Ptsd from narcissistic abuse

[ano]

I thought about this subject a bit further, and I realized that maybe it's essential to mention about the core issue in this. I've used to talk about this in those superficial terms, but what it's more about is that the person feels that this other person has his or her life on their hands, they control it and could even take it away from them if wanted. It doesn't need any concrete life-threats, it's enough that it's perceived unconsciously or consciously. The person might not realize it in a concrete way, he or she could just be afraid of this person without realizing why. In the core he or she feels uncosciously or consciously that this other person can't be trusted, and at the same time he or she somehow feels trapped in this relationship with lost power, no way of escaping.

I wanted to add this. Emotional abuse can be a very complicated phenomenon, and the knowledge about it is increasing all the time.

Ok, this will be my last post here, I sense that you have some kind of high need to defend something relating to this.

PTSD only means post-traumatic symptoms. The first criteria is about wether you had an traumatic experience or not. So, if you say that someone doesn't fit that criteria, you're saying that this person doesn't have a trauma. Nearly not all people who have experienced trauma develop PTSD symptoms afterwards. But that's not about the nature of the traumatic event, its about the perceived trauma. Different people perceive different situations traumatic, and different people react with different symptoms to trauma. Some people develop different kind of symptoms, not PTSD symptoms, and some people develop more PTSD kind of symptoms.

 

[Scarlet13]

So emotional abuse can lead to feelings of abandonment. You can be so emotionally and psychologically abused that you do feel a threat of death.
When you are a helpless child where your care giver takes love a way and does not meet your needs emotionally speaking this could feel like you might not survive. Emotional abuse is neglect and it can feel life threatening especially when you are little.
I don't know about emotional abuse as an adult, honestly.
As far as getting a diagnosis for a narcissist in your life, I am completely ok with using a check list especially in the context of my own therapy.
My mother will never, ever go to therapy. If I told her I thought she was the narcissist, she would say I'm the narcissist. She believes she is perfect and I am the selfish, f*cked up one.
But, for my own healing, giving her the NPD diagnosis has helped immensely.

 

[shimmerz]

Please tell me people on this site are not saying that psychological abuse isn't traumatic.
That being stalked and threatened and harassed is not traumatic.
That destroying a partners social/work/economic life is not traumatic.
That being told that one's sense of reality is f*cked up (I have no idea where your keys are - you must be getting alzheimers) is not traumatic.
That literally walking into a war zone (aka your house) where you never know what is going to happen, but you know it is going to be horrendous, is not traumatic.
That having to be constantly present in a violence ridden home to protect your children from said psychological abuse is not traumatic.
Forms of Emotional and Verbal Abuse You May Be Overlooking

Having lived through such experiences and then some, I can attest to the fact that my nervous system was going insane through the abuse I suffered in my DV days.

Just because the impact of psychological abuse has not been studied in a meaningful way in relation to PTSD does not mean that we should be invalidating those who have suffered through severe psychological abuse at the hands of their partners.
https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bits... of Psych AbuseSackettSaunders.pdf?sequence=1

Psychologists, in my history, have been the only professionals that actually 'get' that abuse and trauma take on different flavours that don't necessarily sit neatly within the definitions of the DSM. If, as the above article states, the impact of psychological abuse in PTSD has not been studied in any meaningful way, then it stands to reason that we have NO IDEA whether psychological abuse can lead to PTSD. That is much different than what is being said in this posting. This posting is stating that psychological abuse does NOT lead to PTSD, which, as far as I can see, there are absolutely no studies that confirm that.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Please tell me people on this site are not saying that psychological abuse isn't traumatic.

That is not what I said personally. I said:

All trauma and suffering DOES NOT equate to PTSD.

Therefore, it is traumatic but traumatic does not always equate to PTSD.

Just because the impact of psychological abuse has not been studied in a meaningful way in relation to PTSD does not mean that we should be invalidating those who have suffered through severe psychological abuse at the hands of their partners.

So saying traumatic and suffering that doesn't meet Criteria A thus cannot cause PTSD is invailidation? Sorry, I don't see that. I personally never said it wasn't traumatic and there wasn't suffering. I am saying it cannot cause PTSD. PTSD doesn't encompass all suffering in the world. PTSD is not a catch all for all the suffering in the world. Saying that is not invaildating the suffering taking place.

 

[shimmerz]

My point was that psychological abuse hasn't been studied yet as to whether it can be the cause of PTSD with the absence of physical violence.
Because it hasn't been studied, nobody can say with certainty that it can't cause PTSD. We won't know that until the statistics from the studies are in.

 

[anonymous]

I am saying it cannot cause PTSD.

@lostforgottensoul By this, am I correct in assuming you are talking about ptsd in terms of the clinical diagnosis. Not ptsd as it experienced by the person?

Similar to how nobody actually has c-ptsd, because it's not a valid diagnosis. While at the same time, alot of people have it?

 

[hodge]

I was emotionally, and occasionally physically, abused by a narc mother. I've had several therapists post-PTSD who have all confirmed that she played a major role in my PTSD. (I have had several therapists post-PTSD because I always sought out an older woman therapist, and they all retired while treating me.) The price of getting older, lol. But now, for the first time, I have a T who is 10 years younger than me, but a very good trauma expert. She is like the therapist I've been looking for all my life. Not that the other ones weren't good.

 

[Tinyflame]

I've been through both, but I find unlike Criterion A events, in time, the symptoms subsided (15-25 years without re-exposure for much), though mistrust and fear remain (cognitively). Definitely traumatic and devastating, but 'different' to me in a way I just don't have the words for. Perhaps no onus on myself of personal guilt? Idk. In those cases I couldn't even say I was in the wrong place at the wrong time- because beyond original shock, it was only surprising when it occurred in degree of level of violence or 'low'. (So for example, the DV or lies/ crazy-making was 'expected'; but being sexually assaulted by a visiting family member's bf, was not. Which is the 1st time I've said that 'out loud', ever, I think.)

The way I think of it no one knows, though with a break-up like that, avoidance being one symptom of ptsd I would still at all costs try to avoid the person, even if it excluded me from my own life. But that's just me. Breaking down in their presence or freaking out seeing them even without ptsd I could see myself doing; when the ptsd began it wasn't a question to be near. Just my experience though.

But other critical causative factors could exist perhaps not mentioned, too. And, what do I know. I hope for the OP's sake there is help and healing out there. And for all who suffer, here or otherwise.

If anything, I wonder if a structural/ neurochemical change occurs in the brain with ptsd? Maybe one day they'll understand more.

Just 2 humble cents. :notworthy:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Because it hasn't been studied, nobody can say with certainty that it can't cause PTSD. We won't know that until the statistics from the studies are in

Is Criteria A not currently required for a diagnosis of PTSD? Yes. Then as we know currently, emotional abuse cannot cause PTSD as it does not fit criteria A. If that changes in the future, cool, but its not what is in the DSM/ICD today therefore a PTSD diagnosis cannot occur today.

 

[hodge]

Umm, when you're reasonably afraid your narc mother might poison you, I think that meets Criteria A. That is why I always made sure to make dinner before she got home. That is why I am always triggered every single day about making dinner.

 

[anthony]

I don't understand why you're so hostile towards psychologists

I'm not being hostile, I'm being honest and thought we're having an honest discussion.

causes very similar symptoms to some people, but they are not labelled as PTSD

Agreed. Agreed about future broadening of diagnostic labelling. BUT, everything bad in life, is not PTSD. You as a claimed psychologist should know this. You should not be taking everything remotely traumatising in life and going straight to PTSD. Symptoms alone do not define whether a person has PTSD, and that is what you seem to be missing. You can have all symptoms yet be diagnosed with anxiety and depression alone, because of criterion A.

You should not be broadening criterion A to suit yourself and clients because you interpret trauma as fitting PTSD, regardless the type or severity. You should be following the doctrine you have for diagnostic purpose. There are many other befitting diagnoses for people who endure trauma in their life, and have symptoms similar to PTSD.

 

[hodge]

I agree with Anthony. Too many people are claiming PTSD these days, which just serves to water down the real diagnosis and give some people some weird excuse. It's deplorable and disrespectful for those of us who really have it. And it muddies the waters. Mental health professionals need to be clear on what constitutes PTSD and what does not. Just so they can really help everyone.

Also people who really have PTSD suffer the loss of their previous abilities. Like me. I used to be able to spend hours researching and writing books. When PTSD came on, I lost that. I lost my big reason for being. I can now do little bits at a time, like 20 minutes or so at a time. But nothing like what I used to be capable of.

And I work hard on myself. I've tried every therapy out there for the last 11 years. I think my brain was just harmed. I don't know if it will ever be right again.