Psyche And The Immune System

[Cthulhu]

I don't know if anybody here has a distinctive feature like that I want to describe.
I also don't know if it has anything to do with CPTSD, I just know that it seems to have nothing to do with my other "health-related features" because I know many people who have the same but never experienced something like that. AND I got to know someone a while ago with the same odd extreme connection between psyche and immune system. She might have CPTSD, too. I know, many mays and mights but who knows, maybe I'll find someone who at least knows a part of it.

My immune system sometimes behaves in a really odd way. In bad times, really bad times, it has done some serious injury to my body, like it was part of some strange kind of self-injury-system produced naturally by the body. This "behaviour" started after some serious traumas, after parts of my personality split up from the rest and I almost lost the ability to dicern my own emotions. They were still there, they hurt inside my body and my body was still able to feel them... But my mind wasn't.

After that dissociation process my immune system related problems started. OK, I had had psoriasis and neurodermatitis since I was a baby (which is also autoimmune), but it had never been SUCH a huge problem, and it got better throughout my adolescence.
After one of my biggest traumas, which happend when I was 21, my immune system broke together. I was like an AIDS- patient, got about 30 times a cystitis, some inflammations of the kidneys, sinusitis and many other inflammations of parts of my body that hadn't even known before :P. All of that within one year. No doctor could explain it because my body seemed to be totally ok.

Later on I got immune mediated diseases, one after another. They were treated, they eventuelly healed (but may come back) but did some injury to my body that cannot be undone. Since then, my immune system gets bonkers when I'm into bad times. I always try to care for myself (and it), so that it doesn't happen again (don't know what it will be next time- could be something REALLY dangerous, who knows?), but it just isn't possible to avoid all triggers, to care for yourself all the time when you have to lead a "normal" life.

Does anybody know something like that?
I think it is some kind of emergency brake of my body which is used when I have really huge problems, because I almost do not discern, perceive, notice my emotions in a normal way. But it may also just be that self-injury-machine I described above. In the past I did it by myself and because I don't want to anymore my immune system does it for me? Don't know.

 

[bluecat]

Hi Cthulhu,

I had a freak thing happen as a kid, during the time when the abuse from my father and school teachers was at its worst. Every time I freaked out from something he or they did, I got sick. I would get high fevers (42C, whatever that is in F, pretty much the highest you can go without frying your brain). Every time a different infectious disease, stuff that my sisters just shook off. It always came with the same feelings beforehand, (this feeling like you're slowly slipping into a far away world, everything looks far away and like if you were looking through water, even sound is distorted), which I now recognize as dissociation.

Being really sick was a way for me of being safe from my father. If I was only moderately ill, he wouldn't leave me alone, but this way, he didn't bother me. I spent more time sick than healthy. It subsided as I grew older, but I still continued getting sick in response to stress. My body really took a beating, but all sorts of tests didn't show any abnormalities or underlying health issues. I think it was all from stress and dissociation.

I spent the first few years in therapy learning how to recognize when I am getting to the point of my body breaking down and taking a break, so I wouldn't get sick. It worked, now I only get the occasional cold or whatever goes around at work. I had the feeling I used to get before the fevers last week, first time after many years. It was because I had a big fight with my close friend and we are probably not going to be friends any more. I found better ways to cope (calling my T and coming here on the forum : ) but it was freaky to feel that way again. I think getting sick and wanting to die was my response to rejection as a child and this situation brought it back. Especially since I've been having flashbacks from that time period lately so all that stuff is close to surface right now, I guess.

I definitely believe that stress can lead to illness. What can be more 'tangible' than an infection and at the same time, if I my nervous system is not overwhelmed, I never get sick. I actually think I have a pretty good immune system. There is a lot of research into the psychosomatic aspects of almost any kind of illness. It doesn't make it easier for you, because you still feel horribly sick and your body still takes a beating. But if you think there may be psychosomatic components to your illness, it could be worth discussing with your T and finding ways to recognize when you're at the tipping point and give your body a rest soon enough, before it overloads and attacks itself like that.

Best of luck,
Bluecat

 

[suzie q]

I can completely relate to what you are saying. My experience has been that every time my stress level/dissociation/DID was high my body reacted with another illness that just appeared without any warning. I thought that my eating disorder (couldn't eat at all) could be the cause, and I'm sure it was to some extent. The doctors said my blood work looked good and couldn't find a reason for the continued body breakdown. I spent some time triggering into past abuse issues and would drink or drug to numb. Even with all that, I was told that my body was "healthy" (no liver, kidney, or heart problems. Stomach good, bowels OK, blood sugar OK).

After spending time with a good therapist and working through the many emotions I couldn't identify but felt daily, I began to notice that my health was better. I thought it might have been my immune system but was told by my Internist that my immunity looked average. I used to get flu like symptoms, bad head and chest colds, migraines, severe fatigue, low blood sugar symptoms, stomach pains, blurred vision and ringing in my ears constantly. I felt pretty sick most of the time. I spent almost 3 years in the bed and couldn't leave my house.

Now that I've worked through a large part of my past, I feel pretty good most of the time. I suffer from chronic depression and take meds to regulate. The only thing wrong now is that I'm getting on the "old side" and my body is breaking down with use. I stay active and love the outdoors and gardening. My hubby and I camp, (ole backpack/tent style) hike, bike ride, fish, and have a 160 lb. dog that we exercise nightly. I'm not a couch potato, but time is taking its toll. Last couple of years I've had kidney stones twice that had to be blasted to pass. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!! Anyhoo...stress is a killer and until you are away from it, you don't realize how much power it has on you physically.

Working on my dissociation and getting my "splits" to merge with a therapist stopped almost all of the pain I was experiencing. Over time and more work on past issues, my ability to stay healthy increased. Working on my stress with someone who taught me how to process the feelings and let go of the mental pain helped me the most. Hang in there and continue to talk about what's bothering you. You're stress level should get better just by sharing.

See ya around the forum...suzie q

 

[Steve]

Hi Cthulhu,

I know what your talking about I think. I too have CPTSD and I am told dissociation. I have lived most of my adult and teen life with that emotional coldness you spoke of. I only ended up in therapy at all because my body broke down (as I tend to put it). If I understand it correctly emotions need to be recognised processed and expressed. If they are not then not only the stress of the event but the stress of repressed emotions gets backed up and gradually increases. Stress has a sometimes quite debilitating effect on the body and it is different for each individual because each individual has different physical strengths and weaknesses.

It may be reduced immune responce, reduced healing ability, right up to organ failure. Some of mine were repeated infections of unknown origin in feet, outbreaks of serious exma, liver dissfunction, fused spinal vertabrae, cuts wont heal, chest infections and tinnitus among some other things. Diferent to yours but I suspect for the same reason and possibly attributable to the physical stress resulting from the cptsd and other things.

I hope this is helpful, It is as I have come to understand it from my doctors.

be well !

Steve

 

[Cthulhu]

Thanks for your answer :), yes, it does help to hear that I'm not (almost) the only one. I didn't write all of my health-related oddities, tinnitus is something I know since about 6 years, it started with an ear infection and never ended again. It's a sad thing that one will never experience a single moment of silence again... But well...

 

[kers]

Growing up, I was sick all the time. When my symptoms worsened as an adult, so did my illnesses. My doctor says she is perplexed by why I get sick so often, but I feel like I know the answer--it's related to the PTSD. When my symptoms go up, I often contract an infectious illness (cold, chest infection, etc.). When I am stable, I am physically healthy. Given all the research on how stress affects immune systems, no wonder we all get sick. Our bodies are in a stress response so often that we don't even notice it anymore.

 

[Daisy_May]

There is a link, of course. I used to get every single cold, sniffle, flu, etc, even phantom symptoms from other people around me who were sick. I was a hypochondric well into my teens.

When I was 24 I was working and I REALLY needed the money, and I felt my throat being tingly and scratchy, and I FORCED myself, like as if I was bullying myself, to stay healthy. I repeated the mantra "my body is healthy and strong" over and over, and pretended I was glaring at the virus, and it never developed. I quit smoking when I was 26 and have not had a cold or fever since. I also suffer from terrible bladder infections, and I was on vacation and forced myself to heal, and for the first time ever it went away without antibiotics.

When you are stressed your body eats up your progesterine (your feel good hormone) and produces excess cortisol--maybe you should see a hormone specialist? I did recently to deal wtih PMDD, they put me on the mini-pill and it has been smooth sailing with my skin and even moods since.

Good luck.

 

[Sammy]

My trauma began the year I was born. Because my brother was ill and I was healthy, I learned immediately that being sick just didn't matter. It only mattered in extreme situations. Once I started teaching, I developed a super immune system. Then, a move and some more trauma, and my body fell apart. Hypothyroid, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea and the worst, asthma. It was actually my pulmonologist who insisted I get counseling - she could not get the asthma managed (and she went after it like a terrier!) and she was convinced it was stress/anxiety (very observant because I had become good at hiding it and pretending it wasn't there.). Once I started to really understand I had (c)PTSD and started to figure some things out, the asthma got significantly better. I know my stress is mounting when I start coughing and wheezing. When I start needing my inhaler, I know there are things that need addressing. I don't always know what it is but I am getting better at dealing with them. And taking care of myself (need to keep working on that one...). The pulmonologist said there is definitely a link between stress/anxiety and health.

 

[Cthulhu]

Hi Daisy_May,

When I was 24 I was working and I REALLY needed the money, and I felt my throat being tingly and scratchy, and I FORCED myself, like as if I was bullying myself, to stay healthy. I repeated the mantra "my body is healthy and strong" over and over, and pretended I was glaring at the virus, and it never developed.

That's exactly what I do all the time! After my last big health-breakdown I turned myself into an ultra-motivated workaholic and used a similar mantra to yours. And really, I almost never get ill and if, it's not that bad and mostly heals itself.
Unfortunately I know that I'm treating myself like my parents did... And this doesn't seem really healthy to my. More like a sadistic thing, something that can't really be good.
But when I have to much free time, to much time to think... I eventually get ill. Because of my still broken emotional kernel.
That's the point where I struggle, I don't have the answer to this and didn't find another way to stay mentally AND bodily healthy...

 

[Artista]

I don't know.... been having such difficult health issues and they are perplexing... (see "Is A Broken Heart Real" in this section). I also have heard of another theory... now be careful cuz this is written as truth. I haven't found something just yet to support it, it is news to me but here goes... what do you all think of this? The following is something I came across in looking for misdiagnosis:

Family and Subconscious plays a big part in our health.
When we are talking about subconscious, we are talking about past.
"Beside the color of our eyes or tendency toward epilepsy, from our ancestors we inherit various kinds of feelings, tragedies, traumas, tempers, tresses, misfortunes. We also inherit the terror and fear of living in poverty, hunger, insecurity, etc (nevertheless of our temporary status)."
"Families have numerous levels on which they exist and on which they function in the same way as each of us individually. There is a difference between the visible (so called manifesting) level of family's relationship and the level of hidden feelings, games and positions (so called latent level). The pathological balance frequently exists on exactly this hidden level, which, after long-term stagnation of energy, creates sickness or pathological process to that family or to their members."
"Today we are aware of the fact that any serious emotional trauma that happened in the past to you (or your parents) can have a significant effect on the continual state of your health.
People can also strongly suffer from emotional trauma inherited from parents who lived with hidden and unsolved rejection, with concentration camp or refugee drama or ancient separation during birth.
All this pervades the descendents and brings them in an emotional state, which they don't remember experiencing at all. We can frequently see how, in families, children reflect their parents, as if they are looking in the mirror.The characteristics that they have taken from their parents or some distant ancestor may include the tendency toward depression, fear, self-criticism, lack of conscience, self-rejection, etc. It is therefore very clear that the emotional trauma is the main reason for bad health."
"Unfinished businesses within family can block and take away the family energy. These can be various family secrets about family's conflicts, murders, war sufferings, rapes, religious intolerances, adultery, frauds, plunders, betrays, etc."
"By finishing the unfinished business a lot of life energy can being released."
"Secrets and lies within a family are very important, because secrets, hidden thoughts and feelings are those that produce the unfinished business and knots. Very often almost whole family energy is spent to keep some secret on the safe place, so the members of the family hardly have strength for anything else in their life."
Soul is a part of us, which connects our body (material aspect of our existence) and our spirit (our connection with spiritual). Soul is a part of us that is connected to emotions and in this way it knows all truths from the beginning to the end. It is not like mind which analyses, interprets, judges, synthesizes and babbles, babbles, babbles, etc It's medium is not a word but a picture.
A lot of things that determine our lives, happiness and health belong to those latent levels and it processes beyond the level of our consciousness. Not only does there exist a large subconscious part of us connected to our individual lives from the beginning until present moment, but also there exist a large part in that subconscious that is filled with various important elements from the whole evolution, from prehistoric human until today. As in some unimaginably big computer, tidily in our subconscious we have sorted files that possess all the emotionally important information from the prehistoric days until today.
This is known as collective subconscious.
Beside individual and collective subconscious, in subconscious part of us there exist one more "sector" in which are placed files that possess something that is called familiar subconscious. This is something that we inherit from our ancestors through our genetics. These are furthermore those "programs" in our lives that are often, automatically and unconsciously happening and determining our destiny. Therefore we, beside the color of our eyes or tendency toward epilepsy, inherit various kinds of feelings, tragedies, traumas, tempers, stresses, also the pain of midwife whose children are dying while giving them birth, the misfortune of their mother to whom they forbid to marry the love of her life, we also inherit the terror and fear of living in poverty (nevertheless of our temporary status).
"That is why we often notice within family, for example, five generations of lawyers or seven generations of doctors or four generations of alcoholics, suicides, schizophrenics, divorces, etc."
"If the children are the ones whose problems are involved, then the adequate people should work for them in the therapy as their parents or very close relatives."
It is important to learn what is right and what is wrong, in relationship with people. It is important to regret doing things that are bad. It is important to forgive to those who regretted. It is important to forgive to yourself. It is important to learn from mistakes. It is important to love your parents, your ex partners, your present and your past partners, your children, born and unborn, alive or dead.
It is important to do good to people. It is important to do good to your own children. It is important to support your children. The best that a parent can do for their own children is to love the other half, the other parent. How do you show love to your children? By showing them that you love the other parent! Lack of this love may cause imbalances that will be felt through generations.

Dealing with symptoms is of little help.
The real cure means addressing causes!


What do you all think of this theory? I had always kind of rolled my eyes at "blame it on the father for everything" but is there a thread of truth?????? Interesting. Could there be dna loaded with trauma on some level? Sounds crazy... but is it?

 

[James B.]

I like the theory Artista.

It is very similar to other stuff I've been coming across from different sources. Sort of part Jungian, maybe, and sort of part Taoist and maybe Buddhist also. If a theory resonates on a physical, mental and spiritual level, and stands the test of time as an individual moves through life, their healing process and personal evolution, then it is useful, IMHO. Thanks for posting.

 

[Artista]

yes James... agree on the tone being Eastern and Jungian! I have been doing a lot of soul searching work. Reading lots of Thomas Moore. Going to research it further. Hoping others have thoughts or come across similar discussions. Some may not believe in soul aspects and how that is different from our psyche.