Sexual Assault Realizing rape was planned

[EveHarrington]

I don't either but to get to forgiveness you have to accept that you can't change the past but you don't...

Oh, but wait, you weren’t the one traumatized.

HUUUUUUUGE difference.

I really don’t think your variety of forgiveness and a trauma survivors variety of forgiveness are the same. You were not traumatized and given PTSD.

It seems kind of preachy for you to “teach” us sufferers about forgiveness when you weren’t the one violated.

My 4 cents.

 

[deeplyloved]

Deeplyloved,
I've gotten a lot out of other posts besides yours but I'm going to have to single y...

Wow. I don’t think I can take any credit for this breakthrough, but I am so happy for you to have found it! I hope that this peace takes hold of your heart and sustains you through the occasional bumps of the healing journey. The way you have diligently worked on this, for the sake of your family and yourself, is admirable. What a lucky family you have...what a blessing you surely are to them!

 

[deeplyloved]

Oh, but wait, you weren’t the one traumatized.

HUUUUUUUGE difference.

I really don’t thin...

Maybe I’m wrong, but I got the impression he has only been talking about himself and trying to be helpful in sharing his own journey.

Forgiveness is tricky and complicated. I’m not sure there are formulas that can be applied to any person/situation. I don’t know.

For what it’s worth, I have not forgiven my abusers and rapists. I’m not sure I ever will. I am, however, always working on acceptance.

 

[deeplyloved]

I don’t consider acceptance and forgiveness as the same thing.

Yes, exactly. I agree.

 

[Hooper]

Oh, but wait, you weren’t the one traumatized.

HUUUUUUUGE difference.

I really don’t think your variety of forgiveness and a trauma survivors variety of forgiveness are the same. You were not traumatized and given PTSD.

It seems kind of preachy for you to “teach” us sufferers about forgiveness when you weren’t the one violated.

My 4 cents.

After living 48 years I've had my share of trauma. One theory of my therapist is I am never dealt with my traumatic childhood and channeled it through my wife. Did my trauma equal my wife's? I don''t know. I do know she has handled her traumas better than I have handled mine. Despite my and my wife's trauma I don't think either of us would have a diagnosis of PTSD. Whatever my diagnosis all I am trying to do is improve my quality of life by learning to deal with traumatic situations that have happened in my life. I don't come here to preach. I come to learn what works for other people, see if it would help me, help others if I can and when something does hit me share it so it can benefit others. I don't know what it would require to meet your definition of if I was traumatized. I can tell you this. My parents divorced when I was 10 (boo hoo) but it wasn't just any divorce. My Mom and her family had my father indicted over $39k from the family business that went in a joint account. At 13 I was nearly raped on vacation by a 50 year old man. Soon after I watched my father found guilty of embezzlement and sentenced to prison for 5 years at the state penitentiary where he would have been raped. It took a year and a half for my Dad to win on appeal. All of the criminal stuff was in the local newspaper in the capital city of the state I lived in. My brother left to live with friends in another state it was so bad. At 23 I got so sick I was told I had leukemia, hodgkins or the very off chance a rare virus attacked my red blood cell production. I got lucky and had the virus but I did have 4 days of thinking 50-50 chance of living. I obviously do not know you Eve but I can tell you this. If you were my wife and I loved you as much as I love my wife and I asked/you told me the details of your rape after 14 years of marriage it would traumatize the hell out of me (especially if it is what happened to my wife) despite the fact it did not happen to me. I don't know why but 2 Aprils ago when I found out it hit me harder than everything that has happened to me personally above. I don't know where I fit on your trauma scale but if what I post helps I've made the world a better place. If one of my posts comes across as preachy in no way was that my intent. I have benefited from this site, I have donated to this site and I have tried to benefit others on this site.
sincerely,
hooper

 

[Freida]

@Hooper I do appreciate what you are going for. It's just very hard to grasp on my side of the table
I
I also completely get what @EveHarrington is saying.

If you were my wife and I loved you as much as I love my wife and I asked/you told me the details of your rape after 14 years of marriage it would traumatize the hell out of me (especially if it is what happened to my wife) despite the fact it did not happen to me. I don't know why but 2 Aprils ago when I found out it hit me harder than ev

That is the double edged sword and why I have never told hubby anything other than: There was an assault. I don't want him to look at me and see that pathetic idiot who couldn't escape. (And yes supporters...I know I'm not supposed to do that :banghead:)

I can't wrap my mind around him being upset because it didn't happen to him. I mean...I guess he loves me and it might upset him sure...but upset him that much? why? I was the one who survived so why would he be angry or sad? It's just kind of hard to understand

That's PTSD It's hard for me...as a sufferer ..to understand that other people feel bad for me. Especially since I went decades being blamed. I just can't put myself in other people shoes when they feel bad for me. So it is truly confusing to read what you wrote about forgiveness when I still deny its a problem. Until I accept I can't forgive.

 

[Hooper]

I don't want him to look at me and see that pathetic idiot who couldn't escape. (And yes supporters...I know I'm not supposed to do that :banghead:)

I can't wrap my mind around him being upset because it didn't happen to him. I mean...I guess he loves me and it might upset him sure...but upset him that much? why? I was the one who survived so why would he be angry or sad? It's just kind of hard to understand

I don't know exactly what happened to you but I can tell you this. When you enter a situation that you think is one thing with a person and they have carefully planned what they choose to take from you you are not a pathetic idiot. The fact that you couldn't escape was by design. I know it did not happen to me and the reason it did upset me to the degree it did are complex and I may never understand why but I can tell you it did. I think a lot of it has to do with the shear injustice of it. I've spent over half of my life with various family members in some form of litigation against each other. My mom used the justice system to settle a score with my dad without regard to the effect it would have on her children. It damn near worked. My problem with rapists are many but the fact that well over 99% don't see a day in jail and the ones that do go to jail put their victims through yet another violation angers me greatly. Malicious premeditated assault of the person I love most and knowing he is walking around with no record or even a limp upsets me greatly. When I was nearly raped I blamed myself for putting myself in the position I did and didn't speak about it for over 20 years with the exception of talking to a gay teacher I was close to to find out what I did wrong. The answer was nothing. The man was a master manipulator. Looking back I'm amazed at how good he was at getting me from a safe public place to his condo. I'm just fortunate he took no for an answer but it took 20 or 30 no's. I guess the bottom line is when you hurt the people I love most you are hurting me to. I don't know if that clarifies things but it may give you some idea of how I got where I am today.

 

[deeplyloved]

I imagine this discussion hasn’t been easy for any participant. I want to say thank you for all the varied perspectives. I’ve learned a lot!

 

[EveHarrington]

After living 48 years I've had my share of trauma. One theory of my therapist is I am never dealt with...

All you say——immaterial to my point.

You forgiving your wife’s rapist isn’t even in the same universe as a rape victim forgiving their rapist.

It doesn’t matter that you were traumatized as a kid in this argument.

Even if you have transference, it’s not the same thing AND you are in denial by attaching your childhood issues to your wife’s rape situation. It’s a LOT easier to deny, deny, deny and go work on someone else’s issues while ignoring your own.

I still think you’re preachy. I mean I don’t go to cancer boards and tell cancer victims how to behave just because I know people who have had cancer.

And if you can’t understand my point by now, you’re never going to get it and I’ll just write your behavior off as insensitive.

And Hooper,
I have a feeling you are making this thread your own. This started as a thread about planned rape and now it’s about forgiveness? I think you may be drowning out the OP in all of this! It’s about HER planned rape, not you. I could understand this discussion if the thread was about forgiveness, but it seems to have gone off in a different direction. Is that being very sensitive to the very real struggles of a rape victim? Forcing your opinions on forgiveness?

 

[Hooper]

"You forgiving your wife’s rapist isn’t even in the same universe as a rape victim forgiving their rapist."
I agree with you 100% and not once did I say it was in the same universe. I will say my wife forgave her rapist and it helped her. I'm not trying to shove forgiveness down anyones throat but share what my misconceptions were about forgiveness and a post on acceptance allowed forgiveness to be a much more viable option for me since it did not mean I accepted what was done. I made progress, thanked the person who corrected my thinking on acceptance and shared what worked for me in my situation.

"It doesn’t matter that you were traumatized as a kid in this argument."
I am not here to argue. I am here to discuss. Like I said when I first came to this forum it was for selfish reasons. I needed relief. It was given generously and harshly at times but I was on the verge of doing something that put me and my family in jeopardy. I got that help here.

"Even if you have transference, it’s not the same thing AND you are in denial by attaching your childhood issues to your wife’s rape situation. It’s a LOT easier to deny, deny, deny and go work on someone else’s issues while ignoring your own."
I am as ignorant of your personal situation as you are to mine. I have been in therapy for almost 3 years in an effort to address my issues. It sure as hell hasn't been an effort to ignore them. My wife has handled her issues. I'm the one with a problem and I am making progress.

"I still think you’re preachy. I mean I don’t go to cancer boards and tell cancer victims how to behave just because I know people who have had cancer."
You may be right. I think you are a little bit preachy to. The truth of the matter is we probably have misunderstood each other and our intentions. I've reread my posts and having done so wouldn't change them. When I read what others write that has no relevance to my situation I skip over it or come back to it at a later date to see if I have made progress to the point I realize what was written has relevance to my situation. If anyone took my thoughts on forgiveness as something I thought they should do let me clear up right now that was not my intent. Whatever trauma or life problems you are dealing with do what works for you, if you don't mind share it and hopefully it benefits someone else.

"And if you can’t understand my point by now, you’re never going to get it and I’ll just write your behavior off as insensitive."
I don't but like I said above I reread my posts every so often to see if my point of view has changed. Being insensitive is not something I aspire to but I know for a fact I am frequently misunderstood.

"And Hooper,
I have a feeling you are making this thread your own. This started as a thread about planned rape and now it’s about forgiveness? I think you may be drowning out the OP in all of this! It’s about HER planned rape, not you. I could understand this discussion if the thread was about forgiveness, but it seems to have gone off in a different direction. Is that being very sensitive to the very real struggles of a rape victim? Forcing your opinions on forgiveness?"
13reasons if you feel like I have hijacked your thread I would like to apologize as well as thank you for writing it. In doing so I corrected a long held mistaken belief that has benefited me greatly. I have a slight case of ADD that makes me jump from one concept to another but it was truly significant in my situation. Everyone's situation is different. When you combine a good topic with different shared experiences I have found that to be a highly beneficial combination.
Eve if I have offended you I apologize and that was not my intent. I wish you the best. I can't help it but I feel misunderstood. I know I have read your posts in past threads and benefited from them. Sorry I couldn't reciprocate with my posts.

 

[lookingfor help]

I felt a new level of disgust and hurt when I read that r*pe is premeditated. I was so used to that thinking that it was something lustful, where the perpetrator just can't control themselves and needs you in that moment. But r*pe itself is a control thing. It took me many times over going through my ordeal, acknowledging how I had resisted and said "no", and how he had chosen to ignore that to realise he chose to not hear me because he wanted what he came for. It's hard to convince yourself of that, because we know that we could never do that someone else, and that decent human being should never be capable of something like that. But sometimes there is no seeing the best in people, because they are what they are: a r*pist. That's evil we could have never prevented or seen coming because at the end of the day they were entirely in control of what they did. I'm sorry. At least now there's excusing what they did, and giving them the benefit of the doubt. They deserve all that blame.

 

[13ReasonsWhyNot]

I felt a new level of disgust and hurt when I read that r*pe is premeditated. I was so used to...

YES! It's a bitter pill to swallow, for sure. It just makes it that much more sinister, especially if you saw it as a misunderstanding or something that happened in the moment. After defining it that way, the realization that it was a premeditated setup is extra shocking. And you're right-it's hard to wrap your mind around it because it would never be something you would even think of doing to someone else, much less actually do it. I'm so sorry you went through that. Being ignored when you are saying no is just wrong.

Since I posted the original post, I talked to a friend who was with me earlier that day, and she remembered quite a bit. I found out there was one more time where he made a decision to proceed with that plan of his, so that's six things he did intentionally leading up to the rape. There's no way it wasn't planned. It's so gross and it makes me feel worse. There's nothing empowering about realizing you were a target all along.