were other things to work on too. (Or maybe you were already working on your stuff too.)

She did make some attempts at change but wasn't willing or interested in doing more. There is a point that sometimes someone just isn't ready/willing.

It was good to encourage therapy. It might have been better to encourage that you and a partner both go to a therapist together and both work on things together. You *might* have been slightly overpathogizing her struggle and *maybe* she didn't want inadvertently to feel like the sick one who needed to be fixed. Ya know?

You don't describe how you approached encouraging therapy, so I could be totally off. If so, just disregard this.

But think about it this way: if my partner was pushing for me to receiprocate physical intimacy more and suggesting that I get therapy so that I can reciprocate and met their sexual needs more... I wouldn't feel super motivated. My going to therapy so that they can feel happier? Yeah, that somehow feels weird.

I might be saying they should do their own work to feel happy too.

If my partner instead said, "damn, I don't want to keep doing things this way because I don't want to hurt you and I also don't know how to get my own needs met in this relationship. I love you so much, I want to make this work. Would you be willing to come see a therapist with me to help me figure this out?" --- I'd totally be much more motivated and on board with that. It's humble and feels like hey, we are in this together, and I don't need to be fixed but yeah, let's go learn some stuff about how to make this work together...

You are so right that you should not push and can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. And sometimes throwing out that whole dynamic - where one person is broken and needs saving to begin with - and instead approaching it as hey, we are both imperfect --- and being vulnerable and focusing on your own struggle --- that can be a lot more effective in resolving a difficulty and encouraging someone to get help together - and for themselves individually.

 

[Jbustama]

It hurts, because I do love her. But, I also understand that if she was not in to me, just let me know. We had gotten together a year after a very hard divorce for me and I had changed over the last couple of years. My main thing was that she would shut down and not communicate. She would tell me she wants to be with me and that she finds me attractive, but that she was just not in the mood. This hurt me in so many ways. If she wasn't into me and just told me, I would have been hurt, but I would have been ok. Instead, she would tell me she loved me and wanted to be with me, but no communication, no intimacy, etc.

 

[Jbustama]

I did ask what I could do differently and she would say nothing other than help more in the house. We talked about love languages and we agreed that we both needed to be more understanding and try. I did and she would not. I asked her out on dates all the time, she never wanted to go out and instead would say just bring food home. She would sleep all day with breaks to eat read and watch TV and go back to sleep.
I did not disclose this and will now. I am a therapist and have worked with many clients on PTSD and Depression. I also do EMDR for my clients. This is just so confusing for me. I was seeing my own therapist that said that there was nothing else I could do. I did not try and fix her, but asked what I could do to support her. She would just say it takes everything she's got to get out of bed and that I did not know what she was going through. I acknowledged this and always asked if she needed anything from me that I was there.

In regards to therapy, when she described how she felt I encouraged her to go back to her therapist as I knew she may need someone other than me to talk to. I also did bring up going to couples counseling. She said she would, but was never really interested, so I did not make appointments. When I brought up therapy, I encouraged her to go for herself. I always told her, I wasn't worried about sex, that this would always be there. I loved her. I just wanted her to be happy or have peace. She only had peace being left alone. Even her mother had worried in the end that she was falling into depression again as she posted some stuff on Facebook.

I don't know, I tried. I do miss and lover!!!

 

[Sweetpea76]

I would stop blaming yourself. If she wasn't addressing her mental health issues, then you could have stood on your head for her and nothing would have gone differently. PTSD relationships only work if the partner with PTSD is healthy enough to function in a relationship and is able to put as much work into it as their "healthy" partner.

 

[EveHarrington]

Agreed.

You could have done everything completely differently but the results would have been the same for one simple reason....

The drive to heal must come from within.

There is nothing you could have said or done to make her want to heal.

 

[Jbustama]

I felt many times like I was standing on my head. All the weird sexual stuff that I described in my original post sounds like PTSD to me! She definitely had been diagnosed with major depressive disorder her and struggled with that. I guess your advice applies to both. Do you think she still struggled from her original rape? You think this is why she did not interact or enjoy foreplay? You think this is maybe why she partially wanted to stay clothed during sex? I am just trying to understand.

Agreed.

You could have done everything completely differently but the results would have been t...

I agree, it’s just hard to move forward because the question keeps coming, what could I have done differently? I know there’s nothing I could’ve done differently, doesn’t mean the question doesn’t pop up.

 

[scout86]

Do you think she still struggled from her original rape?

Maybe. That kind of seems reasonable. It's also possible that there's even more to the story that she hasn't talked about yet.

 

[Jbustama]

Maybe. That kind of seems reasonable. It's also possible that there's even more to the story that she h...

Can you please explain this?

 

[Sweetpea76]

People don't like to talk about their traumas. She may not have told you everything. I've been with my vet for more than 5 years and I KNOW I don't know everything.

 

[Jbustama]

People don't like to talk about their traumas. She may not have told you everything. I've been with...

Like I said, she struggled communicating about herself. I know she constantly felt that she did not deserve good things in her life and that she also was afraid of things out of her control. Her children were the same way. They struggled outside of their circle, did not make friends easily and lacked in social skills.

 

[scout86]

What I meant was that she may have had more trauma in her life that just rape. (What @Sweetpea76 said.)

As a for instance, I was sexually molested as a kid. I remember it. But, even though I've always remembered it, and even though I could have given you a definition of "sexually molested", it never connected in my own head that what happened to me was that. It just didn't. Not until someone who actually cared put some stuff together and asked a few difficult questions.

I have no idea what 'normal' feels like, because I don't remember a time 'before'. What I can tell you is PTSD sets you up to live in a very strange and distorted territory and communication can be one of the things that feels very dangerous.