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Relationship Pollyanna

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Firstly, please don't stop expressing yourself, this is a discussion, nothing more. I only asked that you keep your personal opinion from citing as though factual. Your opinion and experience is valid, but individual and stops at you. I am not talking personal, just science.
"males are less emotional."
That isn't what I said... I used specific words such as "lesser" and "expression" in my context. Males and females both feel emotion, but males are far less capable to express it in a verbal context than women, thus males are the minority for emotional communication. The science is quite clear on these facets.

Males can be more emotional, according to electrical measurement probes, than females. This is fact.

Females can express these emotions into words, by interpreting them with high success. This is fact.

Males are not as adept in identifying and interpreting emotions for verbal cues, thus express them more behaviourally. This is fact.

What am I missing from the science?

It doesn't matter how you want to really read it, the outcome is quite distinct, in that males are the lesser of the two in emotional expression.

To me, that also means males pretty much suck at emotional communication. We can do it, but we're not as good as females at it.
 
@Mallaky ... Individuals always vary. The research is pretty clear, you & I simply happen to be in the narrow ends of the bell curve. Males tend to do XYZ. Females tend to do ABC. That's science. The "tend" is important. I tend to fall about 90% into typical male behaviors & thought patterns. Does that mean I'm not female? Snort. Of course not. Does it mean the research is wrong? Nope. Does it mean I'm doing it wrong? Pfft. Nah. Does it mean when I am lock-step with the female hoardes for the other 10% that I'm wrong? Ha. No again. The research (if done well) shows people as a whole. But individuals always vary.

<grin> And here's something to really bake your noodle... Guess who I tend to date? Men who tend to fall about 90% in lockstep with female norms! Sigh. Which lands me in the exact same boat as everyone else; freaking clueless as to why my partner is being such an idiot.

Does this mean I'm dating effeminate men? Nothing against, but also no. Most of my boyfriends have been super masculine. They're men, to begin with, and then I tend to meet them at work & play (and as a tomboy, those places are practically dripping on testosterone). Not a requirement, simply a byproduct of where I work and play. Regardless of where I'm finding them...They simply tend to make up for what I'm lacking, as I tend to make up for what they're lacking. (So we can each drive each other effing nuts, which appears to be required in relationships :p)

I used to be offended by the research. I have learned, though, that it's simply research. It provides the norms. Being outside the norm? I can still use the research. I just have to turn it on its ear. Oh. That's why Mr.Frustrating is doing that thing! :banghead: Okay. That makes sense. Okay. How do I work with &/or around it???
 
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@Sighs... Would you be horribly offended if I punched him in the gut and called him a f*cking idiot?

$50 says when you told him you felt lost and alone, he viewed that as his fault & therefore his problem to fix.

Unfortunately... The best solution to that problem would be to remove himself from the equation. Let you go live your life elsewhere, find someone who doesn't make you feel lost and alone, someone and somewhere you could be happy, instead of tied to him and his bullshit.

At the very least, that would be my thought process. I wouldn't immediately jump to "this isn't my problem or my fault, but something to figure out a way around as an outside issue with me as a fixture" (gah. I can't even type that in a way it makes sense). I can be gotten there, and have in the past, but it really is a process of first convincing me it isn't my fault / I'm not to blame, and second getting me on board with finding a solution different than my "best" solution (nuke the world ;) ).

Clearly, I'm not him / not trying to speak for him... But if you two were standing in front of me, he'd be doubled over and I'd be calling him an idiot, telling him "She wants to keep you, you ass. Pull your head out. This is a problem outside of the two of you. Help her fix it, don't make it worse by piling on."
 
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@FridayJones - :roflmao:

His instant reaction every time I express any unhappiness is to offer to leave. Initially I saw it as a threat to leave, but I now see in his mind its an offer - an out - a(nother) sacrifice he's prepared to make. So I think your thought process and his are pretty much the same there.

I think part of the problem was I have told him many times that what I need to get me through the times when he is hostile or distant is more affection from him when he feels able to give it. Problem is he really felt like he'd been making a big effort to do that and I hadn't really seen it. I guess his "good moments" are fewer and further between than I thought. :(

So... I'm working on acceptance and altered expectations. If he can't behave as I expect "the great love of my life" to behave, well maybe I can see him more as a hunky roommate with benefits! ;)

@Lemontree - love languages are definitely part of it - he says he shows me how much he cares by arguing with the panel beaters about which bullbar to put on my car. Swept. Off. My. Feet. :rolleyes:

@Purplemunchkin - tattoo booked for when I'm next in my homestate. Will have to figure out how to upload photos!

Thanks to everybody - this forum has been a literal life saver!
 
@Sighs, IMHO you need to sit down and watch these 18 short videos, Link Removed, which will take about 60 - 90 minutes of your time in total. By the end, I guarantee you will see many aspects of your relationship differently, and even yourself and how you handle things.

The videos are like a summation of things said here over the past 10 years, wrapped into a smack around the back of the head. Very good, very informative, very true. Tell me what you think please after watching.
 
@anthony - I am very pleased right now. You see, I misunderstood. I thought you had said "Men are less emotional" and "Men have less emotions" and you even thought science would agree with you. I have seen that alot, you see, and its so wrong and deeply difficut, and emotional :D , issue for me. Nice to see we are on the same page after all, and I misunderstood you. Men are worse at talking about emotions, yes.
Also, there are some "hot topics" for me, which make it very hard for me to regulate myself and stay calm. This is one of them. So before I write something I would regret later, I prefer to remove myself from the discussion. Basically everything that reminds of how I tried to reason with my abusers, tried to made them see reason. I put an absurd amount of time in the few messages I wrote here, because this is one of these topics.

@FridayJones - I have no problem with the science. Men have difficulties talking and identifying emotions, they dont have less. That is an important distinction. In my opinion at least. I have difficulty with people having damaging believes and think science backs them up, when in fact it doesnt. As it turns out, I also have difficulty with correctly understanding what people are saying. :D
 
Sigh!

Okay. Watched the videos. Started a gratitude journal. Have been trying SO hard to see the positives. Seemed to be working well. We were getting along so much better. Til this morning.

Last night we went to bed late - as usual - because he can't sleep til he's exhausted and he doesn't like me to go to bed before him. Up with the dogs (one sick, one puppy) 3 or 4 times during the night. I'm fighting off a cold. My alarm goes off and I get up looking less than thrilled. He looks over at me from his warm, comfortable spot in bed and says "What have I done NOW?". We've talked about this - I've told him I'm not a morning person and its nothing personal. So - a little frustrated - I say "You haven't done anything. I'm just tired and a bit sick." He interrupts me to say "Alright [my mother's name]. Calm down [my mother's name]."

He pretty much deliberately said the one thing he knows is absolutely guaranteed to make me explode. Of course I did and he said things like "Stop carrying on." and "Whatever." and "You woke up in a bad mood and just flew at me."

I left the house shaking with anger and haven't really calmed down since. I don't think that was PTSD. I can tolerate being yelled at when I can see its an amygdala hijack. I can tolerate him being withdrawn when I know its a PTSD symptom. I can even put up with being cursed out and pushed to do things like a cadet at boot camp because that's just how he is after 24 years as an infantry soldier. But this morning? Just cruel and nasty for NO reason!

By the time I got to work he had sent me a text message which read "sorry and love you [his pet name for me] x". I didn't want him to worry because I have an hour's drive to work so I sent back "safe at work." but left off the "I love you. xxx" that I would send any other morning.

Given last time, and his attitude this morning I feel that I cannot express how furious I am. I can't talk about how upset I am with him. That would "suck the life out of him". And obviously he's not going to "crawl on his knees to the likes of me". But I really feel if I just sent back "No worries. Love you too. xxx" then that is just being a total doormat. Its like he deliberately picked the one thing that actually will push me away.

I don't know what to do. Swallow it down and say nothing? Hey - its not such a big deal. Except that to me it is and he bloody well knows that. It shows total utter disrespect for me and my feelings. Try to talk to him about it? Yeah - that worked so well last time. Or just pack up my stuff and go. That seems like an overreaction and I'm sure he will tell me so. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Hello Sighs. Sorry to hear about your trouble! I try to give the most honest input I can.Your post was uncomfortable for me to read, because it brought back memories.

In short; I can relate. I am a sufferer and there were times in my life were I was a real asshole to my partner. Not unlike your husband.

First, it seems that this was unusually bad behavior? That is good. You wrote you were getting along much better. I think its important to not let the bad overshadow the good. It is better to see the whole affair not as one big pile of stuff, but a pile of good and a pile of bad. In time, one will grow and the other shrink. If he works on his progress, of course.

Now to the real meat.
I wrote there was a time I was a real asshole to my partner. From what you wrote I feel your partner is one to you. This behavior is simply not acceptable. You are not your husbands mother. Not his sibling, nor his nurse, or his drinking buddy. Your are his partner. An equal. There needs to be a level of respect, healthy boundaries. PTSD can, at times, swallow those. I believe, that must be fought.

You need to go to bed when it is the right time for you, and he needs to learn to cope. You need to take care of your health and your needs. Just because his needs can be more dramatic, volatile if you will, they are not greater then yours.

Before I knew about PTSD, about what the heck was going on with me, all those things were missing from my relationship.
I had it worse then my partner! ! ! He complained about things I did not give a f*ck about. Who cares if he gets his sleep, right? I am miserable, and I want help now. Need help now! What, he complains? How dares the son of a bitch, does he not see my pain? How can the pain of 2 hours less sleep compare to mine? Whiny dick, if he would go through what I was going through, he would know what it means to be truly tired. Now he is bitching about not having enough time for himself? Does he expect me to help him with his trivial problems, or what? What, now he wants to talk about something that bothers him? I cant believe he burdens me with his own problems! ! ! He knows that triggers me. What a unempathetic stone!! Pff. If he knew how hard doing the dishes is for me, the selfish bastard would not complain. And so on, and so on.....

You see? For some reason I considered it his duty to put his needs before mine. To care for me. As if he was a paid nurse, or a parent. Then, one day, he just broke down. He simply could not take it anymore. I made his live hell. He was afraid of coming home, because this demanding, angry, spoiled bratty big baby would await him and do nothing but complain and argue and bitch and moan. Hissyfits and temper tantrums abound. Of course, I considered him to be the difficult one.

Then, only when he could not take it anymore, he broke down. He cried and talked and cried some more and after months and months, finally told me how absolutely miserbable he was. How he felt unappreciated for all the sacrifices he made, how he does not need much but no matter what, even that he doesnt get. He had bottled it all up.

It was a wakeup call, if there ever was one. I realized I took him for granted. Like a little kid his parents. Did not even think about nor care that he was a human, not a function. When he was not my nurse, he was my punching bag.

What changed then was, that I realized he could walk away. I realized what I would lose if that would happen. Not the nursing and helping and stuff, that did not matter. But love and warmth and companionship. I realized that I buried the person I loved under my own weight.

We made an instruction manual of him for me. :D We figured out his needs, what he needs to be happy and I simply wrote it down and put on a wall. It hangs here, right in front of me. We wrote down just a bit, only a start, but that changed everything. Just those small boundaries we made, mostly about sleep, resetted me in a way. There was a beautiful ripple effect and I re-learned to be respectfull of his needs again.

Now we have a very beautiful and understanding realtionship again. We are very happy. I no longer take him for granted, but am profusely thankfull for all he does. He does alot. Its not all roses and sunshine of course. I still have bad days, or we have difficult situations. But when I behave shitty, which becomes rarer I hope, my apologies are sincere now. Its very different. I do not apologize anymore because I think I should, for peace's sake, but because I want to.

But that initial boundary setting, was so so important. To say: A line must be drawn, this far, no further. I hope you do not wait until your breaking point.

Sorry for the long text, did not plan for it become a novel.
 
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@Mallaky - thank you for your reply. Its so nice to hear that you guys are happy in your relationship. I think for me - based on my behaviour in past relationships - if/when I hit my breaking point then it will be all too late for him to realise what he has lost. I know myself pretty well by now - I will try and try and try until something inside me breaks and then I have no more feelings for my partner and the relationship is over - even if I don't physically leave for another year or two! That's what I was trying to tell him the other day, but he clearly doesn't want to hear how I feel. He hasn't even answered my text this morning. I am seriously thinking of leaving work and going home to end the relationship.
 
Hi Sighs

I'm sorry to hear things are so bad.

I realise your message was several hours ago, so you may have already made a decision by now.

I hope you do whatever is right for you, and look after yourself.

I know sometimes I just need space to think.

X
 
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