Purity, abusers and religious faith

[Upside Down Eagle]

Maybe not. I don´t see a lot of the good around me. I´ve been locked up for a month now due to having the fricking coronavirus so I´m not in contact with a lot of good.

I returned from my pilgrimage to find that I had zero real-life friends left. I´m just having a bit of trouble having faith in the world right now. Thanks for offering alternative perspectives.

 

[somerandomguy]

I returned from my pilgrimage to find that I had zero real-life friends left.

I'm sure that if that had happened to me, I'd be struggling with the same things you are now. Go easy on yourself. You're going through a lot in a stressful time.

 

[Ronin]

I get the loneliness and isolation...
Both of staying put and returns & transitions being difficult.

Though it may be a good time to look at who you are, want to be, want to live like, want to become. Instead of what isn't, what is, can be and is just waiting to be.

Ditto, the pilgrimage can be such a good ice breaker & bridge to new relations. :sneaky:

Finding people excited about Santiago, journeys at large, travel, spirituality, or anything else that time gave you, can be a lot.

So not what you lost Q...

What has the journey gifted you with?

 

[Tinyflame]

I like your post too @somerandomguy . And I have a beer on occasion... ;):)

I apologize in advance if this is useless or not relevant, or perhaps I only understand a wee bit.

I don't see 'purity' in ways perhaps some would, but most of all not my business what others think choose or do, just of myself. Appearances can also be deceiving.

To go a bit deeper though- purity- or rather pure in/ of heart (people used to only think of purity as sex etc or the lack of, which said more about them than anything), I believe infers good, loving, self-and-other respectful intentions; transparency; one might say willing the good. Letting God be God, but considering all (and who) God made as sacred. 'Sin' is considered what goes against that, is destructive, leads to breaking apart, +/or death. So it has to do, really with love, which competes with greed, self, etc.

I don't know, but not everyone feels called to be monks or hermits, and hearing God (or wisdom, discernment) I suppose requires some turning down of the volume of distractions and competing thoughts/ demands. But if God exists and is in everyone, wherever you are is not only where you're meant to be, but who you're meant to care for, communicate with, put whatever you feels supports and respects them and yourself in to practice.

I heard something funny (not in a haha way, my apologies to anyone who is an atheist), that atheism proper stems at the heart from really not being able to believe a person is loved- exactly as they are, regardless of what they do or ever do, and quite unconditionally. Add in terrible excuses of human beings' choices to do terrible things in the name of religion or their own twisted justifications, & I do think many people feel like if there is anything like God, He/ She wouldn't/ doesn't receive them well. Which is, as I understand it, totally incorrect. But leads to more of the same; why choose anything else if we know it will end badly?

Just my 2 cents though. What people do would infer I know why, and that would be a judgment I just am not capable of. In terms of the current situation, as a person who's lived with much trauma, grief and fear, I see many people reacting (& perhaps not even realizing) as people do with grief, panic and disaster. Buying items unnecessary is like grabbing for bizarre items when evacuating a house; raging and denying and focusing on blame- all quite normal. Unboxing on Amazon, not entirely different (to me) as doing reckless things to spit in the face of reality (but I know even more likely at it's core, people who really, really, don't know what to do).

And fwiw, though not for me, I know a lung transplant surgeon who says for 25+ years he holds his breath when around diesel fumes.

I think you have to hold your own moral code, but I imagine God's purpose is joy and love, the concept behind love each other in the way he did. Pull out the stops. Personally, I would just parse apart what's scrupulosity from what's the intention behind genuinely being a positive light regardless of how dark it is around at any given moment. Even if surrounded by terrible violence, or lack of respect or acceptance, your own heart can have peacefulness.

Not sure if that makes sense. :rolleyes:

 

[somerandomguy]

atheism proper stems at the heart from really not being able to believe a person is loved

Religious folks have lots of different theories about why people are atheists. I haven't heard a single convincing one yet. I understand your point here, though.

Sorry for the hijack. I think all of us should go have a beer together. ?

 

[Tinyflame]

PS! Wow! I always wanted to walk the El Camino! ? :) Except for sky diving one of the only bucket list things I'd wanted to do! Just because I can walk a lot, and would like to see what I saw/ heard/ what came to me. :)

@somerandomguy that's what I meant by my apologies. I actually don't personally know any 'religious' person who actually has any theories, but I thought it was interesting that none of us can imagine such unconditionality, from other humans either. I thirnk the point too is, there's not 'them' and 'us', or 'them' vs 'me'. There's just a whole lot of people who, I must say, regardless of beliefs or nationalty, have a very lot in common.

There used to be a Toyota ad, said built for the human race. My mom used to say, what other kind of race is there? :confused:

Happy to buy the 1st round. :) ?

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

@Ronin, the journey has gifted me a headache :P

It has gifted me the knowledge of what I definitely don´t want, which I guess is good. Trouble is I am still stuck in that situation. The ideas of what I do want seem outlandish and impossible at this stage, specially considering the lockdown... which makes me kind of pessimistic.

@Tinyflame yeah it does make sense.

The way I understand it is that ultimately people exist in God, and so to pretend that you don´t is an illusion. Therefore disrespecting yourself by seeing your life as something trivial (and something you can just waste away) would be seen as a "sin".

I suppose the trouble is, on my journey I saw people from up close, sometimes even inside their home even though I was a stranger to them. And in Santiago I had conversations just like this one with people I never met before. But in the city you only see the shell people wear.

Buying items unnecessary is like grabbing for bizarre items when evacuating a house; raging and denying and focusing on blame- all quite normal. Unboxing on Amazon, not entirely different (to me) as doing reckless things to spit in the face of reality (but I know even more likely at it's core, people who really, really, don't know what to do).

It strikes me as some kind of deep confusion.

 

[Tinyflame]

I suppose @Gwaihir , you might be the only person someone meets who believes in something else existing. You definitely will be the only person they meet who is 'you'. So just be yourself; be open to what others teach you and share; and share what you feel too (if safe to do so). You think deeply, that is obvious.

Ultimately, I think, no matter what people believe or don't, and that can change too, and definitely should refine, no matter what they'll always remember how you made them feel. And vice versa. :)

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I know a lung transplant surgeon who says for 25+ years he holds his breath when around diesel fumes.

I tried this but I can´t recommend it. Not breathing will kill you faster than actually breathing O.o

 

[Tinyflame]

ETA @Gwaihir , just meant to say, as per:

It strikes me as some kind of deep confusion.

Yes. My dad had a saying, 'running wide open'. I assume he meant like a horse, unbridled, full out, but not necessarily with an end goal and without the sense or ability to stay safe in the moment.

The current situation has brought up lots for everyone. Different things of course, but they include not knowing what to do with one's self, feelings of isolation despite the greatest ever virtual capacity; clothes and homes and items that go unused since they are not needed, or put in context no one cares, no way to take a geography cure with travel, lack of communication even when people are now in the same house, homes that are not sanctuaries. Etc. Maybe forgetting (or now realizing) people may or may not be around, plans have scuts thrown in them, those who need aid may one day be you, and maybe there's aid, or there isn't; and all of the buying was meant (originally) to live life more fully, celebrate it and each other's presences.

:laugh: That ^^^ is hilarious. Well tbh he wasn't that great a dr despite his credentials. :laugh:

 

[Ronin]

@Gwaihir If it gifted you with a giant headache, then it was a good journey. :p

And I'd test the whole 'city people aren't like this' theory.

For 2 reasons minimum:

1. You might be surprised, once you start striking convos with people and act as you would elsewhere... they might react to it or show you a side of them not seen by you before.

2. Travelers aren't an isolated caste. They're often city people, who just went on the move. Or people who build small cities periodically. Or people home in any city. Or, or, or.

The who is around you may be more compatible with you than you think, once you start looking for it.

& : Now is not forever. :ninja:

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I think you misunderstood me.

I meant that if you DO NOT strike up conversations with people then you only get to know the exterior. I striked up conversations with people on the road whereas in the city I had never done that. Ergo, we make the same point.